M
M.J.
Is the coolant conditioner treatment going to be recommended
(required?) on 2008 models with the 2.5L engine?
M.J.
(required?) on 2008 models with the 2.5L engine?
M.J.
B
Bob H
YES
M
M.J.
Too bad! I was pondering a new Impreza purchase.
I don't want a Civic, Mazda, Corolla, and the like.
What does one do? Wait for the Subaru diesel?
Get a Mitsu? They don't even sell the Ralliart stronger
engine version yet. The 2.0L is supposedly weak.
M.J.
M
M.J.
M.J. said:
Talking Mitsu Lancer here, of course.
M.J.
B
Bugalugs
You have it on good authority that this is true??
Like FHI or Subaru of America ??
Like FHI or Subaru of America ??
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
Bugalugs said:
additionally, do you KNOW those other vehicles do not have a
conditioner? And what if the diesel gets the conditioner?
Carl
M
M.J.
What is the point of asking such a ridiculous question?
Are you' some kind of logical idiot?
Sure there is a chance the Subaru diesel might get the
conditioner but then I wouldn't want that engine, either.
This whole conditioner issue in my opinion is nothing
less than a sign of incompenent engineering. Most
likely the block has some hot spots that lead to
weakening gaskets. I am theorizing here, as Subaru
seems to hush-up the heat related (?) true nature of
the problem. They seem to desperately try find a fix
in the form of a super strong gasket material that could
bear the heat-pressure without disintegrating.
There are probably additional ways to ameliorate the
head gasket problem besides the coolant conditioner
treatment such as:
- trying to keep the engine oil SUPER cool by installing
a big oil-cooler, or extra large capacity oil pan- like racers do
- putting water-wetter into coolant to try aid cooling,
- using more slippery synthetic engine oils- also helps
keep engine temps down.
But why go through all of this?
Why not simply buy a car that has an engine designed
to handle the heat and pressure withou help of all sorts
of band-aids?
I have a 2000 Impreza with the 2.2L engine and am very
happy with it, but I need a second car. The 2.5 L engine
(the need for the conditioner being for me a barometer of
the quality of engineering) is just unacceptable to me, too
much risk, as I like to keep my cars for much longer than
100k.
M.J.
B
Bugalugs
But you still haven't answered the question. On what authority do youM.J. said:
say that 2008 models require this conditioner.???
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
Bugalugs said:
according to cars101.com - the coolant additive was only part of a
recall up to 2002. And it is only effective for external leaks.
*****2/6/04 1999-02 Phase2 2.5L engines, Legacy, Outback, Forester
possible external coolant leak at the cylinder head gaskets Certain
1999 through 2002 2.5L equipped vehicles may experience an external
coolant leak at the head gaskets. As a precautionary measure, SOA is
adding a special conditioner to the engine cooling system. This
conditioner prevents leaks from occurring and corrects existing leaks.
Only early Phase II 2.5 liter engines are affected. Phase I 2.5 liter
engines (some 1999 model year and prior years) are not affected.
Countermeasures applied to the manufacturing process for those 2002 and
later VINS not affected by this campaign have eliminated the need for
this campaign to be performed on those vehicles.
In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Cooling System
Conditioner to the SUBARU vehicle cooling system whenever the engine
coolant is replaced.
If the vehicle owner has this repair performed promptly, Subaru will
extend warranty coverage on cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks
to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first.
Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the
first retail purchaser or on the date the vehicle was first placed in
demo or rental service. The owner must have Genuine Subaru Cooling
System Conditioner added to the vehicle at any subsequent cooling system
services at the interval specified in the Warranty and Maintenance
Booklet under the heading “Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance
Services”. Resulting damage caused by a lack of maintenance or low
coolant level will not be covered.******
Carl
*****
M
M.J.
I am the original poster (OP) asking the question (whether conditioner
is required).
It seems not to be (see Carls post), but questions linger in my mind
as to the permanency of the fix. If I decide to buy a car with the
2.5l engine I am very hesitant, I will definitely install an additional
engine oil cooler, or an extra capacity oil pan, just to be on the safe
side, if there is one.
M.J.
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
M.J. said:
If its mentioned or 'required' anymore, likely it's considered an
inexpensive 'safety net' by Subaru. They either don't realize anyone is
rejecting their vehicles from consideration for purchase because of it's
use or don't care.
To me, its no more concern than a vehicle coming from the factory with
synthetic oil in it like some (European and Corvettes?) do.
After I posted, I looked through my manual (for the WRX - haven't
checked the Outback's manual yet)and I found where it says to use the
conditioner.
Carl
M
M.J.
Carl 1 Lucky Texan said:
Maybe, maybe not, we just don't know.
There is a third possibility, they may realize, may care, but it is
just cheaper to deal with the problem this way. Many car
manufacturers have in the past built solid reputations and then
rode these for years, sometimes nearly into oblivion.
Well, I guess you don't call yourself Lucky for nothing.
That Texas oil well of yours, or lottery winning, or whatever it was that
made you lucky must have altered your outlook, or made ordinary
worries become trivialities for you
))))))M.J.
B
Bugalugs
Fairy nufCarl said:
But the point I was making was that the OP asked about 2008 models. The
first reply claimed that use of the conditioner WAS a requirement.
However the above reply states
"Countermeasures applied to the manufacturing process for those 2002
and later VINS not affected by this campaign have eliminated the need
for this campaign to be performed on those vehicles."
While that extract is not structured very clearly it would appear that
the "Conditioner" is not a requirement in the 2008 2.5L models
B
Bob H
The fix must be added at every coolant change. It will enough to get you
through the warranty period.
The accumulation cannot possibly be good for coolant flow. It may in fact
contribute to cylinder head overheating and cloggin of passages.
Try a better design.
through the warranty period.
The accumulation cannot possibly be good for coolant flow. It may in fact
contribute to cylinder head overheating and cloggin of passages.
Try a better design.
M
Mk IV
Carl 1 Lucky Texan scribbled:
The WRX has a 2.0l engine and as far as I know doesn't have a head
gasket problem, and doesn't need cooling system conditioner.
The WRX has a 2.0l engine and as far as I know doesn't have a head
gasket problem, and doesn't need cooling system conditioner.
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
Bugalugs said:
That's what I wanted to believe - but I think it should be interpreted
that a RECALL campaign is not required on newer vehicles.
As to the issue about '08s recieving the conditioner, I agree its
doubtful anyone knows for certain yet (outside of Subaru engineers) but,
seeing it in my '06 manual makes me feel it likely will be included.
I went to the my subaru website, dowloaded the pdf file (cause I was too
lazy to dig the manual outta my car) and searched on condioner. Then i
scrolled through the results looking for the term not in association
with 'air' (as in air conditioning).
meh
Carl
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
Mk said:
My '06 is a 2.5l, the manual says the conditioner must be used. I doubt
it 'needs' it in the sense an '01 does. Just that Subaru may have
decided to continue using the conditioner.
Again, does a new Corvette 'need' synthetic oil?
Carl
M
Mk IV
Carl 1 Lucky Texan scribbled:
The right question would be: does a new Corvette 'need' synthetic oil to
prevent oil pan gasket leakage? The answer is no, it doesn't.
The need for cooling system conditioner in the Subaru 2.5l engine is to
prevent/correct premature head gasket failure. This engine has had this
head gasket problem since 1999, you'd think they'd have it figured out
by now. This being said, head gasket problems seem to be a common trait
with high performance boxer engines, ask any Porsche owner...
The right question would be: does a new Corvette 'need' synthetic oil to
prevent oil pan gasket leakage? The answer is no, it doesn't.
The need for cooling system conditioner in the Subaru 2.5l engine is to
prevent/correct premature head gasket failure. This engine has had this
head gasket problem since 1999, you'd think they'd have it figured out
by now. This being said, head gasket problems seem to be a common trait
with high performance boxer engines, ask any Porsche owner...
H
houndman
what will the oil cooler and bigger pan do to prevent a head gasket
failure ?
VF
C
Carl 1 Lucky Texan
Mk said:
Does a Corvette require synthetic oil because use of non-syntetic oil
will lead to wear induced failure? What are they trying to cover up?
Will your warranty be voided if you don't use synth-oil in your Vette?
You seem pretty confident Subaru has not addressed the problem.
You seem to want to believe the worst. Fine, no one can reason you out
of some concept you didn't come to believe through reason.
you can have the last word - I'm through
Carl