Head Gaskets - repeat failure

[Florian Feuser]

1998 GT Wagon (USA)

I just had the head gaskets replaced and the engine re-sealed at a
Subaru dealer in New Englad after the engine overheated.

One week later and 300 miles away from that dealer, the engine
overheats again - same problem.

I did drive the car without problems for a week - even in hot weather.
The failure occurred after the car sat overnight and almost immediately
(after driving a couple of miles).

My questions:

- has something like this happened to anyone else on this group and how
was it handled by the dealer
- is this a sign for warped/cracked heads
- how can the service dept miss that (isn't that problem commonly
revealed by a compression test?)
- how can the engine work 100% fine for a week if the problem wasn't
solved yet reoccur that qickly?

regards,

Florian

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

1998 GT Wagon (USA)

I just had the head gaskets replaced and the engine re-sealed at a
Subaru dealer in New Englad after the engine overheated.

One week later and 300 miles away from that dealer, the engine overheats
again - same problem.

I did drive the car without problems for a week - even in hot weather.
The failure occurred after the car sat overnight and almost immediately
(after driving a couple of miles).

My questions:

- has something like this happened to anyone else on this group and how
was it handled by the dealer
- is this a sign for warped/cracked heads
- how can the service dept miss that (isn't that problem commonly
revealed by a compression test?)
- how can the engine work 100% fine for a week if the problem wasn't
solved yet reoccur that qickly?

regards,

Florian

I'd be interesting in knowing what they find also - if I were you, I
might contact the SOA zone manager/whatever and have him at the
dealership when the vehicle is re-examined. Techs are human and perhaps
something just wasn't torqued correctly during the last reapir. I
suppose there is a remote possibility they didn't use the most recent
'version' of HGs or ????


Carl

 

[Florian Feuser]

be interesting in knowing what they find also - if I were you, I might
contact the SOA zone manager/whatever and have him at the dealership
when the vehicle is re-examined. Techs are human and perhaps something
just wasn't torqued correctly during the last reapir. I suppose there
is a remote possibility they didn't use the most recent 'version' of
HGs or ????

Update:

The service shop found a corroded conncetor at the electric fan, which
kept it from coming on and caused the engine to overheat. That may or
may not have been the original cause of the problem, but it was
certainly not reported or repaired by the first shop where the engine
was pulled.

I have had a response from SOA and I hope they will help me avoid
paying for the head gasket again, should it have actually blown.

Florian

 

[Rick Courtright]

The service shop found a corroded conncetor at the electric fan, which
kept it from coming on and caused the engine to overheat. That may or
may not have been the original cause of the problem, but it was

Hi,

I can't speak to whether this item was a "cause" of your problem or not,
but do recall seeing a TSB from Subaru concerning electrical connectors
under the hood corroding. They suggested cleaning all the plug in
connectors (use a spray cleaner from the auto parts store designed for
electrical work) then putting a bit of dielectric grease inside the
connectors to prevent future corrosion. Only places NOT to do this are
the connectors for the 02 sensors.

This might be something you should do yourself...

Rick

 

[Florian Feuser]

Hi,

I can't speak to whether this item was a "cause" of your problem or not,
but do recall seeing a TSB from Subaru concerning electrical connectors
under the hood corroding. They suggested cleaning all the plug in
connectors (use a spray cleaner from the auto parts store designed for
electrical work) then putting a bit of dielectric grease inside the
connectors to prevent future corrosion. Only places NOT to do this are
the connectors for the 02 sensors.

This might be something you should do yourself...

Rick

Rick,
I have never heard of such a TSB, nor are there open recalls for this
issue affecting my Legacy.
If you can remember where you've read about that, I'd appreciate if you
could post links.

My issue seems to have been in fact a corroded contact at the radiator
fan preventing it from coming on. During highway driving, the air
stream provided sufficient cooling, however at slower speeds, the
engine overheated. So far, the second overheating seems to have not
affected the new head gaskets as I had feared. Only the radiator and
some hoses replaced that were apparently damaged.

Basically, the simple corrosion issue on the contact cost me $1700 for
the head gasket and almost $600 for the radiator, which almost
certainly could have been prevented by a proper diagnosis/procedure by
the first dealer.

I contacted SOA (Subaru of America) hoping they would communicate with
the first shop and have them give me a break. Their position is that
I'm on my own - the car's out of warranty.

Moral of the story:
1. Clean your electrical connectors.
2. There's no benefit seeking out Subaru Dealers for out-of-warranty
repairs, so save yourself the premium and find someone good.

FF

 

[Rick Courtright]

I have never heard of such a TSB, nor are there open recalls for this
issue affecting my Legacy.
If you can remember where you've read about that, I'd appreciate if
you could post links.

Hi,

Unfortunately, I can't get to the link anymore. I used to subscribe to
AllData and it was on there. It used to be about $24/yr, and you sign up
for a particular car: make, model, year, etc., and they give you
"car-specific" info, tips, etc. It's probably worth it for a year if you
download everything you can and save it!

I don't even remember now what years the TSB covered--my car's a '90
Loyale. But corrosion happens EVERYWHERE, so the tip's probably good for
your car even if Subaru hasn't jumped on it, IMHO!

Rick

 

[Florian Feuser]

The only reason I can come up with, and sometimes this can be
an important one, is that the dealers may know about TSBs from Subaru
or other manufacturers whereas your less costly local mechanic does not
get these TSBs.

I think an overwhelming majority of independent mechs are working with
AllData subscriptions where you get all TSB's just like a dealer.

On the other hand, having been a technical rep for a car factory, (not
Subaru) I have run across quite a few dealers who received their
TSBs from us, properly put them into a binder in the service manager's
office so they could show me they had them when I came visiting, but
never made any effort to get copies to the mechanics. Don't ask me
why? Fortuneatly, a lot did make sure mechs got them.

I chewed out quite a few managers about things like this, but
sure enough when I checked after another 5 or 6 visits, the bad dealers
where back to their old bad habits.

Let me give you a hint on this. Every dealership runs according to the way
the management of that dealership thinks. In other words, in the hundreds
of dealers I have visited, across the US, the way things run always
comes down from the top. Internally, the way the sales, service, parts
and new
car prep departments (and sometimes their used car dept if they have one)
work will all be the same although they each their ways of covering up their
deceptive practices if they are a "bad" dealer.

I appreiate your insight, RedCrow.

I honestly don't understand why subaru of america does not take greater
interest in the quality of their dealer's shops. In all other
industries, service is recognized to be post-sales product support. My
car may be past its warranty but its still a Subaru - quality service
and customer support is necessary for the brand to maintain its
reputation and resale values - which greatly influence the new sales.

The attutude "our dealers are independently operated businesses - we're
not going to get in the middle of that..." is completely out of line
with that.

Finally I share the last bit of my experience:
I got the radiator and thermostat replaced at a cost of $550 at Milea
Subaru in the Bronx (a 1hour train ride for me). The service guy tried
to do me a favor and decided to grease all door hinges. He overlooked
that in the hot weather here, the clearance between the spoiler on the
hatch and the roof caused the edge of the spoiler to catch and bind,
forced it open and broke off the front of the spoiler, denting the roof
in the process.

When I realized what happened, I returned to the dealer this morning,
and the service manager and tech first denied it had happened there,
then pointed at an existing problem with the spoiler that had caused
the binding. They reluctantly agreed to try to glue it back together, I
declined and had them remove the broken part; then took off with the
promise of gettting a replacement installed for free which I have yet
to locate on a junk yard. Not sure if I want to go back there.

All in all I realize that mistakes happen and so do oversights (like
missing the inoperable cooling fan), but after spending over a couple
of thousand dollars and looking at additional damage I am not a happy
customer.

FF

 

[Florian Feuser]

Think it would do any good?
No, it doesn't, they just screw the next five customers that much worse.
That is about all service can do, spend or not spend money.

Thanks, RedCrow for your insights.

My general obervation here is that the dealer credo seems to be
something like: "when in doubt, let the customer pay for it". The parts
used in a repair are warrantied by the manufacturer, the labor _may_ be
warrantied by the deler at their own discretion and, if outside the
vehicles warranty, without any oversight or involvement by the
manufacturer (What's NEVER warrantied is the diagnosis)

I have learned to take my losses and move on. It's not my mission in
life to do QA for Subaru or their service centers.

FF