I'm Tired Of These Ungrateful Hurricane Victims

Actually, if your place of employment offers insurance, you get the
opportunity to get insurance - usually with some sort of nominal
payment required on the employee's part. Many opt not to pay this and
to simply take their chances. The employees that do so show up as
"uninsured" in the statistics.

Lots of jobs do not give insurance, or pay too little for people get insurance.
There are 45 million Americans with no insurance and 25 million with worthless
non-group insurance. Individual insurance is nearly worthless because you'll
get dropped or your rates will be raised to $3000.00/month if you develop
a chronic condition. The American health care system GUARANTEES that 70
million of its citizens cannot get real insurance because enough jobs with
insurance to cover the remaining 70 million DO NOT EXIST. In other words
the American system is essentially a game of musical chairs.
 
you say >"give every person in this country medical care" < .Well, I
have read the Constitution and can find no right to health care.

We don't have any "right" to police or fire protection either, but the
government's constitutional mandate is to "promote the general welfare".
Oh, you
have a right to try to purchase health care.

Most people with chronic medical conditions cannot always afford the
$3000/per month to get a decent level of insurance.
Or ask a charity to provide
it.

There is a gap of 45,000,000 American citizens whom charity does not
have the resources to fill. Can you personally make up the gap?

But there are no 'rights' to health care, or jobs, or houses or
food. Those are called 'wishes'. And , guaranteeing them to you - would
create a slave of someone else.

Only 1% of those "slaves" in Canada say they would rather have the
plainly stupid American system.
We are in massive debt and were before the war, partly BECAUSE of
socialized programs. If i can get food from the gumint, and housing from
the gumint, and medical from the gumint - why should I work? I'm no big

It is costing you MORE money -- about twice as much money -- to stop your
fellow Americans from getting health care. The US system costs nearly
TWICE as much per person (because private systems require many more
bureaucrats) as other first world countries pay to insure their entire
populations. And they have better average health statistics than
Americans. So the stupidity and greed of the American system is costing
$$$$$. It is also costing more than 18,000 American lives per year,
according to the Institute of Medicine. So based on ten year averages
Americans are 90 times (180,000 vs 3000) more likely to die from losing
their health insurance than from terrorism.
 
Yeah, those pesky Iraqis need more mass child graves so some folks in
Well, it may very well be their CHILDREN who would rather have jet skis
than healthy parents. Americans in general are among the most medicated
and longest lived humans (hell - animals period) on earth. Is there some

Nope. Most other industrialized countries have either a higher or a
comparable life expectancy.

http://www.oecd.org/document/16/0,2340,en_2825_495642_2085200_1_1_1_1,00.html

I think it's particularly harsh for the gumint to put guns to our heads
to force us to pay for someone elses health care - especially when there

Every other industrialized country in the world has this "particularly
harsh" policy. And they pay about half of what we pay for health care and
get better results. Do you want to know what really is particularly
harsh? 18,000 Americans die every year because they don't have health
insurance, compared with 0 combined deaths from all of the rest of the
first world countries.
 
It is very common. If you have a chronic health condition like many people in
the 50's and 60's and you do not have GROUP health insurance (decent individual
insurance would cost $3000.00/month) it is nearly impossible for middle class
people to get proper treatment. You can also get screwed very easily even if
you do have group insurance. The US health care system is totally fucked up by
the standards of the rest of the industrialized world and gets worse and worse
every year.

So don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, you whiny bitch.
 
Individual insurance is nearly worthless because you'll
get dropped or your rates will be raised to $3000.00/month if you develop
a chronic condition.

Bullshit. I have individual insurance and it does NOT work like car
insurance. I pay the same as everyone else in my age group and health level
regardless of what I develop after I have the policy. While the premiums
increase each year at my annual renewal due to my age, it is against the law
in my state for them to penalize me for making claims. All they can do is
put people in a riskier level for pre-existing conditions. For example:
when I first purchased my policy, I was a level 3 due to an injury within
the past 12 months. A year later, I renewed as a level 2 at a cheaper
premioum (injury within past 24 months) and again 2 years later as a level 1
(even lower premium) since I had no problems in that time. Now that I am a
1, they cannot downgrade me if I renew each year regardless of what
problems I develop - even chronic ones.
 
Only 1% of those "slaves" in Canada say they would rather have the
plainly stupid American system.
I assume those are the one percent who can afford to come to the U.S. for
surgeries instead of waiting months or years on a waiting list in Canada.
 
harsh" policy. And they pay about half of what we pay for health care and
get better results. Do you want to know what really is particularly
harsh? 18,000 Americans die every year because they don't have health
insurance, compared with 0 combined deaths from all of the rest of the
first world countries.
What liberal rag did these bullshit statistics come from?
 
Vic Vega said:
So don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, you whiny
bitch.
Now there's a REAL gentleman: gracious, well-mannered and well-spoken
........
 
Vic Vega said:
What liberal rag did these bullshit statistics come from?
Language, Victor, language! Please confine your violence to your home,
where its results are, if not welcomed, at least insured ........
 
So don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, you whiny bitch.

I have group health insurance, idiot. But 80 million Americans do not have
group insurance, and they're screwed by a shitty health care system that
is fundamentally flawed. Thanks for providing evidence that archconservative
nutjobs are so self-centered and selfish freaks that someone caring about their
fellow citizens is completely beyond their comprehension.

It is outrageous that Americans are still stuck with a health care system that
is a piece of shit while every other industrialized country has a far more
efficient universal system and usually have better health statistics and longer
life spans. Polls consistently show that Americans would prefer to have a
universal health care system. And since the current US system gets worse and
worse every year, it is only a matter of time before the US catches up to the
rest of the industrialized world.


*Health Economics 101*
By Paul Krugman
The New York Times

Monday 14 November 2005

Several readers have asked me a good question: we rely on free
markets to deliver most goods and services, so why shouldn't we do
the same thing for health care? Some correspondents were
belligerent, others honestly curious. Either way, they deserve an
answer.

It comes down to three things: risk, selection and social justice.

First, about risk: in any given year, a small fraction of the
population accounts for the bulk of medical expenses. In 2002 a mere
5 percent of Americans incurred almost half of U.S. medical costs.
If you find yourself one of the unlucky 5 percent, your medical
expenses will be crushing, unless you're very wealthy - or you have
good insurance.

But good insurance is hard to come by, because private markets
for health insurance suffer from a severe case of the economic
problem known as "adverse selection," in which bad risks drive out good.

To understand adverse selection, imagine what would happen if
there were only one health insurance company, and everyone was
required to buy the same insurance policy. In that case, the
insurance company could charge a price reflecting the medical costs
of the average American, plus a small extra charge for
administrative expenses.

But in the real insurance market, a company that offered such a
policy to anyone who wanted it would lose money hand over fist.
Healthy people, who don't expect to face high medical bills, would
go elsewhere, or go without insurance. Meanwhile, those who bought
the policy would be a self-selected group of people likely to have
high medical costs. And if the company responded to this selection
bias by charging a higher price for insurance, it would drive away
even more healthy people.

That's why insurance companies don't offer a standard health
insurance policy, available to anyone willing to buy it. Instead,
they devote a lot of effort and money to screening applicants,
selling insurance only to those considered unlikely to have high
costs, while rejecting those with pre-existing conditions or other
indicators of high future expenses.

This screening process is the main reason private health
insurers spend a much higher share of their revenue on
administrative costs than do government insurance programs like
Medicare, which doesn't try to screen anyone out. That is, private
insurance companies spend large sums not on providing medical care,
but on denying insurance to those who need it most.

What happens to those denied coverage? Citizens of advanced
countries - the United States included - don't believe that their
fellow citizens should be denied essential health care because they
can't afford it. And this belief in social justice gets translated
into action, however imperfectly. Some of those unable to get
private health insurance are covered by Medicaid. Others receive
"uncompensated" treatment, which ends up being paid for either by
the government or by higher medical bills for the insured. So we
have a huge private health care bureaucracy whose main purpose is,
in effect, to pass the buck to taxpayers.

At this point some readers may object that I'm painting too dark
a picture. After all, most Americans too young to receive Medicare
do have private health insurance. So does the free market work
better than I've suggested? No: to the extent that we do have a
working system of private health insurance, it's the result of huge
though hidden subsidies.

Private health insurance in America comes almost entirely in the
form of employment-based coverage: insurance provided by
corporations as part of their pay packages. The key to this coverage
is the fact that compensation in the form of health benefits, as
opposed to wages, isn't taxed. One recent study suggests that this
tax subsidy may be as large as $190 billion per year. And even with
this subsidy, employment-based coverage is in rapid decline.

I'm not an opponent of markets. On the contrary, I've spent a
lot of my career defending their virtues. But the fact is that the
free market doesn't work for health insurance, and never did. All we
ever had was a patchwork, semiprivate system supported by large
government subsidies.

That system is now failing. And a rigid belief that markets are
always superior to government programs - a belief that ignores basic
economics as well as experience - stands in the way of rational
thinking about what should replace it.
 
What liberal rag did these bullshit statistics come from?

That "liberal rag" would the National Academy of Sciences and the Institute of
Medicine.

http://www.iom.edu/faq.asp?id=2959

The National Academy of Sciences was created by the federal government to
be an adviser on scientific and technological matters. However, the Academy
and its associated organizations (e.g., the Institute of Medicine) are
private, non-governmental, organizations and do not receive direct federal
appropriations for their work. Studies undertaken for the government by
the Academy complex usually are funded out of appropriations made available
to federal agencies. Most of the studies carried out by the Academy complex
are at the request of government agencies.
 
I assume those are the one percent who can afford to come to the U.S. for
surgeries instead of waiting months or years on a waiting list in Canada.

When you assume you just make an ass of yourself. Every Canadian usenet post
I've read says that they do not have to wait a long time for important things.
I personally had to wait 2 months in Texas for the same medical procedure
somebody in Ontario only had to wait 3 days for. The American health care
system is a piece of shit even for people lucky enough to have insurance. (In
my state of Texas 1/4 of the population does not). Americans have a limited
choice of doctors approved by our crummy little PPO or HMO, if you have
insurance at all, while Canadians can see just about any doctor they want. On
the other hand at least Americans have a bunch of paperwork to deal with
also...


The New York Times <http://www.nytimes.com/>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 13, 2005
Being a Patient


Treated for Illness, Then Lost in Labyrinth of Bills

By KATIE HAFNER

When Bracha Klausner returned home after an extended hospital stay for a
ruptured intestine three years ago, she found stacks of mail from
doctors and hospitals waiting for her.

There were so many envelopes - some of them very thick - that at first,
Mrs. Klausner, 77, could not bring herself to open them, and she stored
them in large shopping bags in her Manhattan apartment.

When she finally did open some of the envelopes, there were pages filled
with dozens of carefully detailed items, each accompanied by a service
code: "Partial thrombo 2300214 102.00," "KUB Flat 2651040 466.00."

On the 15th page or so of each bill, a "balance forward" line listed
amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars. One totaled $77,858.04.

Another mailing, from her insurance company, clearly said, in large
type, "This is not a bill." But she could make no sense of the remark
codes: "G7 - Your benefit is based on the difference between Medicare's
allowable expense and the amount Medicare paid" or "QN - Your claim may
have been separated for processing purposes."

Mrs. Klausner's experience is shared by millions of Americans who,
frustrated and confused, find themselves devoting enormous amounts of
time and energy to sorting out their medical bills.

Walk into any drugstore, and the next few minutes of your life are
fairly predictable. After considering the choices, you make your
purchases and head for the cashier. Seconds after the transaction, you
are handed a receipt that reports to the penny what you paid for each
product, along with its brand, its size, and the date, time and location
of the purchase. But become a patient, and you enter a world of
paperwork so surreal that it belongs in one of Kafka's tales of the
triumph of faceless bureaucracies. And although some insurers and
hospitals are trying to streamline and simplify bills, the efforts have
been piecemeal.

Medical paperwork is a world of co-payments and co-insurers,
deductibles, exclusions and contracted fees. Nothing is as it seems:
patients receive statements that often do not reflect what is actually
owed; telephone calls to customer service agents are at best
time-consuming and at worst fruitless. The explanations of benefits that
insurers send out - known as E.O.B.'s - are filled with unintelligible
codes.

The system is so impenetrable that it mystifies even the most knowledgeable.

"I'm the president's senior adviser on health information technology,
and when I get an E.O.B. for my 4-year-old's care, I can't figure out
what happened, or what I'm supposed to do," said Dr. David Brailer,
National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, whose office is
in the Department of Health and Human Services. "I can't figure out what
care it was related to or who did what."

Dr. Blackford Middleton, a professor at Harvard Medical School with
special training in health services research, said he did not fare much
better than Dr. Brailer.

"I understand the words of diagnoses and procedures," he said. "But
codes? No. Or how things are paid or not paid? I don't understand that."

Dr. Brailer said he often used an analogy to describe the current state
of medical billing.

"Suppose you walk into a restaurant," he said, "and you don't get a
menu, you don't get any choice of what food you'll eat, they don't tell
you what it is when they're serving it to you, they don't tell you what
it's going to cost."

"Then, weeks or months later, you get a bill that tells you all the food
you ate and the drinks you had, some of which you remember and some you
don't, and although you get the bill, you still can't figure out what
you really owe," Dr. Brailer said.

Some people make valiant efforts to sort through bills and claims, but
end up throwing up their hands; others ignore them, until they are
pursued by collection agencies; still others, basically healthy but
weary at the prospect of a paperwork fusillade, stop going to the doctor
altogether.

Piles Upon Piles

In the days before managed care, most insurance plans operated on a
fee-for-service basis. Patients paid 20 percent of medical fees;
insurers paid 80 percent. But as health care costs have continued to
rise, many patients are being required to pay an ever-larger part of
their medical bills, and deductibles continue to increase. And to keep
the system churning, close to 30 cents of every dollar spent on health
care goes for administration, much of it spent generating bills and
explanations of benefits.

"The number of bureaucrats between the point of service and the final
cash reckoning is just incredible," said Dr. Thomas Delbanco, a
professor of primary care medicine at Harvard Medical School who is a
leader in the field of patient-centered care.

For many people, the piles of paperwork they must contend with reinforce
a simmering discontent with a system that aggravates tensions among
patients, hospitals, doctors and insurers.

Insurance companies are, by and large, unapologetic.

"Even though the amount of paperwork a patient has to deal with might
seem to be a lot, it would be much worse if there wasn't a unifying
organization like a health plan easing that burden," said Dr. Alan
Sokolow, chief medical officer at Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield in New York.

This might come as a surprise to Ellen Mayer, an artist who lives in
Chester, N.Y. Ms. Mayer, 54, has a rare type of gastrointestinal cancer
that requires constant monitoring through blood work, CT scans and PET
scans.

The paperwork nightmare started for Ms. Mayer when her oncologist
switched hospitals. Everything suddenly seemed to need a justification,
or a new piece of paper with an authorization.

The stacks of papers, folders and Post-It notes related to Ms. Mayer's
treatment have started to take over her house. They fill manila
envelopes, boxes and files, which fill closets. They spill from the
dining room table onto chairs.

"You can't just be sick," she said. "You have to be sick and be drowning
in paperwork."

So overwhelming has the paperwork grown that Ms. Mayer has considered
giving up and ceasing all treatment because of the bureaucratic hassle
that accompanies it.

"It's comical, it's unbelievable," she said. "And I think to myself,
'What if I was an elderly person, or a single person? What if I wasn't
healthy enough to handle it?' "

Dr. Michael Mustille, associate executive director of the Permanente
Federation in Oakland, Calif., said medical paperwork often delivered "a
double psychological whammy."

"People get these things that look expensive that they can't
understand," Dr. Mustille said, "and then there's the worry that the
people they've paid for insurance may decline to assume responsibility
for it."

In Mrs. Klausner's case, her son bought her an elaborate paper
organizer, hoping it might help her face the chaos. She never used it.

Creditors began to call. Whenever a collection notice showed up, Mrs.
Klausner panicked and wrote a check or reached for the telephone to call
her son for help.

In the end, Medicare and United Healthcare paid most of Mrs. Klausner's
bills, which added up to more than $150,000. And although the unwelcome
mail has ceased, she cannot bring herself to throw out the bags filled
mostly with unopened envelopes dating back to 2002, as if doing so might
violate a law.

Dr. Middleton went through something similar with his elderly mother,
Dugan Middleton, a former nurse who died of thyroid cancer last February
at age 79.

Mrs. Middleton, who had lived alone in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.,
preferred to handle the paperwork herself.

"It went on and on, with her reconciling her accounts with a lot of
different doctors," Dr. Middleton said.

He said that his mother wrote check after check and that "I'm sure she
was paying many of the same bills twice."

His medical credentials notwithstanding, Dr. Middleton was at a loss.
"It was ridiculously complex," he recalled.

Finally, in the last months of his mother's life, Dr. Middleton hired a
social worker who knew how to navigate the system to help with the bills.

How did things get this bad?

Most health care in the United States
is fragmented and profit-driven, a system in which everyone but the
patient is meant to benefit financially.

"Fragmentation is a fact of life in health care, and people consider
that to be one of the most fundamental problems," Dr. Brailer said. "We
pay by the piece. Everybody gets paid individually to do something: to
see a patient, to admit someone, to do a lab test, to do a prescription,
so health care is swamped by detailed, line-item bills."

After an office visit, a physician sends a diagnostic code to the
insurer, which then decides the level of payment. These codes differ
from the codes the insurer uses in the E.O.B.'s it sends to patients to
explain its decisions.

The billing codes used by hospitals are something else entirely.

"Each of them has their own system of paperwork, with their own billing
codes," said Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, a health
care advocacy group.

"Everyone is bogged down by this: the physicians, the hospitals, and
ultimately it reverberates to the consumer," Mr. Pollack said. "And to
the extent the consumer sees the bill, it's like reading hieroglyphics."

Mr. Pollack and other health care experts said they believed that only a
small percentage of people end up calling their insurance company to
inquire about a claim or to dispute a decision. Still fewer call a
hospital to go over a bill they believe might contain errors.

The Navigator

In late 2003, Bonnie MacKellar's son Elias, then nearly 2, stopped
eating. Then he stopped talking and walking. Elias had stage IV
neuroblastoma, a highly malignant tumor
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/...pics/tumors/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier>
of the nervous system.

Though pushed to their emotional limits, Ms. MacKellar and her husband,
Thomas Dube, refused to buckle until the bills started to appear in the
mail each day: hospital bills amounting to tens of thousands of dollars;
invoices from doctors she did not remember meeting; E.O.B.'s from her
insurance company that explained nothing.

"It is hard to describe what it is like to be confronted with mounds of
scary claims and bills when you have a 2-year-old who is extremely ill,
who needs constant nursing and doesn't have a great chance of
surviving," Ms. MacKellar said. "And to sit in a hospital room, on hold
with the insurance company for 30 minutes or more only to have your
child start puking just as you get a rep on the line."

The E.O.B.'s seemed to serve little purpose beyond engendering fear.
They were detailed enough ("radiology services 2/19/04"), but when it
came to understanding the boxes listing the amounts charged, the amounts
not covered, the fees allowed, the available benefit and the remark code
(IT, 29, and the ever-mysterious QN ), Ms. MacKellar and her husband
were at a loss.

One statement that said, "Plan pays $00.00, patient pays $56,750.00,"
caused panic.

The remark code "07" stated, "These charges are for services provided
after this patient's coverage was canceled."

There had been no cancellation of coverage, but convincing the insurance
company of that fact was an ordeal.

The breaking point came when the group number on the health plan
changed, and Ms. MacKellar was unable to convince the insurance company
that it was billing under the wrong number.

In despair, she consulted a social services agency, which put her in
touch with Lin Osborn, a private consultant fluent in the arcane
language of health care billing. For a fee, Ms. MacKellar was told, Ms.
Osborn could take all the paperwork off her hands.

An expert in deciphering insurance and hospital billing codes, Ms.
Osborn spent several days straight working on the case and took care of
the entire mess, Ms. MacKellar said.

Still Searching

Although there is no single solution to the medical billing morass, Dr.
Brailer, of the Health and Human Services Department, said that the
increasing use of electronic records to enable insurers, physicians,
hospitals and pharmacies to share data would help.

And in some segments of the health care system, efforts are being made
to simplify and cut down on paperwork. Some insurance carriers, for
example, are reducing the number of E.O.B.'s they send out, posting them
online instead.

For the past 18 months, Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina
has been working to reduce the total amount of paper it sends out.

"When there's no remaining financial liability, then we don't send the
E.O.B.'s," said Bob Greczyn, president of Blue Cross Blue Shield of
North Carolina.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina
is offering physicians an electronic card reader that lets patients find
out how much they owe while they are still in the doctor's office.

In another effort to improve the system, the Patient Friendly Billing
Project, led by the Healthcare Financial Management Association, is
working with insurance companies on a long-term project to make bills
more comprehensible.

Still, Dr. Brailer said that, on the whole, "there isn't a lot under
way" in terms of efforts to fix the system.

Dr. Brailer pointed out that there had been frequent calls for a
standardized insurance billing form, which would sharply reduce
duplication and paperwork costs and "make patient management of these as
simple as online checking."

But, he said, "this has not gone beyond the wishful-thinking level
because the changeover would cost a lot."

Mitch Mayne, 38, is a marketing executive in San Francisco who considers
himself basically healthy.

Mr. Mayne went to his doctor three times between March and June for the
same thing: recurring bronchitis

Yet the explanation of benefits statements he received from his insurer
after each office visit differed drastically in the amount he owed,
varying from $10.66 to $90, with no explanation of the services provided.

"What did I do on June 27 that was different than what I did on April 6
that was different than what I did on March 4?" Mr. Mayne asked.

When he calls for an explanation of the E.O.B.'s, he said, the most
tangible result he sees is a new card in the mail with no indication of
the amount he owes as a co-payment printed on the card.

"I'm paying through the nose for this premium, and when I go to the
doctor it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not they'll pay it,"
said Mr. Mayne. "It seems like it depends on the mood of whoever happens
to be doing the claim that day, or on the phases of the moon."

Mr. Mayne recently grew so fed up that he decided to try to beat the
bronchitis on his own. "I can't deal with all this paperwork," he
recalled saying. "It's just too much of a hassle." That turned out to be
a mistake. Mr. Mayne became so sick that he finally relented and saw his
doctor.

What if something truly catastrophic should happen to the state of his
health?

"Oh wow, I hadn't even thought of that," Mr. Mayne said. "That's
actually a pretty scary proposition. If I can't manage my health care as
a healthy individual, the prospect of trying to manage it and be really
sick at the same time - I don't know that I could do it."
 
Why is this in rec.bicycles.misc??

I have group health insurance, idiot. But 80 million Americans do not have
group insurance, and they're screwed by a shitty health care system that
is fundamentally flawed. Thanks for providing evidence that archconservative
nutjobs are so self-centered and selfish freaks that someone caring about their
fellow citizens is completely beyond their comprehension.

Yeah, blame it on the "archconservatives", sure. If the left had really
wanted a health system reform, they could have chosen to spend their
majority in 92-94 on that instead of going out of their way to irritate
bubba-democrats by going after their guns. No, putting a temporary ban
on the manufacture of a few lame jam-o-matics was more important than
getting a national health insurance plan in place.

Now, I'll tell you why.

If you restrict the amount of money going into national health care, you
have to restrict the expenses faced by doctors, hospitals, and medical
supply makers. Can you cut pay to nurses, orderlies, secretaries, techs,
etc? Nope, those folks are in the core democratic wage class. Can you
cut availability of MRI's, tests, etc? No, patients will go
beserk. Can you cut their real estate rents and utility bills? Not
really. Can you cut their insurance costs.. hmmmm... maybe. But
wait, guess who is the recipients of that largess?? Trial lawyers,
a(the?) core democrat supplier of campaign funds. So democrats ended up
having to choose between embracing single payer with US style costs, and
the tax increases that would be required to pay those costs, or screwing
their trial lawyer supporters by capping payouts from insurance pools for
malpractice and other liabilities in order to achieve acceptable expense
levels that wouldn't result in a tax payer revolt.

Sooner or later, the Democrats will control Legislature and Executive
again, and their taste for actually achieving universal health care will
once again... disappear.
it is only
a matter of time before the US catches up to the rest of the
industrialized world.

The day our lawyers will agree to accept the same degree of payout as our
Northern and European competitors, maybe. Until then? Can't happen.

I actually hope I'm wrong...
 
Bullshit. I have individual insurance and it does NOT work like car
insurance. I pay the same as everyone else in my age group and health level
regardless of what I develop after I have the policy. While the premiums
increase each year at my annual renewal due to my age, it is against the law
in my state for them to penalize me for making claims. All they can do is
put people in a riskier level for pre-existing conditions. For example:
when I first purchased my policy, I was a level 3 due to an injury within
the past 12 months. A year later, I renewed as a level 2 at a cheaper
premioum (injury within past 24 months) and again 2 years later as a level 1
(even lower premium) since I had no problems in that time. Now that I am a
1, they cannot downgrade me if I renew each year regardless of what
problems I develop - even chronic ones.

Then you're lucky to be in a 'big government' state where government tightly
regulates free market insurance. Most Americans aren't so lucky. But you're
still taking a hugh risk because if you develop a chronic condition they will
figure out some way to stick it to you or cancel your policy sooner or later.
If nothing else they will just pull out of the your market for a year
when they get too many unprofitable policies. Like all the people who
erroneously thought their insurance would pay for the hurricane damage to their
houses, you have a false sense of security. When you find out you aren't as
protected as you thought, it will be too late and you will be screwed. Group
insurance is the only serious insurance in America.

But in America even having group insurance is no guarantee you're safe, while
individual insurance is an order of magnitute more risky.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 23, 2005
New York Times
Being a Patient


When Even Health Insurance Is No Safeguard

By JOHN LELAND

CAMBY, Ind. - Until the fourth trip to the hospital in 1998, Zachery
Dorsett's parents thought their son was an average child who was having
trouble getting over a passing illness. He was 7 months old, and it was
his second case of pneumonia.

The Dorsetts, Sharon and Arnold, were concerned about Zachery's health,
but they were not worried about the financial consequences. They were a
young, middle-income couple, with health insurance that covered 90
percent of doctors' bills and most of the costs of prescription drugs.

Then the bills started coming in. After a week in the hospital, the
couple's share came to $1,100 - not catastrophic, but more than their
small savings. They enrolled in a 90-day payment plan with the hospital
and struggled to make the monthly installments of nearly $400, hoping
that they did not hit any other expenses.

But Zachery, who was eventually found to have an immune system disorder,
kept getting sick, and the expense of his treatment - fees for tests,
hospitalizations, medicine - kept mounting, eventually costing the
family $12,000 to $20,000 a year. Earlier this year, the Dorsetts
stopped making mortgage payments on their ranch house, in a subdivision
outside Indianapolis, because they could not afford them. In March, they
filed for bankruptcy.

"Zach was really mad at us when we told him we were going to lose the
house," Mrs. Dorsett said. "We told him we had to make a choice: whether
to pay for medical bills or the house."

She added: "I didn't want the kids to hate their father for working all
the time, but I also didn't want them to think we were irresponsible. I
was worried about Zach feeling guilty or his sister blaming him that she
has to leave her friends. But whatever we gave up is a small price to
pay for his health."

Never have patients had so many medical options to extend, enrich or
alter their lives. But these new options are expensive, and with them
has come a change for which many Americans - even those with health
insurance - are financially ill prepared.

After decades in which private and government insurance covered a
progressively larger share of medical expenses, insurance companies are
now shifting more costs to consumers, in the form of much higher
deductibles, co-payments or premiums. At the same time, Americans are
saving less and carrying higher levels of household debt, and even
insured families are exposed to medical expenses that did not exist a
decade ago. Many, like the Dorsetts, do not realize how vulnerable they
are until the bills arrive.

Lawyers and accountants say that for the more than 1.5 million American
families who filed for bankruptcy protection last year, the most common
causes were job loss and medical expenses. New bankruptcy legislation,
which went into effect Oct. 17, requires middle-income debtors to repay
a greater share of their debt.

The Fight for Solvency

The Dorsetts' filing came after years of accumulating relatively modest
bills, often just co-payments on doctor visits or prescriptions. Almost
since Zachery's birth, they had finished each year with more credit card
debt than they had the year before. Even when they took out a second
mortgage to pay off their credit cards, by the end of the year they were
in debt again, with higher mortgage payments. And each year, their
projected expenses were greater.

On a late summer morning, Mrs. Dorsett, now 32, sat with her son in Room
4013 at St. Vincent Children's Hospital in Indianapolis as a colorless
infusion of immune globulin, a treatment made from blood plasma, dripped
slowly into his left arm, supplying the antibodies that his immune
system does not produce.

The monthly infusion, which has become a regular part of his childhood
along with soccer practice and family camping trips, costs $54,000 a
year, of which the Dorsetts will pay more than $5,000.

"My friends don't understand it," Mrs. Dorsett said, looking back at the
family's relentless, inevitable process of insolvency. "They think, How
could it get so bad so quick? Unless you have a sick kid, you don't know
what it's like."

For the Dorsetts, this is what the end looked like, according to the
family's bankruptcy filing: They had $1,431 in their checking and
savings accounts; they owed $29,146 on various credit cards; and after
refinancing their house to pay down their credit cards, they could no
longer afford the payments on their house or car.

Mr. Dorsett, who works on commercial heating and air conditioning
systems, sometimes stitching together 90-hour weeks, earns $68,000 a
year. It is more money than his father ever made, but not enough to
cover the bills, especially with the monthly infusions starting.

Mrs. Dorsett recounts the impact their medical expenses have had on the
family: They buy their clothing at yard sales, and skip vacations and
restaurant meals. Mr. and Mrs. Dorsett argue, like many couples, mainly
about money. Mr. Dorsett has had to work nights and weekends, with
little contact with his wife and children; Mrs. Dorsett has tried to
create a home for the children.

"We don't live a frivolous life, but I need to make my kids' life
normal," she said. "They still need bikes. My husband says, 'Kids in the
third world don't have those things.' I say, 'We don't live in a third
world country.' "

As the bills mounted, it was Mrs. Dorsett who forced her husband to
acknowledge that he could not simply work more hours. "I showed him,
even if I went back to work, we'd still be in debt in 10 years," Mrs.
Dorsett said. "Our kids could not go to college."

In a study of 1,771 people who filed for bankruptcy, reported this year
by four researchers at Harvard and Ohio University, 28 percent said the
cause was illness or injury. Most were middle class, educated and had
health insurance at the start of the treatment. Many lost phone service,
went without meals or skipped medications to save money. Although the
study relied largely on people's own accounts of their finances, the
figure suggests that as many as 400,000 American families file for
bankruptcy each year because of medical expenses.

"Not only are the bills higher, but the way we pay for care has
changed," said Elizabeth Warren, a professor at Harvard Law School and
one of the study's authors. "My mother always carried a bill with the
doctor, but every dollar she paid went to principal.

"Today, the doctor takes a credit card, and a family might be paying
that off at extraordinary interest rates. So people may recover
physically from major medical injury, but may not recover financially."

A Shift in Burden

Though health care costs have been rising for decades, changes in
insurance starting around 2001 have put more pressure on consumers,
especially those who need the most treatment, said Paul Ginsburg,
president of the Center for Studying Health System Change, a nonpartisan
research group financed primarily by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

The families driven into bankruptcy by these costs include those dealing
with both rare and common medical conditions, and others who simply
saved too little or owed too much in the false confidence that there
would not be unforeseen medical problems, or that their insurance would
protect them.

In Pfafftown, N.C., Glenda and Robert Lee Gantt filed for bankruptcy
protection after Mrs. Gantt's rheumatoid arthritis
forced her to give up working as a security guard. In Houston, Roy and
Patsy McKanna filed for bankruptcy after helping their adult daughter
pay for breast cancer treatment.

"We were just trying to keep them from sinking until things got better,"
said Mrs. McKanna, 71. "They took bankruptcy a little more than a year
before we did. We managed our budget for 52 years. You never know what
life's going to throw at you."

In the 1990's, as medical expenses rose faster than inflation, insurance
companies limited costs of coverage by limiting patients' treatment
options through the system known as managed care. Even as hospitals and
drug companies introduced expensive new treatments, out-of-pocket costs
for patients actually fell during the decade.

But as consumers have objected to the limits imposed by managed care,
insisting on more choice, the trade-off has been higher insurance
premiums and higher out-of-pocket costs, said Arnold Milstein, medical
director of the Pacific Business Group on Health.

Dr. Milstein said companies had two rationales for shifting expenses to
consumers: to "share the pain" that came with higher overall costs and
to encourage patients to seek care judiciously.

"But what if you're unlucky enough to get sick?" he said. "Now you pay a
lot more out of pocket. One of the unintended consequences of
cost-shifting is that sicker people - the ones who most need insurance -
are the ones who end up paying more of their bills."

From 2000 to 2005, employees in the most common type of insurance plan,
known as preferred provider organizations, saw their premiums for
individual coverage rise 76 percent, to $603 from $342, while their
deductibles - the amount they pay out of pocket before insurance kicks
in - rose almost 85 percent, to $323 from $175, according to the Kaiser
Family Foundation. By 2003, a survey by the Center for Studying Health
System Change estimated, 20 million American families had trouble paying
their medical bills. Two-thirds of these had health insurance.

Twists of Fate

Mr. and Mrs. Dorsett never expected to be part of this group. They met
more than a decade ago at a gas station where she worked part time while
studying to be a nurse.

Mr. Dorsett liked to talk on his way home from work. Both wanted to have
a big family. They married with plans to have six children. Mrs. Dorsett
hoped to finish her studies and work as a nurse; Mr. Dorsett thought she
should stay at home with the children.

But shortly after Zachery was born, they knew something was not right.
He got the same illnesses or infections as other children, but while
others got better, he would get worse. A cold would turn into bronchitis
a sinus infection would require 45 days of antibiotics
and often turn into pneumonia. He needed follow-up doctor visits,
refills on prescriptions, X-rays, CAT scans - each time ringing up
co-payments of $10, $15, $30 or more.

On a blazing summer evening, the Dorsetts sat at their kitchen table.
Their one extravagance, a large-screen television, occupied the
children: Zachery, 8; Dakota, 5; and Jessica, 4. Mrs. Dorsett bought the
television with her mother as a present for her husband, from money she
had earned baby-sitting. Mr. Dorsett, she recalled, had complained about
the expense.

At 40, Mr. Dorsett has a ruddy complexion, buzzed blond hair and a light
beard. As he nursed a can of supermarket-brand cream soda, he seemed to
wish he could turn back the calendar, find some alternative to
bankruptcy court. It is a source of recurring friction between them: Mr.
Dorsett never wanted to file; Mrs. Dorsett convinced him that there was
no alternative.

"I make good money, and I work hard for it," Mr. Dorsett said. "When we
filed for bankruptcy, I felt I failed."

He said one of his hardest moments was telling his father about the
bankruptcy. His father had worked two or three jobs during hard times,
but always managed to pay his debts. Arnold Dorsett made more money than
his father ever had, he said, but what good did it do him?

"At work," he said, "the single guys say our insurance is good. Well,
it's good for them, because they don't have kids, or don't get sick.
When you have a kid who's chronically sick, it's totally different."

On his long days, Mr. Dorsett usually skips lunch rather than spend $6
or $7 at a fast food restaurant. He wishes he could take the family to
the Grand Canyon, or afford a house where the girls could have their own
bedrooms. But when asked about his sacrifices, he said the luxury he
missed most was time, not money. "Zach and I had no relationship until
two years ago," he said. "Dakota hardly ever talked to me. I was putting
in 80, 90 hours a week, not having a relationship with my children."

While Mr. Dorsett works, Mrs. Dorsett juggles child care with the
seemingly endless wrangling with insurance companies and, until the
bankruptcy filing, with creditors.

Managing a Medical Mystery

On an August morning at home, Mrs. Dorsett prepared a lunch of corn dogs
and macaroni and cheese while Zachery got ready for soccer camp. By all
appearances, he is a healthy-looking boy with a somber disposition.
Though he has missed as many as 42 days in a school year because of
illness, he has friends and keeps up with his classes, his mother said.
His worst problem at school, she said, is pushing himself too hard.

Until earlier this year, no one knew what was wrong with him. His immune
disorder, known as common variable immune deficiency, can be detected
through a simple blood test, but as Mrs. Dorsett took him from doctor to
doctor, usually with small problems that would not go away, the doctors
looked elsewhere. Some treated only the immediate symptoms; others made
Mrs. Dorsett feel she was overtreating her child.

"I felt there was something wrong," she said. "But you can't walk into a
doctor's office and say you think you know what it is because you saw it
online. They're the ones with the prescription pads, and I didn't want
to make them mad."

As the family went from one doctor to the next, without a diagnosis of
the root problem, the insurance company often questioned the expenses.
Why did Zachery need four doctor visits or five rounds of antibiotics
for an ailment that most children shook off in a couple of days? Mrs.
Dorsett spent days on the phone, often in voice-mail loops, and often
long-distance, pleading her case.

"Like when they refused to pay for antibiotics when he had pneumonia"
last year, she said. "The antibiotics cost $373, and we didn't have it.
But we couldn't just not give it to him. I knew the review board would
come around eventually, but he needed the medicine right away. Finally
the doctor gave us samples."

She managed the expenses, like many people, by constantly applying for
new credit cards, rolling the debt from the old cards into the new ones,
which usually came with low introductory interest rates. In a good year,
they would have the rolling charges on their credit cards down to $5,000
or $6,000, but the charges always went up again.

Gradually the debts started to catch up with her. When she fell behind
on one of her heavily used cards, the company raised the 2.9 percent
interest rate to 14 percent. Suddenly, she could not find a card with a
low interest rate or a line of credit of more than $5,000, when the
family balance exceeded $13,000. She tried playing dumb with the
company, saying she was sure she had sent the check. "But they weren't
buying it," she said.

With Mr. Dorsett's insurance, Zachery's bills were not astronomical, but
they were just beyond what the Dorsetts could afford. Finally, Mrs.
Dorsett asked one of the hospitals for assistance. "They said all I
could do was go to churches," she said. "Which is worse, filing for
bankruptcy or - I'm going to say it - begging at churches?"

Now, Uncertainty

Since the couple filed for bankruptcy protection in March, the creditors
have stopped calling for money. The Dorsetts filed for, and were
granted, protection under Chapter 7, which means that a trustee will
liquidate their nonexempt assets to pay their creditors. But as in most
Chapter 7 cases, there are no assets to liquidate.

In the meantime, since they are resigned to losing their house, they are
putting aside the money that would have gone to the mortgage for the
next round of big expenses. For the first time since Zachery's birth
they are saving money.

Even now, credit card companies still offer them cards, which they have
turned down. But because of the bankruptcy, they know they will not be
able to secure a mortgage on their next home. Many of their friends, and
especially the mothers in Mrs. Dorsett's preschool group, do not know
about the bankruptcy.

Even with their debts cleared for the moment, there are no guarantees
that the Dorsetts will be able to stay above water. The immune globulin
may keep Zachery out of the emergency room this winter, but it may not.
They have no credit to buffer unforeseen expenses - a sudden car repair,
a slowdown at work, braces.

Mrs. Dorsett tried to put the best spin on the contingencies that loom
over their lives: "If we get another house for under $800 a month, if
nothing else happens, if the treatments work, we'll make it."

And if things do not work out, they will face that another day, and for
many days after that.
 
Why is this in rec.bicycles.misc??

Because you didn't remove it from the 'Newsgroups' line?

If you restrict the amount of money going into national health care, you
have to restrict the expenses faced by doctors, hospitals, and medical
supply makers. Can you cut pay to nurses, orderlies, secretaries, techs,
etc?

30% of our precious health care dollars pay for worse-than-useless
bureucrats. This is a massively inefficient part of our economy, let those
parasites do something productive with their lives instead. All of the money
America saves can be steered towards much more productive parts of the economy
creating a net increase in jobs. (even before you factor in reduced labor costs
throughout the economy). A lot of the rest of the money goes to insurance
industry profits which is also a useless waste of money. Some high-end doctors
may not be able to afford a 2nd BMW. Then again, doctors who choose not to
participate in the government insurance plan could still work for private plans
like Canada's supplemental health care plans.
Nope, those folks are in the core democratic wage class. Can you
cut availability of MRI's, tests, etc? No, patients will go
beserk.

None of that would be cut. The Canadians and Australians have not gone
"beserk" so that's just nonsense. They say they would never trade their system
for the American system. And Canadians typically can choose almost any
provider they want, while most Americans are restricted by our crummy HMOs and
PPOs. BTW Canadians can also purchase supplemental health care plans if
they want an extra level of service.
Can you cut their real estate rents and utility bills? Not
really. Can you cut their insurance costs.. hmmmm... maybe. But
wait, guess who is the recipients of that largess?? Trial lawyers,

Bureaucrats. Other countries pay about 1/2 of what Americans pay for health
care and for two main reasons. The first reason is that the American system
pays for _way_ more bureaucrats the the rest of the world. Instead of a single
payer system we have we have to pay for enough bureaucrats to maintian 4
government systems (medicare, veterens, federal workers, military) and
bureaucrats for dozens of little shitty private companies to look for ways to
avoid paying you. The US system is to wasteful that we pay more _public_ money
on health care than some countries pay to cover their entire populations. The
2nd reason the US pays twice what other countries pay is that their single
payer systems have increased bargaining clout with suppliers and providers.

a(the?) core democrat supplier of campaign funds. So democrats ended up
having to choose between embracing single payer with US style costs, and
the tax increases that would be required to pay those costs, or screwing
their trial lawyer supporters by capping payouts from insurance pools for
malpractice and other liabilities in order to achieve acceptable expense
levels that wouldn't result in a tax payer revolt.

This accounts for less than 1% of the spending difference. The US spends
about TWICE as much as other countries.

The day our lawyers will agree to accept the same degree of payout as our
Northern and European competitors, maybe. Until then? Can't happen.

_Every_ other First World country has a universal health care system. That
goes for Europe, Asia, Australia, and North America. Our shitty system is a
huge competitive disadvantage because it inflates labor costs for all American
goods and services. Because the American system keeps getting worse and worse
every single year reform is a certaintly, the only question is when.
 
So move to Canada already, you whiny bitch!

When you assume you just make an ass of yourself. Every Canadian usenet post
I've read says that they do not have to wait a long time for important things.
I personally had to wait 2 months in Texas for the same medical procedure
somebody in Ontario only had to wait 3 days for. The American health care
system is a piece of shit even for people lucky enough to have insurance. (In
my state of Texas 1/4 of the population does not). Americans have a limited
choice of doctors approved by our crummy little PPO or HMO, if you have
insurance at all, while Canadians can see just about any doctor they want. On
the other hand at least Americans have a bunch of paperwork to deal with
also...


The New York Times <http://www.nytimes.com/>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
October 13, 2005
Being a Patient


Treated for Illness, Then Lost in Labyrinth of Bills

By KATIE HAFNER

When Bracha Klausner returned home after an extended hospital stay for a
ruptured intestine three years ago, she found stacks of mail from
doctors and hospitals waiting for her.

There were so many envelopes - some of them very thick - that at first,
Mrs. Klausner, 77, could not bring herself to open them, and she stored
them in large shopping bags in her Manhattan apartment.

When she finally did open some of the envelopes, there were pages filled
with dozens of carefully detailed items, each accompanied by a service
code: "Partial thrombo 2300214 102.00," "KUB Flat 2651040 466.00."

On the 15th page or so of each bill, a "balance forward" line listed
amounts in the tens of thousands of dollars. One totaled $77,858.04.

Another mailing, from her insurance company, clearly said, in large
type, "This is not a bill." But she could make no sense of the remark
codes: "G7 - Your benefit is based on the difference between Medicare's
allowable expense and the amount Medicare paid" or "QN - Your claim may
have been separated for processing purposes."

Mrs. Klausner's experience is shared by millions of Americans who,
frustrated and confused, find themselves devoting enormous amounts of
time and energy to sorting out their medical bills.

Walk into any drugstore, and the next few minutes of your life are
fairly predictable. After considering the choices, you make your
purchases and head for the cashier. Seconds after the transaction, you
are handed a receipt that reports to the penny what you paid for each
product, along with its brand, its size, and the date, time and location
of the purchase. But become a patient, and you enter a world of
paperwork so surreal that it belongs in one of Kafka's tales of the
triumph of faceless bureaucracies. And although some insurers and
hospitals are trying to streamline and simplify bills, the efforts have
been piecemeal.

Medical paperwork is a world of co-payments and co-insurers,
deductibles, exclusions and contracted fees. Nothing is as it seems:
patients receive statements that often do not reflect what is actually
owed; telephone calls to customer service agents are at best
time-consuming and at worst fruitless. The explanations of benefits that
insurers send out - known as E.O.B.'s - are filled with unintelligible
codes.

The system is so impenetrable that it mystifies even the most knowledgeable.

"I'm the president's senior adviser on health information technology,
and when I get an E.O.B. for my 4-year-old's care, I can't figure out
what happened, or what I'm supposed to do," said Dr. David Brailer,
National Coordinator for Health Information Technology, whose office is
in the Department of Health and Human Services. "I can't figure out what
care it was related to or who did what."

Dr. Blackford Middleton, a professor at Harvard Medical School with
special training in health services research, said he did not fare much
better than Dr. Brailer.

"I understand the words of diagnoses and procedures," he said. "But
codes? No. Or how things are paid or not paid? I don't understand that."

Dr. Brailer said he often used an analogy to describe the current state
of medical billing.

"Suppose you walk into a restaurant," he said, "and you don't get a
menu, you don't get any choice of what food you'll eat, they don't tell
you what it is when they're serving it to you, they don't tell you what
it's going to cost."

"Then, weeks or months later, you get a bill that tells you all the food
you ate and the drinks you had, some of which you remember and some you
don't, and although you get the bill, you still can't figure out what
you really owe," Dr. Brailer said.

Some people make valiant efforts to sort through bills and claims, but
end up throwing up their hands; others ignore them, until they are
pursued by collection agencies; still others, basically healthy but
weary at the prospect of a paperwork fusillade, stop going to the doctor
altogether.

Piles Upon Piles

In the days before managed care, most insurance plans operated on a
fee-for-service basis. Patients paid 20 percent of medical fees;
insurers paid 80 percent. But as health care costs have continued to
rise, many patients are being required to pay an ever-larger part of
their medical bills, and deductibles continue to increase. And to keep
the system churning, close to 30 cents of every dollar spent on health
care goes for administration, much of it spent generating bills and
explanations of benefits.

"The number of bureaucrats between the point of service and the final
cash reckoning is just incredible," said Dr. Thomas Delbanco, a
professor of primary care medicine at Harvard Medical School who is a
leader in the field of patient-centered care.

For many people, the piles of paperwork they must contend with reinforce
a simmering discontent with a system that aggravates tensions among
patients, hospitals, doctors and insurers.

Insurance companies are, by and large, unapologetic.

"Even though the amount of paperwork a patient has to deal with might
seem to be a lot, it would be much worse if there wasn't a unifying
organization like a health plan easing that burden," said Dr. Alan
Sokolow, chief medical officer at Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield in New York.

This might come as a surprise to Ellen Mayer, an artist who lives in
Chester, N.Y. Ms. Mayer, 54, has a rare type of gastrointestinal cancer
that requires constant monitoring through blood work, CT scans and PET
scans.

The paperwork nightmare started for Ms. Mayer when her oncologist
switched hospitals. Everything suddenly seemed to need a justification,
or a new piece of paper with an authorization.

The stacks of papers, folders and Post-It notes related to Ms. Mayer's
treatment have started to take over her house. They fill manila
envelopes, boxes and files, which fill closets. They spill from the
dining room table onto chairs.

"You can't just be sick," she said. "You have to be sick and be drowning
in paperwork."

So overwhelming has the paperwork grown that Ms. Mayer has considered
giving up and ceasing all treatment because of the bureaucratic hassle
that accompanies it.

"It's comical, it's unbelievable," she said. "And I think to myself,
'What if I was an elderly person, or a single person? What if I wasn't
healthy enough to handle it?' "

Dr. Michael Mustille, associate executive director of the Permanente
Federation in Oakland, Calif., said medical paperwork often delivered "a
double psychological whammy."

"People get these things that look expensive that they can't
understand," Dr. Mustille said, "and then there's the worry that the
people they've paid for insurance may decline to assume responsibility
for it."

In Mrs. Klausner's case, her son bought her an elaborate paper
organizer, hoping it might help her face the chaos. She never used it.

Creditors began to call. Whenever a collection notice showed up, Mrs.
Klausner panicked and wrote a check or reached for the telephone to call
her son for help.

In the end, Medicare and United Healthcare paid most of Mrs. Klausner's
bills, which added up to more than $150,000. And although the unwelcome
mail has ceased, she cannot bring herself to throw out the bags filled
mostly with unopened envelopes dating back to 2002, as if doing so might
violate a law.

Dr. Middleton went through something similar with his elderly mother,
Dugan Middleton, a former nurse who died of thyroid cancer last February
at age 79.

Mrs. Middleton, who had lived alone in Palm Beach Gardens, Fla.,
preferred to handle the paperwork herself.

"It went on and on, with her reconciling her accounts with a lot of
different doctors," Dr. Middleton said.

He said that his mother wrote check after check and that "I'm sure she
was paying many of the same bills twice."

His medical credentials notwithstanding, Dr. Middleton was at a loss.
"It was ridiculously complex," he recalled.

Finally, in the last months of his mother's life, Dr. Middleton hired a
social worker who knew how to navigate the system to help with the bills.

How did things get this bad?

Most health care in the United States
is fragmented and profit-driven, a system in which everyone but the
patient is meant to benefit financially.

"Fragmentation is a fact of life in health care, and people consider
that to be one of the most fundamental problems," Dr. Brailer said. "We
pay by the piece. Everybody gets paid individually to do something: to
see a patient, to admit someone, to do a lab test, to do a prescription,
so health care is swamped by detailed, line-item bills."

After an office visit, a physician sends a diagnostic code to the
insurer, which then decides the level of payment. These codes differ
from the codes the insurer uses in the E.O.B.'s it sends to patients to
explain its decisions.

The billing codes used by hospitals are something else entirely.

"Each of them has their own system of paperwork, with their own billing
codes," said Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA, a health
care advocacy group.

"Everyone is bogged down by this: the physicians, the hospitals, and
ultimately it reverberates to the consumer," Mr. Pollack said. "And to
the extent the consumer sees the bill, it's like reading hieroglyphics."

Mr. Pollack and other health care experts said they believed that only a
small percentage of people end up calling their insurance company to
inquire about a claim or to dispute a decision. Still fewer call a
hospital to go over a bill they believe might contain errors.

The Navigator

In late 2003, Bonnie MacKellar's son Elias, then nearly 2, stopped
eating. Then he stopped talking and walking. Elias had stage IV
neuroblastoma, a highly malignant tumor
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics
/tumors/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier>
of the nervous system.

Though pushed to their emotional limits, Ms. MacKellar and her husband,
Thomas Dube, refused to buckle until the bills started to appear in the
mail each day: hospital bills amounting to tens of thousands of dollars;
invoices from doctors she did not remember meeting; E.O.B.'s from her
insurance company that explained nothing.

"It is hard to describe what it is like to be confronted with mounds of
scary claims and bills when you have a 2-year-old who is extremely ill,
who needs constant nursing and doesn't have a great chance of
surviving," Ms. MacKellar said. "And to sit in a hospital room, on hold
with the insurance company for 30 minutes or more only to have your
child start puking just as you get a rep on the line."

The E.O.B.'s seemed to serve little purpose beyond engendering fear.
They were detailed enough ("radiology services 2/19/04"), but when it
came to understanding the boxes listing the amounts charged, the amounts
not covered, the fees allowed, the available benefit and the remark code
(IT, 29, and the ever-mysterious QN ), Ms. MacKellar and her husband
were at a loss.

One statement that said, "Plan pays $00.00, patient pays $56,750.00,"
caused panic.

The remark code "07" stated, "These charges are for services provided
after this patient's coverage was canceled."

There had been no cancellation of coverage, but convincing the insurance
company of that fact was an ordeal.

The breaking point came when the group number on the health plan
changed, and Ms. MacKellar was unable to convince the insurance company
that it was billing under the wrong number.

In despair, she consulted a social services agency, which put her in
touch with Lin Osborn, a private consultant fluent in the arcane
language of health care billing. For a fee, Ms. MacKellar was told, Ms.
Osborn could take all the paperwork off her hands.

An expert in deciphering insurance and hospital billing codes, Ms.
Osborn spent several days straight working on the case and took care of
the entire mess, Ms. MacKellar said.

Still Searching

Although there is no single solution to the medical billing morass, Dr.
Brailer, of the Health and Human Services Department, said that the
increasing use of electronic records to enable insurers, physicians,
hospitals and pharmacies to share data would help.

And in some segments of the health care system, efforts are being made
to simplify and cut down on paperwork. Some insurance carriers, for
example, are reducing the number of E.O.B.'s they send out, posting them
online instead.

For the past 18 months, Blue Cross Blue Shield of North Carolina
has been working to reduce the total amount of paper it sends out.

"When there's no remaining financial liability, then we don't send the
E.O.B.'s," said Bob Greczyn, president of Blue Cross Blue Shield of
North Carolina.

Blue Cross Blue Shield of South Carolina
is offering physicians an electronic card reader that lets patients find
out how much they owe while they are still in the doctor's office.

In another effort to improve the system, the Patient Friendly Billing
Project, led by the Healthcare Financial Management Association, is
working with insurance companies on a long-term project to make bills
more comprehensible.

Still, Dr. Brailer said that, on the whole, "there isn't a lot under
way" in terms of efforts to fix the system.

Dr. Brailer pointed out that there had been frequent calls for a
standardized insurance billing form, which would sharply reduce
duplication and paperwork costs and "make patient management of these as
simple as online checking."

But, he said, "this has not gone beyond the wishful-thinking level
because the changeover would cost a lot."

Mitch Mayne, 38, is a marketing executive in San Francisco who considers
himself basically healthy.

Mr. Mayne went to his doctor three times between March and June for the
same thing: recurring bronchitis

Yet the explanation of benefits statements he received from his insurer
after each office visit differed drastically in the amount he owed,
varying from $10.66 to $90, with no explanation of the services provided.

"What did I do on June 27 that was different than what I did on April 6
that was different than what I did on March 4?" Mr. Mayne asked.

When he calls for an explanation of the E.O.B.'s, he said, the most
tangible result he sees is a new card in the mail with no indication of
the amount he owes as a co-payment printed on the card.

"I'm paying through the nose for this premium, and when I go to the
doctor it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not they'll pay it,"
said Mr. Mayne. "It seems like it depends on the mood of whoever happens
to be doing the claim that day, or on the phases of the moon."

Mr. Mayne recently grew so fed up that he decided to try to beat the
bronchitis on his own. "I can't deal with all this paperwork," he
recalled saying. "It's just too much of a hassle." That turned out to be
a mistake. Mr. Mayne became so sick that he finally relented and saw his
doctor.

What if something truly catastrophic should happen to the state of his
health?

"Oh wow, I hadn't even thought of that," Mr. Mayne said. "That's
actually a pretty scary proposition. If I can't manage my health care as
a healthy individual, the prospect of trying to manage it and be really
sick at the same time - I don't know that I could do it."
 
Then you're lucky to be in a 'big government' state where government tightly
regulates free market insurance. Most Americans aren't so lucky. But you're
still taking a hugh risk because if you develop a chronic condition they will
figure out some way to stick it to you or cancel your policy sooner or later.
If nothing else they will just pull out of the your market for a year
when they get too many unprofitable policies. Like all the people who
erroneously thought their insurance would pay for the hurricane damage to their
houses, you have a false sense of security. When you find out you aren't as
protected as you thought, it will be too late and you will be screwed. Group
insurance is the only serious insurance in America.

But in America even having group insurance is no guarantee you're safe, while
individual insurance is an order of magnitute more risky.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
<snip>

I wouldn't. call Virginia a "big government" state and I doubt that Blue
Cross/Blue Shield could pull out of the state for a year. I pay twice as
much as when I had a group policy through my employer so it is more
expensive than group coverage but they cannot cancel my policy (just
increase it every year). And to stay on topic, here is a poem about
hurricane Katrina:

Twas the night after Katrina!!!

When down on Canal St. the looters dey came
The po-lice had seen dem and called dem by name
STOP! Melvin, Shaneekwa, Chantel and Joe Brown
Leroy and Rickita, put dem shoes down.

Da baskets dey loaded as fast as dey could
While big screens was rollin on back to da hood
Shoes, electronics, fur coats and rings.
All de essential survival things.

From de east and de west da levees seperated
An da peoples had wished dey evacuated.
Da water poured in like Dixie beer foam
And da hood emptied in to da Superdome.

Dey crapped an dey pillaged an da Dome went to hell
It'll take 10 years to get rid of da smell.
But it's not like cleaning da dome affects us
Since dem Saints is gone to San Antonio, Texas.

Soon after Arron Broussard clearly started to drink
An Kathleen Blanco needed her time to think,
Da forces finally came to help out da cops
Wit dere M-16's up on da roof tops.

Dey were poppin da ganstas like da hooka's pop gum
An tossin dem into the river like chum.
St. Gabriel was not dere eternal slumber.
An dey never made da body count number.

No longer to walk among civilization,
Dey now a part of coastal restoration.
So When ya open up oysters, instead of pearls
You'll find little gold teeth and black Geri curls.

An da ones dat was bussed to other states
An places where da Red Cross facilitates
Are waitin around for dere FEMA checks
An demandin everything else dey expects.

You can call em moochas. You can call em no good.
But dey ain't comin back to your neighborhood.
To all you evacuees and your plight
Hope you like TEXAS...

An to all a good night.
 
When you assume you just make an ass of yourself. Every Canadian usenet
post
I've read says that they do not have to wait a long time for important
things.
I personally had to wait 2 months in Texas for the same medical procedure
somebody in Ontario only had to wait 3 days for. The American health care
system is a piece of shit even for people lucky enough to have insurance.
(In
my state of Texas 1/4 of the population does not). Americans have a
limited
choice of doctors approved by our crummy little PPO or HMO, if you have
insurance at all, while Canadians can see just about any doctor they want.
On
the other hand at least Americans have a bunch of paperwork to deal with
also...



I don't know what your problem is but I belong to an HMO, choose my own
doctor (s)
the hospital if needed, and only wait for a procedure or surgery to be done
within a week
or two unless it is an emergency, which is then taken care of
immediately..and I live in Texas!

--Jean
 
None of that would be cut. The Canadians and Australians have not gone
"beserk" so that's just nonsense.

We are not Canadians. Tell an American with a sore knee he has to wait a
month for an MRI, and he will go ballistic, and he will fire the
congresscritter that helped make him wait that long.
And Canadians typically can choose almost any
provider they want, while most Americans are restricted by our crummy HMOs and
PPOs. BTW Canadians can also purchase supplemental health care plans if
they want an extra level of service.

You are only thinking this way because you are insulated from the actual
cost of health insurance. I pay a bit over $8000 a year for health
insurance. A typical uncovered, cash only doctor visit bill is $300 or
so, plus any extra tests. If you want to see a doctor off the list,
no one is stopping you, its a negligible additional expense. Secondly,
almost everyone is offered a choice of plans, you can go cheap or you can
go more expensive. I pay more, not for a lower deductible, but for access
to a vast list of approved doctors, and the ability to have the insurance
company pay 75% of the bill for doctors not on my list. You've made an
economic choice; enjoy the benefits and tolerate the disadvantages. If I
feel the need to go see a specialist, I just call and make an appointment;
I don't ask anyone's permission.
Bureaucrats. Other countries pay about 1/2 of what Americans pay for health
care and for two main reasons. The first reason is that the American system
pays for _way_ more bureaucrats the the rest of the world.

Of course we pay more for bureaucrats. It is our nature. We love paper,
every act of congress is designed to create more paper, and more paper
requires more unionized bureacrats to process. Even the tiniest of
medical excercises generates two or more pieces of mail. It is
unreasonable to expect that will stop simply because Uncle Sam is
collecting the checks.
payer system we have we have to pay for enough bureaucrats to maintian 4
government systems (medicare, veterens, federal workers, military) and
bureaucrats for dozens of little shitty private companies to look for ways to
avoid paying you. The US system is to wasteful that we pay more _public_ money
on health care than some countries pay to cover their entire populations. The
2nd reason the US pays twice what other countries pay is that their single
payer systems have increased bargaining clout with suppliers and providers.

If the company you are annoyed at is trying to avoid paying, then maybe
that should tell you something about what they charge. You bought cheap,
and you got cheap.
This accounts for less than 1% of the spending difference. The US spends
about TWICE as much as other countries.

If you think a physician in England pays the same (within 1%) for medical
malpractice and general liability as a physician in Houston, you are just
absolutely off the....
_Every_ other First World country has a universal health care system. That
goes for Europe, Asia, Australia, and North America. Our shitty system is a
huge competitive disadvantage because it inflates labor costs for all American

Much of the First World has looser pays, and much lower payout amounts for
the typical bad medical outcome.

Lets can the lawyers and the bureacrats, then we can have our system, and
a reasonable financing system. But you gotta get both.
goods and services. Because the American system keeps getting worse and worse
every single year reform is a certaintly, the only question is when.

As long as the lawyers are taking their cut, and vast governmental,
unionized workforces are involved, it doesn't really matter whether Uncle
Sam or Aetna is collecting the dollars.
 

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
13,974
Messages
67,602
Members
7,467
Latest member
rmacagni

Latest Threads

Back
Top