Subaru production

[kstahl]

Are Subarus built with union labor? Or does the UAW consider them to be
a foreign car even though they are made in a plant here in the U.S.?

 

[jabario]

I hope not -- that's why they are still high quality eveb though
they're built here. No overpaid lazy union monkeys not giving a crap
about quality. I had a neighbor who worked at the former ford plant in
edison nj and he was laid off -- but still got paid well!! That's why
ford can only buy poor quality components while jap cars pay a bit more
and make better quality cars.

 

[Aaron M]

Information on their Indiana Plant can be found at
http://www.subaru-sia.com/ .

 

[Jim]

Are Subarus built with union labor? Or does the UAW consider them to be a
foreign car even though they are made in a plant here in the U.S.?

I was on the fence between an Outback and Forester. Forester is Made in
Japan, so I went with that.

 

[JDC]

Subaru legacy/outback is made in Indiana with nonunion labor.

 

[H]

I was deciding between Legacy and Forester also, I went with the Japan built
Forester.

Harry

 

[LB]

Well, I went with 2005 Outback last August (it it's bigger then Forrester),
while I love my car here are the warranty repairs so far:

1. In about 2 weeks driving, 4 wheel alignment. Car kept pulling to the
right
2. Last month: replacement of the exhaust resonator/pre-muffler. Rattling
noise
3. Last month: installing two seatbelt kits to remedy slow sit belt
retraction
4. Last month: re-routing blue sub-woofer cable, so it's not visible
5. Windshield replacement (not Subaru quality related of course)

Other then that, I think it's a good car.

 

[jabario]

Remember, you bought the first year of a new car. There are always bugs
to worked out. Had you gotten an 04 you wouldnt be having these
problems.

 

[JDC]

No car is perfect. I have an '04 3.0 Outback. Needed initial wheel balance,
seat adjustment; repleacement autodim mirror, still has strange buzzing
vibration in steering when cold, sometimes hard to start. Still a good car.

 

[Blair Baucom]

You should tell this to the Japanese Union members who out number US union
members two to one.

Blair

 

[jabario]

The nips may be union but they have pride in their work and the jap
companies seem to strive to produce quality products. Americans are
generally blindly loyal to a brand regardless of problems they have.

 

[Generic]

The Japanese system is vastly different than ours. Their workers don't
picket, don't sabotage products, don't strongarm management and generally
avoid confrontation. Everyone is much more loyal than in the US.

-John

 

[H]

It is generally recognised that americans build the poorest quality cars. I
believe JD Poers even acknowledges that Canada built american cars are of
better quality than the American built versions.

 

[Generic]

That's generally incorrect. As of today the least reliable cars are
consistently European. Volkswagen and Land Rover are near the bottom.
Mercedes and BMW are worse than many US products. On average US products are
a bit more reliable than European, but both are substantially less reliable
than Asian cars. Many Japanese cars are made in the US (Toyota, Honda,
Mazda, etc) and they hold up better than Detroit products.

My source is Consumer Reports.

One explanation is that European companies have added piles of features
(especially computerized systems) that are prone to failure. On top of that
they work 34 hours per week and go on the dole if they can't work. They are
the least hungry workers in the world, not unlike Detroit 30 years ago.

-John

 

[Blair Baucom]

I am trying to figure out if it is the Unions being slammed here or is it
the American (U.S.) worker being slammed here.

I have worked as an American for both Union & Non-Union companies. I have
worked at a Japanese company and lived in Japan, and worked in the U.S. for
that company. I have worked for U.S. companies, and currently work for a
German company. I travel all over the U.S. to many companies and meet
workers who come from all over, many not speaking English.

From my experience, there is little difference. Everywhere there are workers
who care a great deal about doing a job right. Then there always a group of
slackers. I do notice when people are paid lowball wages, there attitudes
seem to be more of "who cares if I keep this job or not" as opposed to Japan
where many still have strong bonds to the company where they expect to work
for their entire life. When I visit their homes they were proud to show
their loyalty to the company by owning all their companies other products.
Where here in the U.S. at the Ford plant you may only see half the employees
driving Fords, with many Japanese cars on the lot. So just who is blindly
loyal to a brand?

Blair

 

[Bonehenge]

That's generally incorrect. As of today the least reliable cars are
consistently European. Volkswagen and Land Rover are near the bottom.
Mercedes and BMW are worse than many US products. On average US products are
a bit more reliable than European, but both are substantially less reliable
than Asian cars. Many Japanese cars are made in the US (Toyota, Honda,
Mazda, etc) and they hold up better than Detroit products.

Remember, an awful lot of USA market Volkswagen and Audi products are
now built in Mexico. I'm pretty sure some USA market Mercedes are
also either Mexican built or have many Mexican sourced parts.

Land Rover and Jaguar have historically had terrible reliability
records, regardless of where they build them.

Most of the higher end Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, and BMW models that
are German built are also the most complex and precise vehicles on the
road today. I always thought that the more complex and precise the
vehicle, the more there is to go wrong. They just seem to crave
attention.

Barry

 

[Generic]

Remember, an awful lot of USA market Volkswagen and Audi products are
now built in Mexico. I'm pretty sure some USA market Mercedes are
also either Mexican built or have many Mexican sourced parts.

No disagreement, but it's interesting to note:

Japan built (except Suzuki and Isuzu) = solid
US built Japanese designs = solid

North American designed & made = so-so
European designed and built = so-so
European design, N. America built = so-so

I've got to conclude the best predictors of quality are management and
engineering.

Most of the higher end Audi, Volkswagen, Mercedes, and BMW models that
are German built are also the most complex and precise vehicles on the
road today. I always thought that the more complex and precise the
vehicle, the more there is to go wrong. They just seem to crave
attention.

Same as US military products (e.g. tanks, jets, guns). They are made like
Swiss watches with a high budget, and have the similar maintenance issues.

-John

 

[jabario]

Japan built isuzus are even better toyotas

 

[Generic]

The old Troopers were great.

The Rodeo has average to poor reliability. It was rebadged as the Honda
Passport, and has the worst reliability of any Honda ever.

GM is destroying Isuzu and Saab (as an owner). They don't seem to have such
a toxic effect on Subaru, except perhaps in recent styling.

-John

 

[Bonehenge]

Same as US military products (e.g. tanks, jets, guns). They are made like
Swiss watches with a high budget, and have the similar maintenance issues.

Right. But it all depends what you're looking for. <G>

High end items, like cars, bicycles, weapons, or even machine tools,
do *something* very, very well.

The Japanese seem to very good at making reliability at a decent price
the strong point. One of the ways at doing this is to not squeeze
every last horsepower or piece of handling precision out of the car.
The goal is simply to make it good, and make many of them. I'll bet
that Japanese powered F1 or WRC race cars really aren't that much more
reliable than Ferrari, Porsche/Audi, or BMW powered machines.

You payz your money...

Barry