Subaru Dealer Bait-and-Switch

[Victor Roberts]

We did all our shopping online, and through the Subaru Web site I could
see which dealers had the Forester we wanted in stock and in which
color and with which accessories. I then got email quotes from the ones
who had what we wanted.

This can take all the fun out of buying a car When I
bought my 97 OBW and perhaps even the 2002 Passat, buyers
could not get a firm quote unless they went to a dealer with
a specific model and accessories in mind and were "ready to
buy".

We wanted a 5 spd with premium package so there
weren't that many to choose from. You still get some shenanigans this
way as one dealer didn't include the delivery fee--he said his
customers like to see all the extra fees broken out so he didn't
include it in the quote. We ended up going to the dealer who had the
car we wanted in the color we wanted, but we brought the email quotes
from the other dealers and showed him the lowest quote. There was some
of the "how can they stay in business selling cars that low!" etc.
moaning and groaning but they eventually came down to within a couple
hundred dollars of the lowest quote (which wasn't in the color we
wanted anyway and was a considerably further drive away). Since they
also gave us quite a bit more than we expected for our trade-in, and
waived the installation fee on the couple of accessories we wanted, we
thought we got a satisfactory deal.

Even before the price switch I was upset that the salesman
said I would have to pay MSRP for the trailer hitch plus a
$160 installation fee, which I thought was rather excessive
- especially after he said during the test drive that he
would be willing to "come down a bit" on the
dealer-installed accessories.

I am surprised this dealer let you walk away. Often that's enough to
bring the sales manager out to offer you a better deal.

Well, I did tell the two salesmen that since they tried to
bait-and-switch me I wasn't interested in buying a car from
them any more even if they gave me the price they had
originally quoted. (I will pay another dealer a higher,
more reasonable price, but will not pay that higher price to
them!) Since they were clearly not going to give me that
price they had nothing left to negotiate with and I'm not
surprised they let me walk.

 

[Mark W]

I have to tell my story of a bait and switch. I used cars.com and did
searches in the area I live in. It came back with 3 '06 Foresters.
They were all listed as 25 miles on them and as well a amazingly good
price for a new Forester.
Well at that time I was looking mainly at used, 03 to 05 Foresters. I
have been seeing these anywhere from $15K to $20K with mileage
matching their age. Well I told her of course what I was looking for
and of course like most dealers she tried to ask how much I wanted to
pay. I know then she would want to put me into something matching
that. When I told her $15K she started talking about '99 Foresters.
Then I told her I'd rather just pay whatever matches the type of car.
I would go with fully loaded, maybe basic, maybe 03, maybe 05. The
point is I would do a Kelley Blue Book and whatever that car is worth
pay it. It all was about what i felt was a good value.
Well I finally asked what she thought she could get a 03 to 05
Forester for used and she said about $19-$21K. To me that sounded
outrageous. Now understand when I called on this It turned out the
lady was a auto broker and invited me to her office for a interview to
find out about what i wanted. They were in office with barely a
parking lot so it was obvious those 3 Foresters she had advertised
were not there. She asked me about financing and basically I told her
I wasn't going to lease (which she wanted me to) and as well was not
going to finance but would pay cash. She kind of made a funny face
and I know it's because she wouldn't make as much. She explained how
with financing the banks pay her her fee but since I'm not financing
she wouldn't make that money and woudl charge me a $250 fee. I knew
someone that went with a auto broker and I know that's normal and have
no problem with that if she finds the car at the right price.
The thing is the more she talked about how she finds cars it just
didn't sound like she knew what she was doing. I have heard of them
sending people to auctions and she talked about all these ways she
could find cars, such as ebay motors. The thing is everything she was
telling me is stuff I could easily do on my own without the $250 fee.
What upset me is with the prices she mentioned they were as high as
the 06 Foresters she advertised. I finally asked her where they are,
I'd like to look at them and she said "They aren't here. They are at
Subaru dealers." I asked which one but she wouldn't say. The thing
is she did talk like she goes to dealers also to find good prices and
get them without the fees and negotiates for you. My and my fiancee
who was with me both agreed, those cars don't exist. I think they
were simply like a bait and switch, put in the ad to make you call and
then find out it's a auto broker who calls you in. They were simply
too good to be true.
It turned out when I left she gave me a application to fill out sayign
how she works hard on this so needs this filled out first. it wasn't a
committment of any type. I didn't want that becuase I was scared I'd
leave and find a good deal and am committed to buying from her. What
it was is simply a financial application. The thing is if I'm paying
cash why does she need that. I simply took it home and didn't fill it
out. She called twice the next day but I was gone so she left a msg.
I thought she' d forget about me but called the following Monday
saying she was going to a auction Tuesday and a Forester was there.
She didn't give many details on the msg. so I called her back. Well
she didn't even seem interested in talking. I asked about which model
it was. All she knew was 03, nothing else about it. I told her I'd
need to know more and she just wasn't that helpful and just said "Well
call me back sometime tommorrow. I can tell you then." Well I did
call her once but she wasn't in and she never called me back. Any
good salesperson even without me calling would have just said "I'll
get the information to you and call you back." I don't know if she was
just unprofessional or more likely, maybe she felt I was less money
than the people going with financing that it was no reason to work
hard for it. The thing is I am still in the market and likely buying
a new '06 now but I could have worked with her. I haven't heard back
from her in the last two weeks though but the fact it was that bait
and switch at the beginning just makes me question ethics anyway.

 

[BrianW]

The dealer is trying to locate the car I want from an another dealer's
stock (I'm looking for a base OBW SE with no options, and they all seem
to have extras on them like the "auto dimming mirror-compass" and
whatnot).

I do have a final price, assuming he can find the car I want. The
problem is that the base SE doesn't seem to be readily available, (I
even called Subaru NA to have them check inventory), so I may have to
spring for a few extras that I'm not necessarily interested in.

 

[Victor Roberts]

The dealer is trying to locate the car I want from an another dealer's
stock (I'm looking for a base OBW SE with no options, and they all seem
to have extras on them like the "auto dimming mirror-compass" and
whatnot).

I do have a final price, assuming he can find the car I want. The
problem is that the base SE doesn't seem to be readily available, (I
even called Subaru NA to have them check inventory), so I may have to
spring for a few extras that I'm not necessarily interested in.

I didn't fined any Forester Premiums that did not have the
auto dimming mirror, and most had "rub strips" on the roof
that I also don't need. One interesting fact is that one
Forester on the lot had the old non-auto-dimming mirror
still in the back. That can mean only one thing, that the
auto-dimming mirror was NOT a factory-installed option. In
fact it seems like it was installed at the dealership. Why
else would the old mirror still be in the car? Do dealers
have the capability of creating a new "factory" sticker
that lists stuff they added to the car?

 

[Ken Finney]

I have to tell my story of a bait and switch. I used cars.com and did
searches in the area I live in. It came back with 3 '06 Foresters.
They were all listed as 25 miles on them and as well a amazingly good
price for a new Forester.

< big snip>

The last time I was shoping for a used car at a sales lot, I was wandering
through the lot and a sales droid came over and asked how much I wanted to
finance. I told him nothing, that I had cash to buy anything I was
interested in. He then asked which one I was going to take. I told him I
was just looking and hadn't decided yet. He then asked me to just give him
the cash, and when I decided, I could come back can get that vehicle. I
don't think I've ever left a lot faster in my life!

 

[Edward Hayes]

Sounds like it worked before with a drunk so why not try any & all
comers.

 

[Mark W]

Probably the reason they get by with it is people do fall for these
type of tactics. It's hard to believe. Even in my case I asked the
lady on the phone before I went in if these cars are where I could see
them. If they were new, if that was the actual mileage, etc. and she
said yes to all. It's obvious it was a bait and switch.

 

[yngver]

This can take all the fun out of buying a car When I
bought my 97 OBW and perhaps even the 2002 Passat, buyers
could not get a firm quote unless they went to a dealer with
a specific model and accessories in mind and were "ready to
buy".

Well, these days of course so many people shop online the dealers have
to give you quotes. Usually they have an Internet sales manager who
handles those. With our 96 Civic we did have to go from dealer to
dealer and ask for quotes, and many of them would of course say to come
back when we got quotes from other dealers and they would beat them.
But even with Internet quotes, I assumed that at least one of the
dealers was low-balling, since his quote was so much lower than anyone
else's and he didn't have the car on the lot (but said he could get
whatever we wanted.)

Even before the price switch I was upset that the salesman
said I would have to pay MSRP for the trailer hitch plus a
$160 installation fee, which I thought was rather excessive
- especially after he said during the test drive that he
would be willing to "come down a bit" on the
dealer-installed accessories.

They can come down some on the dealer-installed accessories--they don't
pay MSRP of course. We did have to do a lot of arguing about the
installation fees because the salesman said he had no control over the
service dept. fees. We had the splash guards, bumper cover, and side
moldings installed--easy jobs and I suppose if we had to, we could have
installed these ourselves.

Well, I did tell the two salesmen that since they tried to
bait-and-switch me I wasn't interested in buying a car from
them any more even if they gave me the price they had
originally quoted. (I will pay another dealer a higher,
more reasonable price, but will not pay that higher price to
them!) Since they were clearly not going to give me that
price they had nothing left to negotiate with and I'm not
surprised they let me walk.

Walking out is a negotiating tactic like everything else. Many dealers
will try to make a better deal if you do get up to walk out. In this
case they obviously knew they had lost the sale and there was nothing
left to negotiate. I agree, I wouldn't go back to them but it doesn't
take much for me to walk away from a dealer. That's why this time we
only went to the dealers' lots to test drive the models we were
interested in, and when it came down to buying did as much of it online
as possible. We also got a loan pre-approved by our credit union, so
that when it came to financing we were able to tell them we would only
finance with the dealer if he gave us a better deal than the credit
union (again, usually they will).

I was also pleasantly surprised this time around that there was little
pressure to buy the extended warranty (well, the finance manager did
show us his own warranty to prove that he thinks it's a deal), or
undercoating, etc. Last time we bought, the finance manager tried to
tell us that our loan wouldn't be approved for the special rate the
manufacturer was offering if we didn't buy the extended warranty (not
true, of course.)
--yngver

 

[Victor Roberts]

They can come down some on the dealer-installed accessories--they don't
pay MSRP of course. We did have to do a lot of arguing about the
installation fees because the salesman said he had no control over the
service dept. fees. We had the splash guards, bumper cover, and side
moldings installed--easy jobs and I suppose if we had to, we could have
installed these ourselves.

Side moldings? Are there side molding available for the
Forester, or were you referring to your Honda? This is one
accessory I would like to have that seems to not be offered.

As for the trailer hitch, I have since looked at aftermarket
hitches, specifically DrawTite. They have a very nice
Forester hitch for about $140 with drawbar and wiring
harness and they say it is a bolt-on installation that can
be done in about 50 minutes by an ordinary person. This
certainly makes me wonder about the 2-hour labor charge at
$80 per hour quoted by the dealer.

And yes, the salesman talked about the service department as
if it was a different company that just happened to be
located in the same building

 

[Sheldon]

I live in southern Saratoga County, New York, between the
cities of Albany, Schenectady, Troy and Saratoga Springs.
The story below is true, but I am not going to mention the
name of the dealer to hopefully avoid a lawsuit.

I've been looking for a replacement for my 97 OBW and
decided that I might want to try a Forester. During the
weekend before last I test drove a Forester 2.5X manual with
Premium Package and it was very nice.

During that test drive I commented on the fact that the
"incentive" for the X was $2000 while the "inventive" for
the X with Premium Package was only $1000, raising the
differential for the Premium Package from $2350 to a rather
high $3350. The salesman, who was in the car with me, then
said that his dealership had a promotion until March 31 that
was $3000 off the MSRP of all Foresters. (The discount
includes the factory incentive - be it $1000 or $2000.) I
told him this was quite good, especially for the X with
Premium since the incentive for the X with Premium was $1000
less than for the basic X. The color I wanted was not in
stock at this dealership, but the salesman said they could
get the car in my color from another dealer. No discussion
of a higher price. My son was in the car with us and heard
this whole discussion.

After I got home I looked at the numbers and they were very
good - in fact too good to believe. For example, using only
the basic car and delivery, the MSRP for a 2.5X with Premium
Package would be $24,770. My data shows that the invoice
for this same car would be $23,194, yet the salesman was
offering me this hypothetical car for $21,770, which is $424
below invoice when the $1000 incentive is taken into
account.

I've been able to purchase cars for close to the invoice
price, but never below invoice. This price is also lower
than any I have seen discussed here for the same car. So
this was either one very good deal or a scam.

The dealer called last Friday and said he found the car in
my color at another local dealer and could have it one day
after I signed the paperwork. He asked for a $100 deposit
over the phone to "hold" the car, but he did not yet know
what accessories were already on the car and could not give
me the MSRP that would be the basis for the $3000 discount.
I was also not quite ready yet to buy.

Last Saturday I visited another dealer to see what his best
price was. He said there was no way he could come close to
the price of dealer #1.

Over the weekend I decided to buy the car. I suspected that
the deal was too good to be true, but would not be able to
tell until I tried to buy the car for that price. I was
planning to visit dealer #1 today to close the deal when the
salesman called to say that the dealer he was getting the
car from had another customer for that car so I would have
to make a decision today or risk losing the car. (Probably a
lie in light of events yet to unfold.) I told him I would be
right down. He gave me the list of accessories and the MSRP
for the car he located and asked again if was sure that I
wanted the car. I said yes, pending my final price. He was
quite taken aback, since he said "the price is as we
discussed" which could only mean $3000 below MSRP with no
additional negotiation on my part. I was unwilling to
commit to the purchase until I saw the price on a contract,
but did not state this at the time. I mentioned only the
fact that I wanted to add a few dealer-installed accessories
and he had said during the first test drive that he might be
able to negotiate some on those. (This was true on my part.)
I took my check book, calculator and accessory price lists
and headed down to the dealer.

I took another test drive, this time in an XT automatic
since the X manual I drove 10 days ago did not appear to be
on the lot. Because of all the discussion here I wanted to
check out the automatic climate control, and I assumed the
XT and the X have the same climate control system. Based on
my short test drive the automatic climate control is OK.
More about that in another note.

We sat down at his desk. he told me the MSRP of "my" car was
$25,252 with the few accessories it had, and my price would
be $22,252. When I asked if he knew the sales tax rate
where I lived (it varies by county and we get charged by
where we live not by where we buy the car) he disappeared
and came back to ask if I was going to finance the car or
pay cash. I said cash and he disappeared again.

When he came back he had another salesman with him. I
thought salesman #2 was going to try to sell me financing,
as happened the last time I purchased a car at another
dealership. But, as soon as salesman #2 said "you know the
discount is UP TO $3000" I knew the deal was off. He stared
telling me about the fact that the incentive for the X with
Premium Package was $1000 less than the incentive for the X
and that he also had to charge more because the car was not
on his lot. I explained to him that the salesman had told
me the discount was $3000 for all Foresters even though the
incentive was different for different models, and when he
offered to find a car in the color I wanted he did not
mention a higher price for this service, and told salesman
#2 the my son had heard the whole discussion between me and
salesman #1. No matter, he told me how much money he would
lose if he sold me the car at the price I expected, and I
told him that not only was I NOT going to pay the higher
price but the deal was off even if he WAS willing to give me
the original price.

Now - do I keep my 97 OBW or continue looking for a new
Forester? I really do like my old OBW.

My God! I can't believe it! A dishonest car salesperson. I've never heard
of such a thing. <LOL>

I once took my girlfriend to "look" at Ford trucks. She really wanted a
truck. Anyway, the salesperson gives us a price, and he says we should
write up a contract -- just in case she decides to go for it -- and the
paperwork will mostly be done with. While I'm sitting there he pushes a
contract in front of her and tells her to sign it. I take one look, and I'm
no attorney, and realize that if she signs this contract she's just bought a
car. I told him to write into the contract that she could cancel at any
time, and after a lot of stalling he finally wrote that in. I couldn't
believe a salesperson would do something like that. Interestingly, there's
no way she could qualify for a loan.

Furthermore, there's dealer's invoice and there's dealer's invoice. They
can show you whatever they want, and you may look up what the dealer pays,
but you never really know what the dealer actually paid for the car. People
who claim they paid $100 over dealer invoice either bought a car the dealer
has been trying to get rid of, or they are buying from a dealer that will
soon be out of business.

Good luck in your search for a new Forester, but meanwhile you still have
what I assume is a great reliable car. I've got a 97 OB.

 

[Bugalugs]

Side moldings? Are there side molding available for the
Forester, or were you referring to your Honda? This is one
accessory I would like to have that seems to not be offered.

As for the trailer hitch, I have since looked at aftermarket
hitches, specifically DrawTite. They have a very nice
Forester hitch for about $140 with drawbar and wiring
harness and they say it is a bolt-on installation that can
be done in about 50 minutes by an ordinary person. This
certainly makes me wonder about the 2-hour labor charge at
$80 per hour quoted by the dealer.

If your mechanic cannot fit a trailer hitch in less than 30 minutes then
go elsewhere. Hell, I fitted mine in about 40 minutes and I'm not in
that business at all.

(maybe he was going to open the job card and then drive across town to
pick it up)

 

[Edward Hayes]

One hour seems reasonable when you drive car from the lot to the
stall, lift car, install hitch, connect electrical plug, lower car,
check tail & brake lights, return car to lot and fill out some paper
work.

 

[Victor Roberts]

One hour seems reasonable when you drive car from the lot to the
stall, lift car, install hitch, connect electrical plug, lower car,
check tail & brake lights, return car to lot and fill out some paper
work.

But he was going to charge me 2 hours - plus the car would
already be in the shop being prepped for delivery and having
the block heater installed.

 

[Edward Hayes]

What I said Victor: One hour is reasonable. Not two !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One hour seems reasonable when you drive car from the lot to the
stall, lift car, install hitch, connect electrical plug, lower car,
check tail & brake lights, return car to lot and fill out some paper
work.

But he was going to charge me 2 hours - plus the car would
already be in the shop being prepped for delivery and having
the block heater installed.

 

[yngver]

Side moldings? Are there side molding available for the
Forester, or were you referring to your Honda? This is one
accessory I would like to have that seems to not be offered.

Sorry, I meant the bumper side moldings--they go on each side, back and
front. They aren't much but are better than nothing. I wish they did
have side moldings for the Forester! My husband's Legacy has them, but
there's nothing for the Forester to protect the sides from dings. Or
nothing that I know of. Those cheap plastic door guards won't even fit
in the right place.

As for the trailer hitch, I have since looked at aftermarket
hitches, specifically DrawTite. They have a very nice
Forester hitch for about $140 with drawbar and wiring
harness and they say it is a bolt-on installation that can
be done in about 50 minutes by an ordinary person. This
certainly makes me wonder about the 2-hour labor charge at
$80 per hour quoted by the dealer.

And yes, the salesman talked about the service department as
if it was a different company that just happened to be
located in the same building

Yes, our dealer told us that normally they would charge 2 hours labor
(at $100 an hour) to install the splash guards, moldings and bumper
cover. My guess is that at most that is a 30 minute job.
-yngver