F
J
Jim Stewart
Fuzzy said:
The cutaway picture is interesting. I see...
4 valves per cylinder, separate exhaust and
intake camshafts, possibly with roller followers,
one timing chain, *massive* connecting rods,
nearly full skirted pistons, gear driven injection
pump, and a good sized turbo and intercooler
B
bigjim
I like the timing chain- no more rip off $600 belt changes!!!!!!!!
Hope this comes to market.
Hope this comes to market.
B
bigjim
I like the timing chain- no more rip off $600 belt changes!!!!!!!!
Hope this comes to market.
Hope this comes to market.
G
Guest
Like chains last forever? They may not have a defined service life but
they do wear out and are more expensive initially and more expensive to
replace.
Don't know why they went to chain except perhaps with higher compression
the engine is 'interfering' and chain is less likely to snap resulting in
severe engine damage..
I'm also not sure how they managed to find room for the turbo under the
engine. If there is that much space why isn't the engine mounted lower
instead to further lower the CoG, the oft claimed benefit of the boxer
engine.
--
B
bigjim
Chains may not last "forever" but how many of us have ever heard of a
stock V-8 having a timing chain go in normal use? Yes after 2 or 300k
miles the chain may stretch or fail. The belts are a forced
maintenance item with no benefit except to mechanics who change them!!!
Given a choice I'll take a chain over a belt any time.
stock V-8 having a timing chain go in normal use? Yes after 2 or 300k
miles the chain may stretch or fail. The belts are a forced
maintenance item with no benefit except to mechanics who change them!!!
Given a choice I'll take a chain over a belt any time.
S
Some O
Fuzzy Logic said:
Now if only they would put a frame around the door glass
I would get a Subaru.
This surprising cheapness of design is unacceptable to me.
I've owned cars with this poor design, but never again.
M
M.J.
Surprisingly, there aren't many complaints about this issue
here. Maybe Subaru frameless door windows are better in
some way than others (?), or perhaps Subaru owners are
more foregiving.
I don't know.
My '00 Impreza has so far not given me any problems whatesoever
in this compartment.
M.J.
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
Some said:
The Tribeca got frames and recent spy photos of what is assumed to be
the '08 Impreza body has them.
Other than some legacies/outbacks having a wind noise issue that is
fairly easy to correct, I don't recall too many issues with the
frameless windows. People sometimes complain the motors are slow. And
they still get superior crash test ratings as well as anecdotal stories
of rollovers, etc. with minimal occupant injury.
Still, you might get your wish soon, looks like.
Carl
A
alf
Some said:
Now if only they would get rid of a frame around the door glass
I would get a Tribeca
M
Mickey
.....
You're talking apples Vs oranges. They are NOT the same
kind of chains. Old V-8's have a wide chain called a silent
chain and the typ timing chain use on modern OHC engine is a
single width roller chain like on would find on some smaller
motorcycles. These don't last an awful lot longer than a belt.
Son's Toyota chain was so bad when he changed it, it had
almost worn a hole in the cast chain cover from all the
slap. Think the motor had about 180-200k miles. It was so
noisy it should have been changed a lot sooner. Also a lot
harder to do than a belt as the chain has to run internal
for oiling, and not external like a belt.
I bet the reason this new engine uses a chain is the same
reason the H6 uses a chain, not room for the wider belt.
Mickey
E
Edward Hayes
A chain if designed correctly like on my previous Saabs will last the
life of the engine or about 400,000 miles. Saabs roller chain, running
in oil were like new when I sold my vehicles at 179 & 264,000 miles
respectively. Subaru uses a roller chain on their top-of-the-line
engine i.e. 6 engine. What else is there to say? Belts are quiter but,
the hum of a roller chain is like music to me. The belts take less
power, they say but, I'll give up one hp for not needing a $500 belt
change on a young engine (105K miles).
life of the engine or about 400,000 miles. Saabs roller chain, running
in oil were like new when I sold my vehicles at 179 & 264,000 miles
respectively. Subaru uses a roller chain on their top-of-the-line
engine i.e. 6 engine. What else is there to say? Belts are quiter but,
the hum of a roller chain is like music to me. The belts take less
power, they say but, I'll give up one hp for not needing a $500 belt
change on a young engine (105K miles).
T
The Other Dave
You come to appreciate the frameless windows when you park in a very narrow
garage. With the window left down, entry/exit from the car is much, much
easier than maneuvering around the window frame.
garage. With the window left down, entry/exit from the car is much, much
easier than maneuvering around the window frame.
Q
QX
On an earlier car (97 Plymouth Neon), I was having chronic trouble
with the frameless window alignment. The service tech explained that
the problem was closing the door by pushing on the glass. Once I
stopped doing that, my glass alignment problems stopped.
I just carried that lesson to my Forester, and have no problems with
wind noise, leaks, etc.
R
Rick Courtright
Hi,
Agreed!
I noticed something when the announcement was made about Subie and
Toyota cooperating on a "Yaris based" model for European sales that
Toyota's gone back to a chain on the regular Yaris. Maybe mfrs are
coming around?
I've NEVER been a fan of t-belts, though on a simple straight 4 like the
first water-cooled VWs where one could change one in a half hour or
less, I guess they were "acceptable." I've yet to have ANY trouble with
a straight gear driven system (VW flat fours) or chain system (various
engine designs.) I only had to be stranded by the side of the road w/ a
broken t-belt ONCE to be "permanently scarred" and that was w/ a
non-interference engine. And IMNSHO any engineer who designs an
interference engine w/ a belt should be taken out in the town square and
shot in public! (And I'm being nice: some I know have suggested hanging
by certain delicate body parts...)
Maybe someone's heard our thoughts and that's why the diesel uses a
chain?
Rick
R
Rick Courtright
Mickey said:
Hi,
Sorry, my experience doesn't support that statement!
Don't know what Toyota your son owns, but if it was "noisy" for a long
time, and he did nothing about it, the design's not at fault.
Then he's at a mileage that would represent 2, 3, or even 4 belt
changes, depending on model. At maybe $500 apiece (considering most
owners probably have a dealer do the work), we're talking $1000 to $2000
worth of "maintenance" costs. What did it cost to replace the chain?
(For a parts only comparison: a new chain and sprockets for my Toy truck
can be had for a little LESS than the two OEM belts for my ol' Subie.
Add the belt idlers and tensioners, and I could buy another chain and
sprocket set!) Folks taking their car to the mechanic/dealer will lose a
day each time the belt's changed, so 2-4 days are lost. How many days
did it take to replace the chain? One? And did the chain actually break
at any time in that 180-200k miles, stranding him on the side of the
road? I'll bet my quarter there are VERY FEW belts that get that far w/o
breaking.
We won't even go into the ubiquitous leaking cam seals on belt driven
engines...
All in all, my vote's for a chain!
Rick
B
bigjim
So the chain went at 180-200k miles? Big deal. At that point I'd just
buy a new car. The $1200 I saved on timing belt changes can go to down
payment!!!! The saving are even greater on an engine that requires 60k
belt changes.
buy a new car. The $1200 I saved on timing belt changes can go to down
payment!!!! The saving are even greater on an engine that requires 60k
belt changes.