Fuel leak in cold weather conditions

[Esh]

In very cold weather (it's current ~15F in SE Michigan, so its too extreme)
my 02 WRX has a strong gasoline smell in the cabin. I asked my dealer to
investigate during a recent service and was told this is due to a fuel line
part that seeps fueld in very cold conditions. Appears that this is common
in older WRXs and the repair bill is going to run me ~ $410 (4 hours labor +
modified part). I'm going to try and work this issue out with the service
manager as while my vehicle is beyond warranty, this is too steep for a
design problem with an OEM part.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? Did Subaru correct this for you
under warranty or were you forced to pay for repairs?

I'd appreciate any feedback from other Subie/WRX owners that have
experienced this problem and have worked it out with Subaru.

Thanks
Esh

 

[Esh]

OK, meant to say that 15F is NOT too extreme, or sure as hell shouldn't be
for a WRX!

 

[mulder]

Yes this is a well-known issue with the 02's, Subaru has a TSB on it
but unfortunately never made it a formal recall. If you are within the
3/36 bumper-to-bumper warranty period they will repair it free, beyond
that they will charge you. It is an expensive repair because of the
labor involved, the intake manifold has to be removed to replace the
defective lines.
Here is a thread on the NASIOC forums that you may find helpful-
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131755

 

[patrick.mcdaniel]

I would recommend that you do it yourself, or at least do an exploratory
looksee yourself. If the leak is where I think it is, you'd be surprised
how easy it is to get to it.

In your trunk or rear wagon cargo area, the 'hole' where the pump is is
underneath a raised aluminum cover; located to the top right of the spare
tire area. Take all of the screws. You'll most likely find that the hoses
that attach to the fuel pump or the rubber gasket that seals between the
pump and the fuel tank are your culprits.

For me, I had the same problem but it was because I had replaced my own fuel
pump but when I reinstalled it, the rubber gasket has about 6 or 7 rubber
spikes that are supposed to be pushed through the fuel pump's mounting
bracket. I didn't make sure that all of those spikes came through, so I
naturally had a gap in the gasket.

Hope that helps.

 

[mulder]

What you are describing is not the typical cause of this problem.
Although the fuel tank gasket can indeed leak and cause a smell inside
the car, this almost always happens only when the pump has been
replaced as in your case and the gasket not reinstalled properly. When
the gasket has not been disturbed it rarely if ever leaks.
The problem being reported, and as documented in the thread I linked
to, involves leaky rubber coupling hoses between metal fuel lines that
are located on top of the engine. Access to these hoses is difficult
as they are under the intake manifold and the turbo inlet hose.
Although a DIY repair is possible (I repaired mine by replacing just
the hoses and not the metal lines as Subaru does in the TSB), if the
car has the factory inlet hose the manifold has to be removed to get
the inlet out in one piece and reach the hoses. If the inlet has been
previously replaced with a silicone aftermarket one such as a Samco,
it can be removed with the manifold in place.

 

[patrick.mcdaniel]

Ah, that makes sense. I know how the job may be easy if it weren't for so
many obstacles in the way. Are you referring to the hoses going into the
pressure regulator or filter..or the rail itself?

 

[mulder]

The hoses to/from the rail on the passenger side.

 

[patrick.mcdaniel]

Is there something systemic that would cause problems on that side and not
the other?

 

[CompUser]

Is there something systemic that would cause problems on that side and not
the other?

Yes. From the factory, those particular
connections tend to leak, in cold temperatures.

 

[mulder]

You have to look at how the fuel system is laid out. Although the fuel
rails themselves are the same side-to-side (other than the pressure
regulator on the passenger side), the lines that bring the fuel across
the engine to that side are coupled together by short (a couple of
inches long) rubber hoses clamped to the metal lines. Over time as the
hoses age they tend to shrink enough in extreme cold to allow some
leakage until heat from the engine expands them enough to seal again.
The aging of these hoses is probably accelerated by their proximity to
the high heat from the turbo.

 

[Esh]

Thanks guys!

I am astonished to read the hundreds of other WRX owners suffering from the
same proble, and also being asked to fork over hundreds of $ to have a
potentially dangerous issue resolved. I may try the very long Phillips
screwdriver trick at first, but dont have the skills or tools to fix this
myself IMO.

I am going to take the NASIOC thread as well as this one to my dealership
and plead my case. I don't see any threads yet regarding fires or issues
caused with the defect, but the threads tells stories of fuel spurting, not
seeping from the defective part so it can only be time.

I'll post back to both forums if I have any success.

Esh

 

[DR RASTIS FAF00FNIK]

Thanks guys!

I am astonished to read the hundreds of other WRX owners suffering from the
same proble, and also being asked to fork over hundreds of $ to have a
potentially dangerous issue resolved. I may try the very long Phillips
screwdriver trick at first, but dont have the skills or tools to fix this
myself IMO.

I am going to take the NASIOC thread as well as this one to my dealership
and plead my case. I don't see any threads yet regarding fires or issues
caused with the defect, but the threads tells stories of fuel spurting, not
seeping from the defective part so it can only be time.

I'll post back to both forums if I have any success.

Esh

Esh, check out the thread for oil leaks (from the oil control valve) causing
engine fires in WRX's. I have seen more than a few burn here in Southern
California this last summer. Subaru knows about it, issued a TSB on it. just
still ANOTHER safety issue and poor design. We figured these fires were from
oil leaks and NOT the fuel leak as it was in the 60's here at night and
above 100 during the day.
Read the threads and comments here....expect to be "forking over" lots of
bucks over the next 5 years or so.....so sad(for the owner) and easy to
prevent.

 

[Chalupa]

I am completely astonished that SUBARU is not taking charge for this. I
experienced exactly this problem when driving on BC5 Canada at -27F
(-32C). By close inspection I did notice there was an actual fuel leak on
one the fuel injector rails under the intake manifold on the passenger
side dripping on the engine block. When brought to the dealership the car
did not show the failure (temp was higher)-- but after spraying freon into
the intake system the fault could be reproed by the dealership. The price
to fix the problem in Canada was not a rip-off as here in the states, so I
was a bit lucky ($200).

 

[tom]

i've got the same symptoms (strong gas smell from the heater at startup
in cold weather), but on a 2002 legacy wagon (2.5l mt) with about
100,000 km. i would guess that i'm not alone.

since i don't have turbo, it isn't just the heat that's causing the
lines to leak fuel. sort of like the o-rings on the columbia, i wonder
if the design of the connection, and the materials used, aren't quite
up to the task.

so far, one approach is to tighten the clamps, which is clearly a
low-cost, short-term fix (the rubber will continue to age, and the
problem will recur). and the other approach is to replace the lines
with new ones that are different lengths, but more or less made the
same way (i think). if the original lines dried out and failed, so
will the replacements.

maybe a better hose material, or a better connecting fitting, would
solve the problem, rather than just delaying it?

 

[Greg Smith]

Same thing with my Forester a couple weeks ago. I think the short,
rubber fuel line atop the engine loses enough flexibility in the cold
that the seal breaks loose when starting the engine. Mine was spilling
fuel at a horrifying rate.

I tightened the screw clamps and haven't had any more problems but I
will replace the hose before next Winter.

I agree with others that Subaru needs to address this as a recall item.
I can't think of too many problems more deserving of recalls than
major fuel leaks at the top of the engine.