Outback Expen$ive Brake Job - Opinions Wanted Please!

[J]

We bought a 2000 Outback a week ago. Clean, maintained, etc. with a
moderate 42,000 miles. Trustworthy seller (as well as a test drive)
informed us the brakes were in need of repair -- rotors were scored
and seller implied he had been estimated $300. We took that off the
price and bought the vehicle. We live in the Boston area.

During an oil change and state inspection yesterday, we were informed
that the brakes were "very bad -- almost metal on metal" and if we
drove it much more the calipers would be eaten. I asked for a ballpark
figure and was told $110 each for four rotors, $100 for a set of 4
ceramic pads, about 180 for labor. Ouch.

So I took it to the mechanic I have used for the last few years. I
basically trust him but he's pulled a few things (keeping the core
charge even though he also keeps the parts) to make me a bit wary.
He's given me a good price on some other things, though, and seems to
be thorough. He put it on the lift right away and confirmed that the
brakes were extremely bad and the rear rotors could even possibly
shatter during sudden, emergency braking. He offered to do the brakes
right there and then, and with the holiday weekend and an out-of-state
trip coming up, I agreed. As far as "saving money," I said that my
wife would be driving the car and it had to be safe. But I was
confident that the total would be less than the first off-the-cuff
quote I was given.

Less than two hours later all was complete and I went in. He said the
rear pistons had been "frozen" so we were basically only using the
front brakes. I asked whether the new rotors were genuine Subaru and
he said yes. Said he used semi-metallic pads. Also said he had checked
all fluids and found low oil in the rear differential. The bill was as
follows:


Basic front disc brake job includes installation of new front disc
brake pads, shims, two new front disc brake rotors and press, clean
and lubricate existing calipers $89.95

One new set of front disc brake pads and shims $66.23

Two new front disc brake heavy duty rotors $246.42

Basic rear disc brake job includes installation of new rear disc brake
pads, shims, two new rear disc brake rotors and oress, clean and
lubircate existing calipers $89.95

One new set of rear brake pads and shims $67.62

Two new rear brake heavy duty rotors $240.92

Check and refill all fluids (no charge)

-----------------------------------------
Total (with tax) $832.15


I felt a bit like a sucker but what's done was done and I paid and
left. The brakes felt good on the way home.

At home I did some searching online and see aftermarket rotors for
40-80 bucks. So I feel like maybe I didn't do my homework on this one.

Questions to the group:

Should I have shied away from a car with four bad rotors at 42K miles?
Should I continue to use this mechanic?
Did I really need heavy duty rotors?
Are pads really that expensive?
Am I a dope?

Thank you for any and all educated opinions provided.

J

 

[Mark Bergman]

Seems a bit, but not much, high. Your mechanic had to buy parts from a

Subaru dealer. There are no worthwhile aftermarket brake parts for Subarus.

Next time, when time isnot of the essence, buy your parts from

Naticksubaru.com or send your mechanic to them. They'll sell to you for

wholesale. Ilive in NY and I buy from them on-line regularly.

Mark

We bought a 2000 Outback a week ago. Clean, maintained, etc. with a

moderate 42,000 miles. Trustworthy seller (as well as a test drive)

informed us the brakes were in need of repair -- rotors were scored

and seller implied he had been estimated $300. We took that off the

price and bought the vehicle. We live in the Boston area.

During an oil change and state inspection yesterday, we were informed

that the brakes were "very bad -- almost metal on metal" and if we

drove it much more the calipers would be eaten. I asked for a ballpark

figure and was told $110 each for four rotors, $100 for a set of 4

ceramic pads, about 180 for labor. Ouch.

So I took it to the mechanic I have used for the last few years. I

basically trust him but he's pulled a few things (keeping the core

charge even though he also keeps the parts) to make me a bit wary.

He's given me a good price on some other things, though, and seems to

be thorough. He put it on the lift right away and confirmed that the

brakes were extremely bad and the rear rotors could even possibly

shatter during sudden, emergency braking. He offered to do the brakes

right there and then, and with the holiday weekend and an out-of-state

trip coming up, I agreed. As far as "saving money," I said that my

wife would be driving the car and it had to be safe. But I was

confident that the total would be less than the first off-the-cuff

quote I was given.

Less than two hours later all was complete and I went in. He said the

rear pistons had been "frozen" so we were basically only using the

front brakes. I asked whether the new rotors were genuine Subaru and

he said yes. Said he used semi-metallic pads. Also said he had checked

all fluids and found low oil in the rear differential. The bill was as



Basic front disc brake job includes installation of new front disc

brake pads, shims, two new front disc brake rotors and press, clean

and lubricate existing calipers $89.95

One new set of front disc brake pads and shims $66.23

Two new front disc brake heavy duty rotors $246.42

Basic rear disc brake job includes installation of new rear disc brake

pads, shims, two new rear disc brake rotors and oress, clean and

lubircate existing calipers $89.95

One new set of rear brake pads and shims $67.62

Two new rear brake heavy duty rotors $240.92

Check and refill all fluids (no charge)


Total (with tax) $832.15


I felt a bit like a sucker but what's done was done and I paid and

left. The brakes felt good on the way home.

At home I did some searching online and see aftermarket rotors for

40-80 bucks. So I feel like maybe I didn't do my homework on this one.

Questions to the group:

Should I have shied away from a car with four bad rotors at 42K miles?

Should I continue to use this mechanic?

Did I really need heavy duty rotors?

Are pads really that expensive?

Am I a dope?

Thank you for any and all educated opinions provided.

J

 

[Jkpoulos7]

Should I have shied away from a car with four bad rotors at 42K miles?

Yes or least got some worst case prices before buying.

Should I continue to use this mechanic?

If you trust him overall yes.

Did I really need heavy duty rotors?

there may only be one type available at this time

Are pads really that expensive?

Depends on car. Some are $10 /set others $200

Am I a dope?

Just another used car buyer who got duped. I'd never pay more than $5k for a
used car and it would be a project car that I know needs $$$ into it. I cannot
understand who would pay more than $10k for a used car when new ones are only a
bit more.

 

[George Adams]

From: J (e-mail address removed)

ago. Clean, maintained, etc. with a
moderate 42,000 miles. Trustworthy seller (as well as a test drive)
informed us the brakes were in need of repair -- rotors were scored
and seller implied he had been estimated $300.

First of all, the car was not well maintained if the brakes were completely
shot at 42,000. Either that or the mileage wasn't right. Sounds to me like the
car was "rode hard and put away wet", and if I were you, I'd be waiting for the
next problem to show up? Did the previous owner have the first level III
service done at 30,000? If so, why were'nt the brakes done then, before the
damage got any worse.

Sorry, my friend, but I think you got took.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

 

[Jim Stewart]

First of all, the car was not well maintained if the brakes were completely
shot at 42,000. Either that or the mileage wasn't right. Sounds to me like the
car was "rode hard and put away wet", and if I were you, I'd be waiting for the
next problem to show up? Did the previous owner have the first level III
service done at 30,000? If so, why were'nt the brakes done then, before the
damage got any worse.

My reaction as well. As I've stated a couple
times before, I did my fronts at 40k and found
the rotors perfect and 1/3 the pad gone, 2/3
remaining. Now I live in a flat area and I
drive reasonably. I have a stick and I use
compression braking a lot. So maybe I'm not
an average owner.

 

[DAW]

Do you live on the same planet I do?

Yes or least got some worst case prices before buying.


If you trust him overall yes.


there may only be one type available at this time

Depends on car. Some are $10 /set others $200

Just another used car buyer who got duped. I'd never pay more than $5k for a
used car and it would be a project car that I know needs $$$ into it. I cannot
understand who would pay more than $10k for a used car when new ones are only a
bit more.

 

[Paul Pluzhnikov]

The bill was as follows:

Here is my brake bill for 97 OBW @ 91K miles done by "trusted"
Suby Specialties in Monrovia, CA, using genuine Subaru parts:

Per axle:
Pads $95.95
R&R and machine rotors: $84.00
Replace pads: $56.00

For a total of $472 (before tax).

Are pads really that expensive?

Looks like it.
For comparison, non-subaru pads range from $28 to
$70 on the web. The rotors for $33 to $66 ...

Cheers,

 

[TG]

Check NAPA, rotors for under $50 each and ceramic pads well priced. TG

 

[alex3324]

It doesn't matter what the consumer's over-the-counter price is. You'renot
buying the parts, the mechanic is. It seems your mechanic charged the
full retail MSRP for the replacement parts. Very common in the auto
repair industry. Unless you can do the work yourself, you are at the mercy
of the mechanic and the prices he charges. One question to ask the
mechanic before replacing the rotors is: can they be machined? Were they
at or below the minimum thickness? At 42k miles, they would probebly be
near the wear-limit, but since the rear brakes weren't working properly,
the rotors might still have been serviceable. Ahh hindsight.

Alex

 

[Todd H.]

Should I have shied away from a car with four bad rotors at 42K
miles?

It is an indicator that the previous owner wasn't terriby ginger with
the vehicle. However, late model subaru's are damned hard to find, so
your pickings are typically pretty slim and it's a tradeoff.

As a result of this slim pickings phenomenon, I ended up purchasing
new.

Are pads really that expensive?

I paid about $30 for a pair of front pads for my vehicle recently at
an AutoZone. They seem to be working fine.

Sorry to hear of your story. Looks like you did pay a pretty penny,
but given that you'd gotten a car with brakes in that bad a shape, you
weren't exactly in a great position to drive around and get a lot of
prices.

Don't beat yourself up. Enjoy the car, and remember that brake job is
just 2 car payments, and hopefully you saved more than $800 buying
late model used than getting a new one. Wrap yourself up in the "used
late model Subes are a bitch to find," and go on with life.

Best Regards,

 

[Leon Li]

It is not that bad, I bought a pair of rotor + pads from Pepsboy for $169
(front), a comparable job done by the same place costed me $350 (rear). You
had front and rear done and used OEM parts. A couple of years ago, subaru
dealer did a rear brake job for me for $600 (pad, rotors, fluid, front valve
cover gasket, etc).

Repair shop does not shop around, I had a starter replacement quoted by
dealer for $300+ dollar (new), but a rebuilt one can be found at $80. I
ended up did it myself.

Maybe you should get a quote first before authorizing the job, if the parts
costs are too high, see if they allow you bringing in your own parts.

 

[Guest]

Seems to me the a 2000 OB would have still been under factory warrantee
with only 42K miles. ??? I bought a '97 OB in 1999 and the "ole slap"
started 2 years later at 49K miles. Idaho dealer put in a short block
at no cost to me.

FWIW: After a '84 BMW brake experience in 1986 I feel I've learned that only
OEM should be used. At 40K the disks were warped from heavy thoughtless use
(owner a lawyer) so bought cheap. Those new disks warped almost immediately.
OEM brakes were still good 4 years later when I sold the car at 110K miles;
and the car would still pulldown quickly from 110mph with no fade.

One motto is: Replace fluid every 2 years, NEVER use brake fluid from old can!
Brake fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs water, that water in the fluid will
boil under heavy use and brakes will fade badly! Plus, it can rust pistons
inside the calipers and elsewhere. Been there, done that on '68 Porsche that
was poorly maintained!

Don

Check NAPA, rotors for under $50 each and ceramic pads well priced. TG

Username munged by FixNews

 

[Todd H.]

Seems to me the a 2000 OB would have still been under factory warrantee
with only 42K miles. ???

Powertrain and emissions onlky at that point.

I bought a '97 OB in 1999 and the "ole slap" started 2 years later
at 49K miles. Idaho dealer put in a short block at no cost to me.

Likely cus the engine is part of the the powertrain.

 

[Catherine Hampton]

First of all, the car was not well maintained if the brakes were completely
shot at 42,000. Either that or the mileage wasn't right. Sounds to me like the
car was "rode hard and put away wet", and if I were you, I'd be waiting for the
next problem to show up? Did the previous owner have the first level III
service done at 30,000? If so, why were'nt the brakes done then, before the
damage got any worse.

I agree. However, badly worn brakes at an unexpectedly young age isn't unusual
with used Subarus, not (as far as I know) because of any design flaws in the
car, but because people drive them harder than they do some Toyota or Honda.
AWD, low center of gravity, and somewhat more powerful engines can tempt a
driver to see what the car will do, again and again. <G> (Yes, I am speaking
from experience.)

I bought mine four years ago -- a 1998 Outback Sport with just over 30k miles on
it. The brakes were squeaking so much that I asked the dealer that had sold it
to me to take a look. It turned out that they were badly worn, although not
nearly to the level that this user reported. The dealer, fortunately, was
embarrassed that they hadn't spotted and fixed the breaks before selling it to
me. So I got the brake job for free, and it was a good one -- the new brakes
lasted about 40,000 miles before I had to get them redone.

Sorry, my friend, but I think you got took.

I agree. I've bought used cars all my life, but nowadays insist on taking any
car I am seriously considering to an independent diagnostic/test center for a
full test before I will sign the papers. The $100 or so that the center charges
me is money well spent -- I know *everything* about that car before I sign on
the dotted line.



--
Catherine Hampton <(e-mail address removed)>
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>

(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)

 

[Surendar Jeyadev]

My reaction as well. As I've stated a couple
times before, I did my fronts at 40k and found
the rotors perfect and 1/3 the pad gone, 2/3
remaining. Now I live in a flat area and I
drive reasonably. I have a stick and I use
compression braking a lot. So maybe I'm not
an average owner.

Interesting. Sounds a lot like me -- standard transmission, flat area,
vanilla driving. It is my third Subaru. But the 2000 Legacy wagon, with
49K miles on it, had very bad front brakes and the rear brakes had to
be "resurfaced". Cost: ~$600 (US).

I take the car in every 7,500 miles and get the "usual" done as well
as the "specials" at 15K and 30K. Can't see how much more maintenance
one can give. And, it is the first time in 20 years of Subaru driving
that I have had to deal with the brakes, at all.

 

[JW]

First of all, the car was not well maintained if the brakes were
completely
shot at 42,000. Either that or the mileage wasn't right. Sounds to me
like the
car was "rode hard and put away wet", and if I were you, I'd be waiting
for the
next problem to show up? Did the previous owner have the first level III
service done at 30,000? If so, why were'nt the brakes done then, before
the
damage got any worse.

Some folk think the best place to rest their left foot while driving is
the brake pedal! Subaru actually MAKES a fine place just to the left of
the brake pedal to rest your left foot! You'll then find your brakes
lasting a LOT longer! I replaced my half worn brake pads on my 85 Turbo
XT a 100,000 miles just cause I wanted them to be new then! I did not
need rotors at the time. I replaced them again at 200,000 but again they
didn't need it and the rotors still looked and acted brand new. At
300,000 I took the brake pads out but just put them back in again. At
400,000, I put back in the pads I took out at 200,000. I have about 3,000
miles left to go to 500,000 but the rotors still look very good.

 

[L. Kreh]

I have no idea how the car was driven to comment whether you should
have shied away from it. As far as what you paid, I'd say you were
foolish not to have the work done at a dealer for that price. I had
the rotors and pads replaced on my 99 OBW at a dealer last year (with
Subaru parts) and it cost me only about $50 more than you paid.

 

[H. Daniel Chesney]

For all the parts and labor you required that does not seem out of line.
I had a similar experience with a 1999 Impreza RS 2.5. If it had been
caught earlier and the rotors had not been scored you would have been
able to resurface them, rather than replace them, and saved a bunch.
Subaru parts are also expensive. Don't expect to pay Chevy prices for
them, more like Porsche prices. Subaru also seems to do little to
encourage the after market manufactures to produce alternatives to the
dealer supplied parts, no competition means you pay more. In my case I
had the work done at a brand name brake specialist. Even they were
surprised to find that they had to get the parts from a Subaru dealer
rather than being able to get them from their suppliers. They were also
a little dismayed at the price of the parts because it was their policy
to lifetime warranty the pads as well. What they also found on my car
was that the brake pads had stuck or jammed in the calipers rather that
the pistons seizing which is usually the case when you experience
premature brake wear. Even when they tried to instal the new pads they
found that they did not float as freely as they should so they ground
them down a little to ensure they did not stick again. I live in a cold
climate where road salt is used and they felt that the design of the
Subaru calipers made them susceptible to sticking. They encouraged me to
take advantage of their policy of providing free annual break
inspections to prevent this in the future. Maybe there is a brand name
outlet in your area that does the same.