Are Head Gaskets that serious of a problem on Subarus?

[volleybiggs]

I have a 94 legacy and have had little problems with it. I am thinking
of getting a newer model maybe a 2000 Outback but I read all over the
net about headgasket problems. Most of the outbacks I have seen are
all over 150,000 and the headgaskets seem to all go at 100,000. Is it
that big of a problem or is it the people with the problem complaining
about it? ALso I saw where there were two engines in the subaru and
one had more of a problem with the headgasket.
Thanks,
J

 

[.._..]

You are going to run into these catagories of 2000 Outback

1) Those that won't have the problem ever

2) Those that did, and it was fixed properly.

3) Those that did or would have, but had the "fix" applied.

I think you are right, at 150+ it would have happened by now most likely.

2 and 3 are probably the vast majority of them. You really need to ask the
owner about it to find out if it's 2 or 3. 3 may not be so bad, as long as
you remember to re-apply the "coolant conditioner" if you do anything with
the cooling system.

2 should be obvious to a mechanic, as taking the heads off or the engine out
(as my heads were re-done and gasket applied by taking the motor out) will
probably leave tool/scratch marks. Also with this, you can expect the timing
belt, water pump, and a bunch of other stuff got replaced as well. So these
cars may be better than the 1 option ones.

My gut guess is you'll not have problems with the gasket, but have other
problems in the 150k+ miles range.

Be sure to review any car you are thinking about buying with looking at the
oil, the coolant, and looking for bubbles in the overflow tank after the
engine is warm and running. Any record or comment of "O2 sensors flakey"
should be an early warning of gasket problems, I went through 2 sensors due
to a small coolant leak before it got big enough to be noticed.

 

[Catherine Jefferson]

I have a 94 legacy and have had little problems with it. I am thinking
of getting a newer model maybe a 2000 Outback but I read all over the
net about headgasket problems. Most of the outbacks I have seen are
all over 150,000 and the headgaskets seem to all go at 100,000. Is it
that big of a problem or is it the people with the problem complaining
about it? ALso I saw where there were two engines in the subaru and
one had more of a problem with the headgasket.

You need to avoid certain models of Subaru between 1996/1997 (I don't
remember which) and 2000, and be cautious up through 2003/2004. As I
understand it, the severe head gasket problems were with the
first-generation DOHC 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engines that were on the
Forester between 1997 and mid-year 1999, and the Outback between either
1996 or 1997 and 2000. The second generation SOHC 2.5 4 cylinder
engines have some limited head gasket problems, but not huge ones as I
understand it. Around 2004/2005 Subaru engineering finally licked the
head gasket problem, or so I am told.

Our Forester is a late model year 1999 with the second generation
engine. It needs its head gaskets replaced at some time in the next
couple of years, but it is old enough that I'd say "she's due" in this
case.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

I have a 94 legacy and have had little problems with it. I am thinking
of getting a newer model maybe a 2000 Outback but I read all over the
net about headgasket problems. Most of the outbacks I have seen are
all over 150,000 and the headgaskets seem to all go at 100,000. Is it
that big of a problem or is it the people with the problem complaining
about it? ALso I saw where there were two engines in the subaru and
one had more of a problem with the headgasket.
Thanks,
J

Well, I had my head gasket go on my 2000 OBW at around the 70,000 km
mark. It was replaced under warranty, thank goodness.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Tim Conway]

Well, I had my head gasket go on my 2000 OBW at around the 70,000 km mark.
It was replaced under warranty, thank goodness.

Not me. I have a 2000 Forrester with 166,000 miles. Everything was fine,
they put the conditioner in and it was ok. Now I've developed a leak and
have been told I need to have them replaced soon. :-(

 

[basia]

Well, I had my head gasket go on my 2000 OBW at around the 70,000 km
mark. It was replaced under warranty, thank goodness.

        Yousuf Khan

Awfully early, I'd say. Is it an automatic or a stick shift?
I have a theory that automatics may be more prone
to the headgasket problem.

These issues originate from some design flaw, but
Subaru chose not to reveal the details about the true
origin of the problem.

Some say it is related to development of overheating
spots caused by trapped air in the coolant. Some sort
of design problem where coolant cannot be easily drained
and re-filled without air getting trapped.

Others say it is because the original engine block has
undergone several increases in displacement from 1.8L
to 2.2L, to 2.5L and the last increase went to far and
results in some areas of the engine being structurally
thin and improperly cooled, again producing hot spots
and resultant headgasket problems.

I keep hearing rumors that the problem was fixed,
by a stronger headgasket. ...but seem to be rumors.
In 2003 one could hear/read that the issue was related
only to 98-99 cars. Then several years later in 2005,
when 2002-03 cars started braking down, the same
mantra was repeated only this time that cars up to 2003
are prone. Now I hear its up to 2005. In a few years
I bet this will probably be streched to 2008, later to 2011,
and ad infinitum, as the proble keeps showing up.

Caveat emptor I say to any 2.5 L engine buyer!

The NEW 2.5L engine that is in the Legacy and Outbacks
is a completely new engine design different stroke/bore, all
new basically, and should be problem free once and
for all.

Too bad people are reporting some faults in the steering
column, where an unknown vibration at higher speeds occurs.
Subaru is mumm again, fitting the affecteed cars with some
dampening spring, ...another 15cent solution of the "radiator coolant
conditioner type." What a joke!

I fear a major design issue similar to the headgasket problem.

Myself I keep driving a 2000 2.2L Impreza a totally problem free
car, (well except for the rear wheel bearing thing, the new bearing
design is supposedly problem free) because Subaru currently
doesn;'t have a product I can trust, ...except for the Tribeca which
is top notch, and problem free, but I don't need an SUV.

Basia

 

[basia]

Awfully early, I'd say.  Is it an automatic or a stick shift?
I have a theory that automatics may be more prone
to the headgasket problem.

These issues originate from some design flaw, but
Subaru chose not to reveal the details about the true
origin of the problem.

Some say it is related to development of overheating
spots caused by trapped air in the coolant.  Some sort
of design problem where coolant cannot be easily drained
and re-filled without air getting trapped.

Others say it is because the original engine block has
undergone several increases in displacement from 1.8L
to 2.2L, to 2.5L and the last increase went to far and
results in some areas of the engine being structurally
thin and improperly cooled, again producing hot spots
and resultant headgasket problems.

I keep hearing rumors that the problem was fixed,
by a stronger headgasket. ...but seem to be rumors.
In 2003 one could hear/read that the issue was related
only to 98-99 cars.  Then several years later in 2005,
when 2002-03 cars started braking down, the same
mantra was repeated only this time that cars up to 2003
are prone.  Now I hear its up to 2005.  In a few years
I bet this will probably be streched to 2008, later to 2011,
and ad infinitum, as the proble keeps showing up.

Caveat emptor I say to any 2.5 L engine buyer!

The NEW 2.5L engine that is in the Legacy and Outbacks
is a completely new engine design different stroke/bore, all
new basically, and should be problem free once and
for all.

NEW as in the all new 2010 model Legacy and Outbacks.

Basia

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Not me. I have a 2000 Forrester with 166,000 miles. Everything was fine,
they put the conditioner in and it was ok. Now I've developed a leak and
have been told I need to have them replaced soon. :-(

One my '89 1.8 I used Bar's head gasket in a bottle. As long as the leak
is not on the exhaust side it might work. It worked on my '89 but not on
the '97 2.2, since the leak is on the exhaust side of things.

 

[Yousuf Khan]

Awfully early, I'd say. Is it an automatic or a stick shift?
I have a theory that automatics may be more prone
to the headgasket problem.

It was a manual transmission, sorry if that kills that theory.

Yes, I thought it was way too early too, but thank god it happened then,
and not when the warranty was up. Blessing in disguise.

These issues originate from some design flaw, but
Subaru chose not to reveal the details about the true
origin of the problem.

Some say it is related to development of overheating
spots caused by trapped air in the coolant. Some sort
of design problem where coolant cannot be easily drained
and re-filled without air getting trapped.

Others say it is because the original engine block has
undergone several increases in displacement from 1.8L
to 2.2L, to 2.5L and the last increase went to far and
results in some areas of the engine being structurally
thin and improperly cooled, again producing hot spots
and resultant headgasket problems.

Well, as I recall, I first noticed it when I was driving along normally,
and then all of a sudden the temperature gauge shot right up. And then a
few seconds later it settled right back down to normal. Then again it
repeated itself a few more times. Took it to the dealer right away.

The dealer got back to me soon enough, said it's a head gasket problem,
and my jaw dropped to floor, thinking how expensive that was going to
be. Then he told me it was covered under warranty, and so I snapped my
jaw back on.

The dealer mentioned that the sudden rise and fall of the temperature
guage was related to air bubbles in the coolant fluid.

Yousuf Khan

 

[basia]

It was a manual transmission, sorry if that kills that theory.

Yes, I thought it was way too early too, but thank god it happened then,
and not when the warranty was up. Blessing in disguise.




Well, as I recall, I first noticed it when I was driving along normally,
and then all of a sudden the temperature gauge shot right up. And then a
few seconds later it settled right back down to normal. Then again it
repeated itself a few more times. Took it to the dealer right away.

The dealer got back to me soon enough, said it's a head gasket problem,
and my jaw dropped to floor, thinking how expensive that was going to
be. Then he told me it was covered under warranty, and so I snapped my
jaw back on.

The dealer mentioned that the sudden rise and fall of the temperature
guage was related to air bubbles in the coolant fluid.

A failed head gasket can allow some air to be sucked
into the coolant... but air bubbles trapped in the system
during radiator drainage and refill is one of two most
s u s p e c t e d causes of hot spots, localized heat
build-up, which is presumed to be the ultimate cause
of headgasket failure.

Anyway, what I am just trying to say is that the problem
does not lie in the headgasket itself.

Subaru "fix" is to install in newer cars a very strong
composite built gasket, ...and hope that this, with the
help of the Coolant Conditioner (which patches up microholes),
it withstands the brutal conditions of heat and pressure
and does not fail within the warranty period.

One could call this a band-aid type approach, I suppose.

Too bad they are not saying much about the true nature of
the problem, thus allowing for much speculation. I am
not a mechanic and don't have the money nor time nor
preference to investigate this matter thoroughly on my own.

I suppose improving the cooling of the heads could
be somewhat helpful. At the least, it could reduce
the magnitude of the heat generated expansion
contraction cycles. The head and block expand
(whenheated) and contract (when cooled) at a somewhat
different rate. This puts enormous stress on the gasket
which is in between these differently expanding and
contracting parts. Cooling the heads better might help
reduce this wear, somewhat, and maybe prevent
early failure.

Anyway, to anyone who is worried about headgasket
failure I would recommend using a water-wetter in the
coolant to improve heat exchange and cooling of the
heads.

Basia

 

[Tim Conway]

It was a manual transmission, sorry if that kills that theory.

Yes, I thought it was way too early too, but thank god it happened then,
and not when the warranty was up. Blessing in disguise.




Well, as I recall, I first noticed it when I was driving along normally,
and then all of a sudden the temperature gauge shot right up. And then a
few seconds later it settled right back down to normal. Then again it
repeated itself a few more times. Took it to the dealer right away.

The dealer got back to me soon enough, said it's a head gasket problem,
and my jaw dropped to floor, thinking how expensive that was going to
be. Then he told me it was covered under warranty, and so I snapped my
jaw back on.

The dealer mentioned that the sudden rise and fall of the temperature
guage was related to air bubbles in the coolant fluid.

A failed head gasket can allow some air to be sucked
into the coolant... but air bubbles trapped in the system
during radiator drainage and refill is one of two most
s u s p e c t e d causes of hot spots, localized heat
build-up, which is presumed to be the ultimate cause
of headgasket failure.

Anyway, what I am just trying to say is that the problem
does not lie in the headgasket itself.

Subaru "fix" is to install in newer cars a very strong
composite built gasket, ...and hope that this, with the
help of the Coolant Conditioner (which patches up microholes),
it withstands the brutal conditions of heat and pressure
and does not fail within the warranty period.

One could call this a band-aid type approach, I suppose.

Too bad they are not saying much about the true nature of
the problem, thus allowing for much speculation. I am
not a mechanic and don't have the money nor time nor
preference to investigate this matter thoroughly on my own.

I suppose improving the cooling of the heads could
be somewhat helpful. At the least, it could reduce
the magnitude of the heat generated expansion
contraction cycles. The head and block expand
(whenheated) and contract (when cooled) at a somewhat
different rate. This puts enormous stress on the gasket
which is in between these differently expanding and
contracting parts. Cooling the heads better might help
reduce this wear, somewhat, and maybe prevent
early failure.

Anyway, to anyone who is worried about headgasket
failure I would recommend using a water-wetter in the
coolant to improve heat exchange and cooling of the
heads.
Excuse me, but what's a "water-wetter"?

 

[basia]

A failed head gasket can allow some air to be sucked
into the coolant... but air bubbles trapped in the system
during radiator drainage and refill is one of two most
s u s p e c t e d causes of hot spots, localized heat
build-up, which is presumed to be the ultimate cause
of headgasket failure.

Anyway, what I am just trying to say is that the problem
does not lie in the headgasket itself.

Subaru "fix" is to install in newer cars a very strong
composite built gasket, ...and hope that this, with the
help of the Coolant Conditioner (which patches up microholes),
it withstands the brutal conditions of heat and pressure
and does not fail within the warranty period.

One could call this a band-aid type approach, I suppose.

Too bad they are not saying much about the true nature of
the problem, thus allowing for much speculation. I am
not a mechanic and don't have the money nor time nor
preference to investigate this matter thoroughly on my own.

I suppose improving the cooling of the heads could
be somewhat helpful. At the least, it could reduce
the magnitude of the heat generated expansion
contraction cycles. The head and block expand
(whenheated) and contract (when cooled) at a somewhat
different rate. This puts enormous stress on the gasket
which is in between these differently expanding and
contracting parts. Cooling the heads better might help
reduce this wear, somewhat, and maybe prevent
early failure.

Anyway, to anyone who is worried about headgasket
failure I would recommend using a water-wetter in the
coolant to improve heat exchange and cooling of the
heads.



Excuse me, but what's a "water-wetter"?

Read here abut RedLine's Water Wetter:
http://www.importtuner.com/reviews/impp_0808_coolant_additives/index.html

You can buy much cheaper water wetter at Kragen, Autozone etc.

Basia

 

[Tim Conway]

Read here abut RedLine's Water Wetter:
http://www.importtuner.com/reviews/impp_0808_coolant_additives/index.html

You can buy much cheaper water wetter at Kragen, Autozone etc.

Thanks. Sounds good.