What *was* that burning smell...?

[BD]

Hey all..

Recently did a trip with my 02 WRX Wagon (Manual), and had a kind of
an odd circumstance.

Here's the setup:

4-hour trip, lots of windy roads through the mountains - lots of ups
and downs. (Headed to Long Beach on Vancouver Island, fwiw).

My 'strategy' for dealing with tight-ish corners on downslopes is to
not go particularly fast, but fast enough to be in 3rd when entering
the curve. I'll apply brakes gently, put the car in Neutral, spin up
the revs to about 3500, and put it into 2nd with the revs matched, or
close to it. I'll release the clutch gently, and use the brakes
combined with the motor to slow the car through the apex of the
corner. I generally don't double-clutch in this scenario.

Then, after coming out of the corner, I'll accelerate away in second.

Seems like a pretty conservative technique - the hope is to use the
rev-matching to avoid wear on the synchros, and on the clutch.

Anyway. On two occasions, I swear I smelled something bad - something
overheating somewhere. And it was *right* after spinning up the tranny
to 3500 or so when I was putting it into second. I'd just be entering
the corner at this point. And a couple of seconds later, the smell
would be gone.

What could this be? Am I abusing the transmission by putting more load
on it than I should (for slowing the vehicle down)? Or is this a
sensible technique?

I'm taking the car in for a 60,000 km servicing next week - anything I
should ask them to look at particularly closely?

Thanks!

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Hey all..

Recently did a trip with my 02 WRX Wagon (Manual), and had a kind of
an odd circumstance.

Here's the setup:

4-hour trip, lots of windy roads through the mountains - lots of ups
and downs. (Headed to Long Beach on Vancouver Island, fwiw).

My 'strategy' for dealing with tight-ish corners on downslopes is to
not go particularly fast, but fast enough to be in 3rd when entering
the curve. I'll apply brakes gently, put the car in Neutral, spin up
the revs to about 3500, and put it into 2nd with the revs matched, or
close to it. I'll release the clutch gently, and use the brakes
combined with the motor to slow the car through the apex of the
corner. I generally don't double-clutch in this scenario.

Then, after coming out of the corner, I'll accelerate away in second.

Seems like a pretty conservative technique - the hope is to use the
rev-matching to avoid wear on the synchros, and on the clutch.

Anyway. On two occasions, I swear I smelled something bad - something
overheating somewhere. And it was *right* after spinning up the tranny
to 3500 or so when I was putting it into second. I'd just be entering
the corner at this point. And a couple of seconds later, the smell
would be gone.

What could this be? Am I abusing the transmission by putting more load
on it than I should (for slowing the vehicle down)? Or is this a
sensible technique?

I'm taking the car in for a 60,000 km servicing next week - anything I
should ask them to look at particularly closely?

Thanks!

Perhaps the clutch is not disengaging completely. It may be slightly out
of adjustment or, maybe, you're not getting completely to the floor.
Soob clutch materal is VERY smelly and it doesn't take much slippage to
get the stink.

I dunno

Carl

 

[AS]

Have you checked the front axle CVJ boots for grease leaks?

 

[BD]

Perhaps the clutch is not disengaging completely. It may be slightly out
of adjustment or, maybe, you're not getting completely to the floor.
Soob clutch materal is VERY smelly and it doesn't take much slippage to
get the stink.

I dunno

Carl

Yeah, it's tough to get a clear idea when it only happened for a
couple of seconds, on only two occasions.

Oh well. I won't bother asking for the dealers' opinion - they've
given me very little indication of being even *interested* in solving
a problem whose cause isn't blatantly obvious.

Thanks for the thought - I'll mention the clutch to the dealer, see if
they can check into it.

 

[BD]

Have you checked the front axle CVJ boots for grease leaks?

Hmm. 60,000 km seems a little early for that - but I guess
everything's worth checking. Thanks!

 

[David]

My 'strategy' for dealing with tight-ish corners on downslopes is to
not go particularly fast, but fast enough to be in 3rd when entering
the curve. I'll apply brakes gently, put the car in Neutral, spin up
the revs to about 3500, and put it into 2nd with the revs matched, or
close to it. I'll release the clutch gently, and use the brakes
combined with the motor to slow the car through the apex of the
corner. I generally don't double-clutch in this scenario.

''Release the clutch gently'' sounds a lot like you're slipping the
clutch. Brake pads are cheap and easy, the clutch-not so much.

 

[BD]

''Release the clutch gently'' sounds a lot like you're slipping the
clutch. Brake pads are cheap and easy, the clutch-not so much.

Not really - I push the clutch in just as quickly as any other
circumstance, blip to rev-match, and then lift off the clutch pedal,
pausing briefly about halfway to make sure I'm at the proper revs.

Thing is, the odor I detected was *definitely* when my foot was all
the way in. I've been driving this car for 5 years, so I know how
touchy (read: weak) the clutch in this car is. The chronology was
something like: 3rd gear, slowing with brake; clutch in, go to neutral
(clutch stays in, not double-clutching here); blip to 3500, with heel-
toe braking, to match revs for second ((**odor detected**)); pop into
second, gently release clutch ((**odor dissipates**)); continue to
slow around the corner, then apply throttle in second.

Had I been slipping the clutch, I expect I'd have smelled something
later.

Besides. It didn't really smell like clutch. I learned *that* smell
all too well, trying to back up an upwards incline some years ago to
get out of a driveway and into traffic. **YUCK.** When I go visiting
those particular folks now, I back into their driveway, so I can just
pull out in first.

 

[Clive - Selectron]

If it smells like rotten fish it's likely to be the clutch.
Is your car one that suffered from the well-known
2002 clutch judder problem?
I had that problem (Wife...'How much did you pay for this car?')
A new clutch and heavier flywheel fitted under warranty
cured the judder and the occasional horrible pong.
I saw my old assembly...the flywheel was
cracked and blue due to excessive heating under
normal use...no boy racer stuff.
I have to say that double de-clutching on a modern gearbox
is totally unnecessary...the syncro works just fine...and you are
using the clutch twice as much as you need...which may be
part of the problem.
As already pointed out, brake pads are way cheaper than clutches.
Just my 2 English pence worth.

--
Clive P Norris
Managing Director
Selectron (UK) Ltd
Musical Equipment Distribution.
www.skullstrings.com
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.coreoneproduct.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.espshop.co.uk

 

[BD]

If it smells like rotten fish it's likely to be the clutch.

If it smells like rotten fish it's likely to be the clutch.

Couple of points:

-I am now on my FOURTH clutch on this car. First one had the shudder
problem, its replacement (I got it swapped out for a heavier one,
likely under the same service notification that you did) suffered a
failed bearing and gave out completely (after a week of normal
commuter use)... the next one exhibited a very strange resonance which
baffled the mechanics for a week, and the 4th one seems to be lasting
fine. Only weird symptom is a very slight roughness when depressing
the pedal - which appears to vary depending on rpms of the motor at
the time. Probably some imperfection in the bearings, but this symptom
is very minor, and was there from the instant this clutch was
installed

-I am not double-clutching on this maneuver, as I mentioned earlier. I
*do* double-clutch, but only when I am slowing to below 20km/h, and
need to get into first gear to accelerate. The only viable options for
me to get into first gear from second at low speeds are to a) double-
clutch, b) push the shifter in to 'force' the synchros to spin up -
which does work, but it just takes too much time and cannot be healthy
on the hardware, and c) come to a FULL STOP. The first gear synchros
in this transmission are an embarassment. This has been pretty well
documented in the driver community.

Seems the first-gear synchro issue has been remedied by implementing
'dual-cone' synchros in more recent transmissions. Some users have
also seen benefit in the behavior of 1st gear, from using a specific
brand of synthetic tranny fluid.

In fact - the whole synchro issue is so rampant that one guy on the
NASIOC forums made a really excellent FAQ about it - including
specific techniques for heel-toeing and double-clutching into first.
It's a good read.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=587096

Granted, I'm only addressing the second-gear synchros in my particular
rambling, and they appear to work fine. But your claim that the
synchro works fine shouldn't be taken universally, and should really
be balanced off with a specific discussion about this particular
tranny.


Cheers,

BD

 

[Clive]

Couple of points:

-I am now on my FOURTH clutch on this car. First one had the shudder
problem, its replacement (I got it swapped out for a heavier one,
likely under the same service notification that you did) suffered a
failed bearing and gave out completely (after a week of normal
commuter use)... the next one exhibited a very strange resonance which
baffled the mechanics for a week, and the 4th one seems to be lasting
fine. Only weird symptom is a very slight roughness when depressing
the pedal - which appears to vary depending on rpms of the motor at
the time. Probably some imperfection in the bearings, but this symptom
is very minor, and was there from the instant this clutch was
installed
SNIP FOR BREVITY<

I can only speak from personal experience.
Selecting first on the move with the original
clutch/flywheel when cold was a occasional
problem...the terrible clutch judder was the
big problem.

Since I had the new bits fitted the transmission
is as smooth as silk with no gear selection problems.
Your current symptoms really do point towards
the clutch running out of true as in the original
problem...smell, roughness etc. The first gear
selection difficulty could well be due to clutch drag
due to warping and causing an overheat.
Are you sure the current unit is the heavier flywheel/
clutch and not the original spec lighter unit?
I honestly think you still have a clutch problem.

Transmission problems are not an issue in the UK
it seems apart from the known '02 clutch/flywheel
issue now history.
Good luck.
-C-