should I buy a subaru?

[Holly]

I've been thinking of getting rid of my 99 Camry because it needs
tires/shocks/struts/balljoints/tierod ends/clutch (I think the person who
owned it before drove it hard - I've only had it a year). It has 85K on
it.

I like the Legacy sedan because of the AWD, but can only afford a 97.

Is it worth it to get a car that's 2 years older? (Most seem to have the
same mileage at this age, I'm just not sure about safety features).

How long do Subarus tend to last?

I really like manual transmissions, how are they on Subarus?

Holly

 

[Florian Feuser /FFF/]

I've been thinking of getting rid of my 99 Camry because it needs
tires/shocks/struts/balljoints/tierod ends/clutch
(I think the person who
owned it before drove it hard - I've only had it a year).
It has 85K on it.

Those suspension/steering parts don't last forever in a Subaru either... After
about 100 - 150k miles they usually need to be replaced.

I like the Legacy sedan because of the AWD, but can only
afford a 97.

The AWD system is very solid but susceptible to abuse and not inexpensive to
repair. The head gaskets in the 96 and newer 2.5l engines have a higher-than-
normal failure rate. Nothing catastrophic, but you've got to allow for the
possibility of a $900 - $1200 repair job.

It's a great car, but it's not drive and forget like a Toyota, IMO.

Is it worth it to get a car that's 2 years older?
(Most seem to have the
same mileage at this age, I'm just not sure about safety features).

How long do Subarus tend to last?

Pretty long, if well taken care of.

I really like manual transmissions, how are they on Subarus?

Fine. The shifting action isn't overly tight (my experience with 95 Legacy) but
the manual gearbox is way solid enough to handle the power of the stock engine.

florian

 

[Florian Feuser /FFF/]

I've been thinking of getting rid of my 99 Camry because it needs
tires/shocks/struts/balljoints/tierod ends/clutch
(I think the person who
owned it before drove it hard - I've only had it a year).
It has 85K on it.

Those suspension/steering parts don't last forever in a Subaru either... After
about 100 - 150k miles they usually need to be replaced.

I like the Legacy sedan because of the AWD, but can only
afford a 97.

The AWD system is very solid but susceptible to abuse and not inexpensive to
repair. The head gaskets in the 96 and newer 2.5l engines seem to have a higher-
than-normal failure rate. Nothing catastrophic, but you've got to allow for the
possibility of a $900 - $1200 repair job.

It's a great car, but it's not drive and forget like a Toyota, IMO.

Is it worth it to get a car that's 2 years older?
(Most seem to have the
same mileage at this age, I'm just not sure about safety features).

How long do Subarus tend to last?

Pretty long, if well taken care of.

I really like manual transmissions, how are they on Subarus?

Fine. The shifting action isn't overly tight (my experience with 95 Legacy) but
the manual gearbox is way solid enough to handle the power of the stock engine.

florian

 

[KLS]

I really like manual transmissions, how are they on Subarus?

Another person answered your other questions, including this one, but
I wanted to comment that I have to say that I'm not crazy about
Subaru's manual transmission compared with Toyota's or Honda's, which
I think are slightly smoother and more efficient. Similar in feel,
though. I much prefer the shifting on my '98 Audi A4 over my
sweetie's '99 Subaru Legacy Outback wagon, but the Outback is an
otherwise lovely car. Subarus are GREAT cars; my mother is about to
buy her second, selling her '98 Legacy Outback LTD with 89,000 miles
to get a 2005 2.5i (auto, though).
Katie Schmitz
Rochester, New York, USA
klschmitz Uppercase2 frontiernet.net
Still into xymergy in spirit, if not in action

 

[Rick Courtright]

I've been thinking of getting rid of my 99 Camry because it needs
tires/shocks/struts/balljoints/tierod ends/clutch (I think the person who
owned it before drove it hard - I've only had it a year). It has 85K on

Holly,

Since all the things you've mentioned (possibly excepting the clutch)
are pretty standard for most cars coming up on the mileage you have on
your Toyota, you might want to make a list and see what the overall cost
is going to be to replace them. (Figure if you don't drive like a crazy
person you should probably expect all but the tires to go another 100k
miles) and compare that cost to the cost of replacement with a Subie
that just might need many of the same things soon!

Also, you didn't mention which engine your Camry's got: if it's a 4, you
might find the Subie a bit harder on gas, if a 6, perhaps little
difference. The AWD eats some fuel, and I don't think Subies have ever
sat at the top of the fuel economy charts regardless of model. And
you'll find fewer people, and consequently probably higher prices, to
work on your Subie. Plus Subaru's parts pipeline is "leisurely" compared
to Toyota's (I have both a Subie and a Camry, and that's from my
experience here in SoCal. I understand some parts of the country where
Subies are more prevalent it's better.)

I like the Legacy sedan because of the AWD, but can only afford a 97.

AWD is nice in cruddy conditions, like snow or a lot of rain. In dry
climates, like SoCal where I live, it's less of a selling point.

Is it worth it to get a car that's 2 years older? (Most seem to have the
same mileage at this age, I'm just not sure about safety features).

Again, on your piece of paper, write down the safety features your Camry
has that you wouldn't want to live without, then ask the Subie salesman
which ones the '97 Legacy has.

How long do Subarus tend to last?

Don't know about everybody's, but mine has 355k miles.

I really like manual transmissions, how are they on Subarus?

For shifting, I'd personally go Honda, Toyota, Mazda, Subaru in that
order. For longevity, Subaru's as good as any IME.

Best of luck deciding!

Rick

 

[JAS_IL]

Financially, I think you are better off keeping the Camry. If you sell
now, you are going to take a significant hit on the price given the
work that needs to be done on it. I think that if you had the work
done on the Camry, it might serve you well for many years. Even though
I am a big Subaru fan, I don't think too many people would expect a
Subaru to incur lower ongoing expense than the Camry as both cars age.

AWD is really not that much of a safety feature in typical driving,
and unless you are a real driving enthusiast, you may not care about
the handling / performance advantages of the Legacy.

 

[Bobby The D]

Rick Courtright wrote in message

experience here in SoCal. I understand some parts of the country where
Subies are more prevalent it's better.)

Brings up an interesting question. I'd read that Subaru only has
something like a 1% market share in the U.S. One would think it to be
much higher judging by the number of them you see here in New England.
Apparently there must be regions of the country where they are almost
non-existent. While I've never had trouble getting thru snow with a
FWD car, certainly 4WD is a strong marketing point.

Don't know about everybody's, but mine has 355k miles.

They used to be real rust buckets, though they've seemed to have
improved them in the last 10 yr. or so. Obviously not an issue in S.
Calif.


Don't seem to see too many manuals anymore. My father had a '96 that
was. It was OK, not great. Never cared for the feel of Japanese
manuals to begin with.

 

[Holly]

It is true that I would only wish for AWD during a few nasty months in
the winter - here in DC we get a lot of icy sleety rainy days instead of
pure snow. But I've made it through many years with only a FWD so I
suppose I could make do with my current car.

I know that cars with 80k miles do need suspension/etc. work on them...
but the thing that is pushing me over the edge is the clutch. The car's
clutch isn't technically broken, but the bearing is bad (I was told this
by a mechanic). So it functions and will probably continue to do so for a
long time, except a lot of force is required to use the clutch. So much so
that it actually hurts my knee sometimes, and I am pretty athletic with no
knee problems. If I'm wearing hiking boots it's ok, but when I'm heading
to work in flimsy dress shoes, it drives me up a wall. It'll cost about
$800 to fix it and I don't know if it will be 'nice' after spending all
that money.

Another thing that really bugs me about the car are the shocks. I took it
to a dealer just to have them tell me what was wrong with it, and they
said the shocks are fine. The car bounces all over the road and bottoms
out like crazy, and I can't even have a skinny person in the back seat
without bottoming out while backing out of my driveway. That's
ridiculous! So, either the dealer was wrong and they didn't really check
the shocks (though how they didn't notice I have no idea) or the shocks
really *are* fine, they're just supposed to be that bad. I looked on
epinions and around the internet, and more than one person complains about
their toyota's shocks, but not enough for me to figure out what's going
on.

That's why part of me is wondering... if I'm going to spend all this money
on repairs.. maybe I should do it for a car that I at least like, or feel
like the repairs are going to work. I am just afraid of having landed
myself a money pit of a car.

Thanks for all your input! I'm a little worried about what someone
mentioned about head gaskets going easily. I don't know which is worse
now, sound engine and crappy suspension, or the reverse!

If anyone else wants to share their subie experience, I'd be happy to read
about it.

I'd be looking at 97-99 Legacy sedans (well I'm considering wagons too).

Holly

: Financially, I think you are better off keeping the Camry. If you sell
: now, you are going to take a significant hit on the price given the
: work that needs to be done on it. I think that if you had the work
: done on the Camry, it might serve you well for many years. Even though
: I am a big Subaru fan, I don't think too many people would expect a
: Subaru to incur lower ongoing expense than the Camry as both cars age.

: AWD is really not that much of a safety feature in typical driving,
: and unless you are a real driving enthusiast, you may not care about
: the handling / performance advantages of the Legacy.

 

[Hal Whelply]

I see a surprising number--growing, is my impression--of Subarus here in
southern California (Orange County, to be precise). Indeed, I believe the
dealer where I purchased my Forester (Frank's Irvine Subaru, Lake Forest) at
least one recent year was the fourth highest in sales nationally.

True, there aren't as many as I saw in Montana in summer 2003.

HW

 

[hippo]

Just wanted to echo Rick's earlier post. Note - I'm not a great Camry fan
and now on my second Subie BUT if a shop you trust can give a reasonable
quote for the work and a guarantee, then I'd keep the Camry IF it's a
4cyl. (6 costs too much to run). Get some shop recommendations and some
reliable quotes then you can judge better. BTW if the ride is that bad
then it sounds like you know more about suspension than the person who
said it was ok! Get a clutch quote, a quote for four struts & a decent
wheel alignment & then make a more informed decision. Should be a cheaper
option. Cheers

 

[Rick Courtright]

Another thing that really bugs me about the car are the shocks. I took it
to a dealer just to have them tell me what was wrong with it, and they
said the shocks are fine. The car bounces all over the road and bottoms

Holly,

If you have a chance to test drive the Subie over some of the same roads
you're familiar with, watch for this same problem. For quite a few
years, Subaru seemed to think "soft springs, stiff shocks" was the way
to go. Don't know when/if they got off that kick... I prefer stiffer
springs to avoid the problems you described.

BTW, not to turn this into a full blown Toyota discussion, but I doubt
your Camry should be bottoming out like you describe. Mine's an SE, with
the stiffer suspension, and it's still on the original shocks at 218k mi
(yeah, they're getting tired, but not shot yet) and it only bottoms on
the same dips other cars do. You might ask about the springs and shocks
from the SE package when making your list of costs.

Again, best of luck deciding!

Rick

 

[Al]

Holly,

If you have a chance to test drive the Subie over some of the same roads
you're familiar with, watch for this same problem. For quite a few
years, Subaru seemed to think "soft springs, stiff shocks" was the way
to go. Don't know when/if they got off that kick... I prefer stiffer
springs to avoid the problems you described.

BTW, not to turn this into a full blown Toyota discussion, but I doubt
your Camry should be bottoming out like you describe. Mine's an SE, with
the stiffer suspension, and it's still on the original shocks at 218k mi
(yeah, they're getting tired, but not shot yet) and it only bottoms on
the same dips other cars do. You might ask about the springs and shocks
from the SE package when making your list of costs.

Again, best of luck deciding!

Rick

Never buy the first run of a new model. I made that mistake with the
first run of the Outback. I had to trade it in with only 60K miles on it
as it was a real dog. Yeah, most of the problems were fixed under
warrenty, but it waw a real pain in the butt.

Al

 

[Holly]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! I'm still not sure what to do. But I
am at least going to take the Toyota to a few shops and see what they
estimate for repairs, and also see if I can find some Subie's to test
drive. From my first few initial searches it looks like it's not easy to
find a 5-speed.

Not to turn this into a Saturn discussion but I noticed in the paper that
I could buy a car with 33K for the same price as a Toyota or Subaru.... is
it better to get a car that will last longer, or one with less miles??

Decisions, decisions!

Saturn doesn't have AWD though. But I do wonder if operating costs would
be cheaper.

Holly

:> BTW, not to turn this into a full blown Toyota discussion, but I doubt
:> your Camry should be bottoming out like you describe. Mine's an SE, with
:> the stiffer suspension, and it's still on the original shocks at 218k mi
:> (yeah, they're getting tired, but not shot yet) and it only bottoms on
:> the same dips other cars do. You might ask about the springs and shocks
:> from the SE package when making your list of costs.
:>
:> Again, best of luck deciding!

 

[Rick Courtright]

Not to turn this into a Saturn discussion but I noticed in the paper that
I could buy a car with 33K for the same price as a Toyota or Subaru.... is
it better to get a car that will last longer, or one with less miles??

Better taste, less filling? I'd opt for "last longer," particularly
since I've never heard anything to indicate Saturns are particularly
long-lived (remember, despite all the initial hype about their being
"self-controlled," Saturn's still under the GM umbrella, which says a
lot to me, if nobody else.)

Personally, I'd stick with your Toy or a Subie... and if your Camry's a
4 cyl, I'd probably opt for fixing and keeping it before buying another
car. OTOH, if it's a 6 cyl, like mine, then Hippo nailed it: it's a bit
too expensive to run. Mine costs bwtween four and five times as much per
mile as my Subie (mostly cuz of the high cost of having the dealer work
on things I can't or won't do on it I'd readily do on a 4 cyl myself),
so for every 1k I drive the Camry on Sundays and such, the Subie goes
about 5k miles during the week!

Rick

 

[Bobby The D]

Rick Courtright wrote in message

??

Better taste, less filling? I'd opt for "last longer," particularly
since I've never heard anything to indicate Saturns are particularly
long-lived (remember, despite all the initial hype about their being
"self-controlled," Saturn's still under the GM umbrella, which says a
lot to me, if nobody else.)

Personally, I'd stick with your Toy or a Subie... and if your Camry's a
4 cyl, I'd probably opt for fixing and keeping it before buying another
car.

Each to their own I guess. I've had very good luck with GMs...can't
say the same for toyotas.

 

[John Rethorst]

For quite a few
years, Subaru seemed to think "soft springs, stiff shocks" was the way
to go. Don't know when/if they got off that kick...

It's apparently pretty sophisticated suspension theory, at least in
theory . . . , pioneered by Peugeot, which is said to know
something about suspensions. i like the theory and hope that my (new
to me) 2001 OBW has that design. Its ride is taut but smooth. But it
could be smoother and hopefully will be, when I replace the OM
Firestone Wilderness tires with either the Michelin HydroEdge or
Goodyear Assurance, choices made with the help of this group.

Anyone know when the "soft springs, stiff shocks" was in effect at
Subaru?