V
Victor Roberts
I live in southern Saratoga County, New York, between the
cities of Albany, Schenectady, Troy and Saratoga Springs.
The story below is true, but I am not going to mention the
name of the dealer to hopefully avoid a lawsuit.
I've been looking for a replacement for my 97 OBW and
decided that I might want to try a Forester. During the
weekend before last I test drove a Forester 2.5X manual with
Premium Package and it was very nice.
During that test drive I commented on the fact that the
"incentive" for the X was $2000 while the "inventive" for
the X with Premium Package was only $1000, raising the
differential for the Premium Package from $2350 to a rather
high $3350. The salesman, who was in the car with me, then
said that his dealership had a promotion until March 31 that
was $3000 off the MSRP of all Foresters. (The discount
includes the factory incentive - be it $1000 or $2000.) I
told him this was quite good, especially for the X with
Premium since the incentive for the X with Premium was $1000
less than for the basic X. The color I wanted was not in
stock at this dealership, but the salesman said they could
get the car in my color from another dealer. No discussion
of a higher price. My son was in the car with us and heard
this whole discussion.
After I got home I looked at the numbers and they were very
good - in fact too good to believe. For example, using only
the basic car and delivery, the MSRP for a 2.5X with Premium
Package would be $24,770. My data shows that the invoice
for this same car would be $23,194, yet the salesman was
offering me this hypothetical car for $21,770, which is $424
below invoice when the $1000 incentive is taken into
account.
I've been able to purchase cars for close to the invoice
price, but never below invoice. This price is also lower
than any I have seen discussed here for the same car. So
this was either one very good deal or a scam.
The dealer called last Friday and said he found the car in
my color at another local dealer and could have it one day
after I signed the paperwork. He asked for a $100 deposit
over the phone to "hold" the car, but he did not yet know
what accessories were already on the car and could not give
me the MSRP that would be the basis for the $3000 discount.
I was also not quite ready yet to buy.
Last Saturday I visited another dealer to see what his best
price was. He said there was no way he could come close to
the price of dealer #1.
Over the weekend I decided to buy the car. I suspected that
the deal was too good to be true, but would not be able to
tell until I tried to buy the car for that price. I was
planning to visit dealer #1 today to close the deal when the
salesman called to say that the dealer he was getting the
car from had another customer for that car so I would have
to make a decision today or risk losing the car. (Probably a
lie in light of events yet to unfold.) I told him I would be
right down. He gave me the list of accessories and the MSRP
for the car he located and asked again if was sure that I
wanted the car. I said yes, pending my final price. He was
quite taken aback, since he said "the price is as we
discussed" which could only mean $3000 below MSRP with no
additional negotiation on my part. I was unwilling to
commit to the purchase until I saw the price on a contract,
but did not state this at the time. I mentioned only the
fact that I wanted to add a few dealer-installed accessories
and he had said during the first test drive that he might be
able to negotiate some on those. (This was true on my part.)
I took my check book, calculator and accessory price lists
and headed down to the dealer.
I took another test drive, this time in an XT automatic
since the X manual I drove 10 days ago did not appear to be
on the lot. Because of all the discussion here I wanted to
check out the automatic climate control, and I assumed the
XT and the X have the same climate control system. Based on
my short test drive the automatic climate control is OK.
More about that in another note.
We sat down at his desk. he told me the MSRP of "my" car was
$25,252 with the few accessories it had, and my price would
be $22,252. When I asked if he knew the sales tax rate
where I lived (it varies by county and we get charged by
where we live not by where we buy the car) he disappeared
and came back to ask if I was going to finance the car or
pay cash. I said cash and he disappeared again.
When he came back he had another salesman with him. I
thought salesman #2 was going to try to sell me financing,
as happened the last time I purchased a car at another
dealership. But, as soon as salesman #2 said "you know the
discount is UP TO $3000" I knew the deal was off. He stared
telling me about the fact that the incentive for the X with
Premium Package was $1000 less than the incentive for the X
and that he also had to charge more because the car was not
on his lot. I explained to him that the salesman had told
me the discount was $3000 for all Foresters even though the
incentive was different for different models, and when he
offered to find a car in the color I wanted he did not
mention a higher price for this service, and told salesman
#2 the my son had heard the whole discussion between me and
salesman #1. No matter, he told me how much money he would
lose if he sold me the car at the price I expected, and I
told him that not only was I NOT going to pay the higher
price but the deal was off even if he WAS willing to give me
the original price.
Now - do I keep my 97 OBW or continue looking for a new
Forester? I really do like my old OBW.
cities of Albany, Schenectady, Troy and Saratoga Springs.
The story below is true, but I am not going to mention the
name of the dealer to hopefully avoid a lawsuit.
I've been looking for a replacement for my 97 OBW and
decided that I might want to try a Forester. During the
weekend before last I test drove a Forester 2.5X manual with
Premium Package and it was very nice.
During that test drive I commented on the fact that the
"incentive" for the X was $2000 while the "inventive" for
the X with Premium Package was only $1000, raising the
differential for the Premium Package from $2350 to a rather
high $3350. The salesman, who was in the car with me, then
said that his dealership had a promotion until March 31 that
was $3000 off the MSRP of all Foresters. (The discount
includes the factory incentive - be it $1000 or $2000.) I
told him this was quite good, especially for the X with
Premium since the incentive for the X with Premium was $1000
less than for the basic X. The color I wanted was not in
stock at this dealership, but the salesman said they could
get the car in my color from another dealer. No discussion
of a higher price. My son was in the car with us and heard
this whole discussion.
After I got home I looked at the numbers and they were very
good - in fact too good to believe. For example, using only
the basic car and delivery, the MSRP for a 2.5X with Premium
Package would be $24,770. My data shows that the invoice
for this same car would be $23,194, yet the salesman was
offering me this hypothetical car for $21,770, which is $424
below invoice when the $1000 incentive is taken into
account.
I've been able to purchase cars for close to the invoice
price, but never below invoice. This price is also lower
than any I have seen discussed here for the same car. So
this was either one very good deal or a scam.
The dealer called last Friday and said he found the car in
my color at another local dealer and could have it one day
after I signed the paperwork. He asked for a $100 deposit
over the phone to "hold" the car, but he did not yet know
what accessories were already on the car and could not give
me the MSRP that would be the basis for the $3000 discount.
I was also not quite ready yet to buy.
Last Saturday I visited another dealer to see what his best
price was. He said there was no way he could come close to
the price of dealer #1.
Over the weekend I decided to buy the car. I suspected that
the deal was too good to be true, but would not be able to
tell until I tried to buy the car for that price. I was
planning to visit dealer #1 today to close the deal when the
salesman called to say that the dealer he was getting the
car from had another customer for that car so I would have
to make a decision today or risk losing the car. (Probably a
lie in light of events yet to unfold.) I told him I would be
right down. He gave me the list of accessories and the MSRP
for the car he located and asked again if was sure that I
wanted the car. I said yes, pending my final price. He was
quite taken aback, since he said "the price is as we
discussed" which could only mean $3000 below MSRP with no
additional negotiation on my part. I was unwilling to
commit to the purchase until I saw the price on a contract,
but did not state this at the time. I mentioned only the
fact that I wanted to add a few dealer-installed accessories
and he had said during the first test drive that he might be
able to negotiate some on those. (This was true on my part.)
I took my check book, calculator and accessory price lists
and headed down to the dealer.
I took another test drive, this time in an XT automatic
since the X manual I drove 10 days ago did not appear to be
on the lot. Because of all the discussion here I wanted to
check out the automatic climate control, and I assumed the
XT and the X have the same climate control system. Based on
my short test drive the automatic climate control is OK.
More about that in another note.
We sat down at his desk. he told me the MSRP of "my" car was
$25,252 with the few accessories it had, and my price would
be $22,252. When I asked if he knew the sales tax rate
where I lived (it varies by county and we get charged by
where we live not by where we buy the car) he disappeared
and came back to ask if I was going to finance the car or
pay cash. I said cash and he disappeared again.
When he came back he had another salesman with him. I
thought salesman #2 was going to try to sell me financing,
as happened the last time I purchased a car at another
dealership. But, as soon as salesman #2 said "you know the
discount is UP TO $3000" I knew the deal was off. He stared
telling me about the fact that the incentive for the X with
Premium Package was $1000 less than the incentive for the X
and that he also had to charge more because the car was not
on his lot. I explained to him that the salesman had told
me the discount was $3000 for all Foresters even though the
incentive was different for different models, and when he
offered to find a car in the color I wanted he did not
mention a higher price for this service, and told salesman
#2 the my son had heard the whole discussion between me and
salesman #1. No matter, he told me how much money he would
lose if he sold me the car at the price I expected, and I
told him that not only was I NOT going to pay the higher
price but the deal was off even if he WAS willing to give me
the original price.
Now - do I keep my 97 OBW or continue looking for a new
Forester? I really do like my old OBW.