And now, a word about head gaskets...

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...)
that I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD!

So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even
if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one.

I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual on-line
price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at $58, or
$17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, big deal".
I told him about the prices I was finding.

Toyota's list is $115; the best on-line price I have found is $85 and the
locval dealer will match that.

I'm kinda answering my own question here. The 7M-GE has a nasty habit of
blowing HGs, and IIRC the HG was replaced on this car a year before I
bought it. he total cost of the job was a shade under $1,000. When I had
the valve covers off to replace the gaskets I checked the torque on the
head bolts and they were above 68 ft/lbs; the original spec was 58 ft/lbs
and a Toyota TSB about BHGs said 72 ft/lbs (IIRC) was recommended, so
whoever did the job knew they had to use the revised spec. I'm betting
they used and off-the-rack gasket and maybe mostly responsible for why I
have to do it again.

So, do I go aftermarket, save a few bucks and perhaps have to do it all
again in 7 years or so? The car is now 22 years old. If I do have to do
the HG again it will be ~30 years old; it's not in *bad* shape, but it's
not a Collector's Item, either.

Or, do I spend the $85 and get the Real Deal and hope things are good
enough to get another 80,000 miles out of it (it has ~220,000 now...)?

The thing I SHOULD do, obviously, is pull the engine and have the whole
thing refreshed. A local engine guy, who's one of the best in the country
quoted me $2200 for complete bottom end refurb, and I know when I get it
back it will be one of the best 7M-GEs in the country.

 

[FatterDumber& Happier Moe]

It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...)
that I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD!

So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even
if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one.

I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual on-line
price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at $58, or
$17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, big deal".
I told him about the prices I was finding.

Toyota's list is $115; the best on-line price I have found is $85 and the
locval dealer will match that.

I'm kinda answering my own question here. The 7M-GE has a nasty habit of
blowing HGs, and IIRC the HG was replaced on this car a year before I
bought it. he total cost of the job was a shade under $1,000. When I had
the valve covers off to replace the gaskets I checked the torque on the
head bolts and they were above 68 ft/lbs; the original spec was 58 ft/lbs
and a Toyota TSB about BHGs said 72 ft/lbs (IIRC) was recommended, so
whoever did the job knew they had to use the revised spec. I'm betting
they used and off-the-rack gasket and maybe mostly responsible for why I
have to do it again.

So, do I go aftermarket, save a few bucks and perhaps have to do it all
again in 7 years or so? The car is now 22 years old. If I do have to do
the HG again it will be ~30 years old; it's not in *bad* shape, but it's
not a Collector's Item, either.

Or, do I spend the $85 and get the Real Deal and hope things are good
enough to get another 80,000 miles out of it (it has ~220,000 now...)?

The thing I SHOULD do, obviously, is pull the engine and have the whole
thing refreshed. A local engine guy, who's one of the best in the country
quoted me $2200 for complete bottom end refurb, and I know when I get it
back it will be one of the best 7M-GEs in the country.

It's not just the gasket and torque but also the condition of the head
and the surface of the head and block, if the old one "embedded" in the
head then you will need to address that,
Head gasket? Buy the whole set.... cheap,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...5fff36ea7&rvr_id=&ua=WXF?&itemid=400084599963

 

[Gary L Burnore]

It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...)
that I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD!

So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even
if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one.

I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual on-line
price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at $58, or
$17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, big deal".
I told him about the prices I was finding.

I put a felpro in mine on the blow, first was from toyota. It is still
running strong 150K later and I beat on it.

The thing I SHOULD do, obviously, is pull the engine and have the whole
thing refreshed. A local engine guy, who's one of the best in the country
quoted me $2200 for complete bottom end refurb, and I know when I get it
back it will be one of the best 7M-GEs in the country.

The thing you should consider is getting one from japan, used, always
guaranteed at or less than 40K miles on the engine. Comes with pretty
much everything. Starter, alternator, another air conditioning compressor etc.

--
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[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

I put a felpro in mine on the blow, first was from toyota. It is still
running strong 150K later and I beat on it.

Really? How much was it and where did you get it?
Did you do this yourself?

The thing you should consider is getting one from japan, used, always
guaranteed at or less than 40K miles on the engine. Comes with pretty much
everything. Starter, alternator, another air conditioning compressor etc.

Last I saw (Toyota has since removed this lsit from their site. Don't ask
me how I stumbled upon it...) was a whole bottom, NEW from Toyota was
$2,500!!!!

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

It's not just the gasket and torque but also the condition of the head and
the surface of the head and block, if the old one "embedded" in the head
then you will need to address that, Head gasket? Buy the whole set....
cheap,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...5fff36ea7&rvr_id=&ua=WXF?&itemid=400084599963

eeeee....

My experience with Toyotas has been to replace important parts with
Genuine Toyota parts. They had issues with this car and BHGs, so bargain
basement stuff is out, for sure. I'd go for a Fel-Pro or other even higher
quality gasket (HKS, ie) but to use one of these you REALLY have to polish
the surfaces.

 

[m6onz5a]

It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...)
that I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD!

So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even
if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one.

I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual on-line
price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at $58, or
$17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, big deal".
I told him about the prices I was finding.

Toyota's list is $115; the best on-line price I have found is $85 and the
locval dealer will match that.

I'm kinda answering my own question here. The 7M-GE has a nasty habit of
blowing HGs, and IIRC the HG was replaced on this car a year before I
bought it. he total cost of the job was a shade under $1,000. When I had
the valve covers off to replace the gaskets I checked the torque on the
head bolts and they were above 68 ft/lbs; the original spec was 58 ft/lbs
and a Toyota TSB about BHGs said 72 ft/lbs (IIRC) was recommended, so
whoever did the job knew they had to use the revised spec. I'm betting
they used and off-the-rack gasket and maybe mostly responsible for why I
have to do it again.

So, do I go aftermarket, save a few bucks and perhaps have to do it all
again in 7 years or so? The car is now 22 years old. If I do have to do
the HG again it will be ~30 years old; it's not in *bad* shape, but it's
not a Collector's Item, either.

Or, do I spend the $85 and get the Real Deal and hope things are good
enough to get another 80,000 miles out of it (it has ~220,000 now...)?

The thing I SHOULD do, obviously, is pull the engine and have the whole
thing refreshed. A local engine guy, who's one of the best in the country
quoted me $2200 for complete bottom end refurb, and I know when I get it
back it will be one of the best 7M-GEs in the country.

Those cheaper ones are probably just the head gasket itself, while the
$50+ ones are probably the whole headset.

 

[FatterDumber& Happier Moe]

eeeee....

My experience with Toyotas has been to replace important parts with
Genuine Toyota parts. They had issues with this car and BHGs, so bargain
basement stuff is out, for sure. I'd go for a Fel-Pro or other even higher
quality gasket (HKS, ie) but to use one of these you REALLY have to polish
the surfaces.

It's your money,
http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?82338-7MGE-rebuild
Interesting site,
http://www.sssautomotive.com.au/Engines/toyota.htm

 

[clare]

It has been recommended (RE: my '88 Supra with an apparent BHG...)
that I PARK THE CAR AND PULL THE HEAD!

So, this I will do. Given that once I pull the head the HG is toast even
if it's not blown, I obviously have to buy a new one.

I have seen them as low as $17; also $26, with $58 being the usual on-line
price. Beck-Arnley wants ~$60, some places advertise Fel-Pro at $58, or
$17, or $26. My band's guitar player said yesterday, "Eh, $12, big deal".
I told him about the prices I was finding.

Toyota's list is $115; the best on-line price I have found is $85 and the
locval dealer will match that.

Buy Felpro

I'm kinda answering my own question here. The 7M-GE has a nasty habit of
blowing HGs, and IIRC the HG was replaced on this car a year before I
bought it. he total cost of the job was a shade under $1,000. When I had
the valve covers off to replace the gaskets I checked the torque on the
head bolts and they were above 68 ft/lbs; the original spec was 58 ft/lbs
and a Toyota TSB about BHGs said 72 ft/lbs (IIRC) was recommended, so
whoever did the job knew they had to use the revised spec. I'm betting
they used and off-the-rack gasket and maybe mostly responsible for why I
have to do it again.

So, do I go aftermarket, save a few bucks and perhaps have to do it all
again in 7 years or so? The car is now 22 years old. If I do have to do
the HG again it will be ~30 years old; it's not in *bad* shape, but it's
not a Collector's Item, either.

Or, do I spend the $85 and get the Real Deal and hope things are good
enough to get another 80,000 miles out of it (it has ~220,000 now...)?

The FelPro is at least as good as the original

 

[clare]

Really? How much was it and where did you get it?
Did you do this yourself?



Last I saw (Toyota has since removed this lsit from their site. Don't ask
me how I stumbled upon it...) was a whole bottom, NEW from Toyota was
$2,500!!!!

Back in 1989 a factory short block was $2800 Canadian - and that did
not include the head, manifolds, timing covers, water pump, or
anything. Just bare block with crank and pistons.(and rods)

 

[dr_jeff]

FelPro gaskets are really good. My dad used to sell gaskets and other
parts and rebuild engines. FelPro made great gaskets.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

FelPro gaskets are really good. My dad used to sell gaskets and other
parts and rebuild engines. FelPro made great gaskets.

Hmmm...I'm hearing of a lot of people using the FelPro with good results.

 

[clare]

Hmmm...I'm hearing of a lot of people using the FelPro with good results.

The fix on the early M engines WAS a Felpro gasket IIRC.

 

[jim beam]

Really? How much was it and where did you get it?
Did you do this yourself?



Last I saw (Toyota has since removed this lsit from their site. Don't ask
me how I stumbled upon it...) was a whole bottom, NEW from Toyota was
$2,500!!!!

call these guys - http://nippon-motors.com/

i've used them before - their prices are great, and the product has been
excellent. they know what they're doing too.

 

[Nate Nagel]

The fix on the early M engines WAS a Felpro gasket IIRC.

Same for the infamous GM V-6 intake gaskets, IIRC.

nate

 

[chuckcar]

call these guys - http://nippon-motors.com/

i've used them before - their prices are great, and the product has
been excellent. they know what they're doing too.

Are those the same people who were importing all those Japanese cars you
can't get in North America? I don't just mean the Skyline or variants
thereof, cars I'd even never heard of before.

 

[jim beam]

Are those the same people who were importing all those Japanese cars you
can't get in North America? I don't just mean the Skyline or variants
thereof, cars I'd even never heard of before.

don't know. i saw clips there, but not cars.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

call these guys - http://nippon-motors.com/

i've used them before - their prices are great, and the product has been
excellent. they know what they're doing too.

DAMN! $595 for an engine!!

I'm going to try to repair this one, but I will remember them if things
don't go well...

Replacing the engine will be MUCH more of a PITA than the HG, and the car
already has ~220,000 miles on it. If it were only 160,000 I'd go for a new
engine and trans (did I mention the tranny has "issues" as well?)

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

call these guys - http://nippon-motors.com/

i've used them before - their prices are great, and the product has been
excellent. they know what they're doing too.

DAMN! $595 for an engine!!

I'm going to try to repair this one, but I will remember them if things
don't go well...

Replacing the engine will be MUCH more of a PITA than the HG, and the car
already has ~220,000 miles on it. If it were only 160,000 I'd go for a new
engine and trans (did I mention the tranny has "issues" as well?)

 

[clare]

Same for the infamous GM V-6 intake gaskets, IIRC.

nate

And the 3.8 Ford V6. (head gaskets and timing cover/water-pump.)

 

[jim beam]

DAMN! $595 for an engine!!

I'm going to try to repair this one, but I will remember them if things
don't go well...

Replacing the engine will be MUCH more of a PITA than the HG,

maybe on yours, but typically not. you can get a motor out in a couple
of hours and back in again in a couple more. stripping a head,
cleaning, prepping and measuring, and careful CLEAN reassembly almost
always takes a lot longer. on a modern overhead cam motor anyway.

and the car
already has ~220,000 miles on it. If it were only 160,000 I'd go for a new
engine and trans (did I mention the tranny has "issues" as well?)

economics and labor both say replace. besides, you've already had the
head off this motor once before. if you want, i can explain in detail,
but most times, it's hard to get a motor to last well once it's been
stripped.