Can you turn off ABS by pulling the fuse?

[Sheldon]

I've never had a car with ABS, and my new/used Outback has it. I really
hate it. Can I turn it off by pulling the fuse? I'm aware of the safety
aspect, but IMO I feel I can do a better job myself.

 

[John]

I've never had a car with ABS, and my new/used Outback has it. I really
hate it. Can I turn it off by pulling the fuse? I'm aware of the safety
aspect, but IMO I feel I can do a better job myself.

Yes but depending what state you're in you should put it back in when you go
for inspection. Also, if you get in an accident, regardless of who's at
fault, put the fuse back in, otherwise your insurer could use this against
you.

 

[Josh Assing]

"we love what we know; we know what we love"

That said -- you should realliy get used to them -- they work great; and make a
HUGE difference. Go to an empty parking lot on a rainy day -- drive hit the
brakes hard and turn -- notice you can still steer the car! You cannot do that
if you lock up the brakes.

The only time I've seen abs be a hinderance is in snow & sand - where you want
that lock up to sorta build a bunch of snow/sand in front to help slow you down.
Ice you still want abs.

They're different, I know my first car that had them it felt like they weren't
doin ga good job & I could pump the brakes 'better' -- after a fewmonths; I
realized they worked way better than I could ever do it; especially in emergency
situations.

I'm pretty sure you'd get in trouble if it's determined you intentially disabled
the abs system and you were in an accident.

I've never had a car with ABS, and my new/used Outback has it. I really
hate it. Can I turn it off by pulling the fuse? I'm aware of the safety
aspect, but IMO I feel I can do a better job myself.

--- AntiSpam/harvest ---
Remove X's to send email to me.

 

[Vanguard]

I'm pretty sure you'd get in trouble if it's determined you intentially
disabled
the abs system and you were in an accident.

In which states is there a law that demands that all vehicles be equipped
with ABS? Lots of other cars do NOT have ABS and they are still allowed to
drive on public roads. Having ABS will not eliminate accidents. I'm sure
the insurance companies would appreciate you adding an alarm system to your
vehicle at your expense and may even give you a discount but they cannot
require the alarm because it isn't required by law.

 

[j]

Hey Sheldon,

I'm not trying to piss on your parade or anything, and I'm sure you are
an awesome driver. But, ABS has come a long ways, and is quite
advanced. I respect your opinion, and your right to modify YOUR
Outback, but why not put in a fuse to eliminate the AWD too. See what
I'm saying? If you wanted a car without modern safety devices, why not
just buy an older car?

Anyhow, I swear I'm not trying to tell you your business.

J

 

[Blair Baucom]

He is not saying there is a law. What he and others are saying, if a car
comes from the factory with abs, or other safety features (air bags,
bumpers) and you disable them, and you are involved in an accident, this
could be used against you if discovered.

The insurance companies give discounts for abs & air bags in addition to
car alarms.

Blair

 

[Sheldon]

Hey Sheldon,

I'm not trying to piss on your parade or anything, and I'm sure you are
an awesome driver. But, ABS has come a long ways, and is quite
advanced. I respect your opinion, and your right to modify YOUR
Outback, but why not put in a fuse to eliminate the AWD too. See what
I'm saying? If you wanted a car without modern safety devices, why not
just buy an older car?

Anyhow, I swear I'm not trying to tell you your business.

J

I appreciate your thoughts, and everyone else's. I fully understand how ABS
works, and why it works. I just feel that unless you are in a panic
situation, and don't know how to brake properly or just can't get your brain
involved fast enough, a good driver should be able to stop their car faster
without ABS. It snows here a lot, and that's when I would disconnect it. I
like the feedback I get when the car starts to slide. Call me crazy, but
that's how I feel.

I've always wondered, however, that the police tend to use skid marks to
determine how fast you are going when you brake. Any good driver knows that
your car will stop much faster if the brakes are applied just up to the edge
of lockup but not beyond. So, an "excellent" driver with great skills would
leave no skid marks under any circumstance.

To those who pointed out airbags, remember that those were put in because
many of us are too stupid to use seatbelts. If everyone was required to
wear a 5 point harness an airbag would be an anachronistic device.

I don't claim to be Mario Andretti, and my problems may be twofold. 1. I'm
not used to ABS. 2. The studdless snow tires that are on my car are worn
beyond the point of being as good as they once were on ice (the car I sold
to get this one had new Blizzaks on it).

Again, thanks for all the good comments. I'll probably run out these tires
this summer and get new studdless tires next winter and see how it goes --
hopefully the combination of those, the ABS and, of course, my "excellent"
driving skills <BG>, should work well together.

Sheldon

 

[Vanguard]

He is not saying there is a law. What he and others are saying, if a
car comes from the factory with abs, or other safety features (air bags,
bumpers) and you disable them, and you are involved in an accident, this
could be used against you if discovered.

Not if the equipment is not required by law. Say the dealer puts dual horns
in your car and that your state requires a horn. Removing the second horn
still leaves you with the required horn. Other cars are also allowed to
have just one horn. Not having one of the horns (and thus reduced volume)
does not put you violation of the law. Since you complied with the law, you
are not negligent of the law.

ABS can actually be a hindrance in some situations. With AWD, it's already
pretty hard to snap the car into a tight turn because it wants to scrub
around a tight fast turn. With ABS, the radius is increased. ABS wants to
control the car but maybe you need to be "out of control" (as far as the ABS
parameters go) to avoid an accident. I also find that I can maneuver out of
hitting a stopped vehicle in front of me better without ABS than with. It
really depends on whether the driver actually practices with their vehicle
rather than pretend they have experience based on just their day-to-day
driving. Practice usually means destroying your tires and possibly some
extra wear on the suspension. How many drivers have you actually seen on a
frozen lake practicing or after hosing down a parking lot that practice
spin-outs or sliding turns? Or practice 180 and 360 spins (and come out
under control)? Or practice making a turn so fast that they are sliding at
an angle and know exactly when the car at what speed will snap in the other
direction to know how to turn the wheel? Or start in a tight circle to see
at what speed when oversteer turns into understeer? If you practice, ABS
can get in your way. ABS is for the average driver who wants their tires to
last somewhere near the end of their rated mileage and thinks that everyday
driving actually provides them with experience in catastrophic situations.
God forbid drivers actually practice "cadence" in keeping their wheels from
locking. Just look at the drivers on an icy road that slam on their brakes,
ABS or not, and end up sliding through an intersection rather than let off
the brakes and plow into the snowbank to add lots of drag. For those
commercials that show the car plowing through snow with such agility, that's
a practiced driver, not the shmuck that wants to cut 2 minutes from his
driving time so he can be only 8 minutes late instead of 10 minutes late
(but late is late). When it comes to an emergency, the vast majority of
drivers on the road freeze up mentally. Do race drivers have ABS? No,
because they want total control over their vehicle. ABS is for the majority
of boobs that think they know how to drive but whose experience is severely
limited.

"no ABS system is capable of defying the laws of physics, and stopping
distances will still be significantly longer than when braking on a good dry
surface, where the anti-lock system is not invoked. Certain types of surface
condition, such as loose snow or gravel, can result in a longer stopping
distance with ABS assistance, than when braking with locked wheels. The
locked wheels push a wedge of snow or gravel up in front of them, which adds
to the braking force and reduces stopping distance, but does not enable any
steering response. In contrast, the use of ABS in these conditions will
lengthen the stopping distance, but retain steering control."
(http://www.jdcsa.org/torque/articles/2003_09.pdf; also read
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs2_e.htm). ABS does *not*
reduce stopping distance! I've noticed that in extremely hard straight-line
stops that I can do better with my older non-ABS Subaru AWD than with my new
ABS-equipped Subaru AWD. I'd rather smash the brakes hard and use cadence
to regulate how the car will crab in the turn so I can then release at the
proper time to actually avoid the car in front of my go going to one side or
the other. I'd rather not hit the stopped car or obstacle than be
oh-so-happy that I managed to keep the car pointing straight ahead in a
panic stop. I find ABS fights me having control. ABS is for the
inexperienced. Some enthusiasts will actually disable ABS. Of course, the
driver can still use cadence and exercise control above what ABS provides
(but practice is still needed); however, ABS was designed for the pedal
smashing monkey, the type which is prevalent on the highways.

Best place to get more legal advice might be in the us.legal group but they
usually want to know in which state the person is discussing. Many states
now provide the means to search their statutes. If the OP is not is the
U.S., they'll have to find out in their locality as to what laws actually
apply. I really doubt that removing non-legally required equipment from
your vehicle would result in extra punitive damages. I've yet to hear of
anyone losing a case for an accident in the fog because they simply forgot
to turn on their fog lamps that came on the car, or getting penalized
because they didn't add fog lamps.

 

[Sheldon]

Not if the equipment is not required by law. Say the dealer puts dual
horns in your car and that your state requires a horn. Removing the
second horn still leaves you with the required horn. Other cars are also
allowed to have just one horn. Not having one of the horns (and thus
reduced volume) does not put you violation of the law. Since you complied
with the law, you are not negligent of the law.

ABS can actually be a hindrance in some situations. With AWD, it's
already pretty hard to snap the car into a tight turn because it wants to
scrub around a tight fast turn. With ABS, the radius is increased. ABS
wants to control the car but maybe you need to be "out of control" (as far
as the ABS parameters go) to avoid an accident. I also find that I can
maneuver out of hitting a stopped vehicle in front of me better without
ABS than with. It really depends on whether the driver actually practices
with their vehicle rather than pretend they have experience based on just
their day-to-day driving. Practice usually means destroying your tires
and possibly some extra wear on the suspension. How many drivers have you
actually seen on a frozen lake practicing or after hosing down a parking
lot that practice spin-outs or sliding turns? Or practice 180 and 360
spins (and come out under control)? Or practice making a turn so fast
that they are sliding at an angle and know exactly when the car at what
speed will snap in the other direction to know how to turn the wheel? Or
start in a tight circle to see at what speed when oversteer turns into
understeer? If you practice, ABS can get in your way. ABS is for the
average driver who wants their tires to last somewhere near the end of
their rated mileage and thinks that everyday driving actually provides
them with experience in catastrophic situations. God forbid drivers
actually practice "cadence" in keeping their wheels from locking. Just
look at the drivers on an icy road that slam on their brakes, ABS or not,
and end up sliding through an intersection rather than let off the brakes
and plow into the snowbank to add lots of drag. For those commercials
that show the car plowing through snow with such agility, that's a
practiced driver, not the shmuck that wants to cut 2 minutes from his
driving time so he can be only 8 minutes late instead of 10 minutes late
(but late is late). When it comes to an emergency, the vast majority of
drivers on the road freeze up mentally. Do race drivers have ABS? No,
because they want total control over their vehicle. ABS is for the
majority of boobs that think they know how to drive but whose experience
is severely limited.

"no ABS system is capable of defying the laws of physics, and stopping
distances will still be significantly longer than when braking on a good
dry surface, where the anti-lock system is not invoked. Certain types of
surface condition, such as loose snow or gravel, can result in a longer
stopping distance with ABS assistance, than when braking with locked
wheels. The locked wheels push a wedge of snow or gravel up in front of
them, which adds to the braking force and reduces stopping distance, but
does not enable any steering response. In contrast, the use of ABS in
these conditions will lengthen the stopping distance, but retain steering
control." (http://www.jdcsa.org/torque/articles/2003_09.pdf; also read
http://www.tc.gc.ca/roadsafety/tp/tp13082/abs2_e.htm). ABS does *not*
reduce stopping distance! I've noticed that in extremely hard
straight-line stops that I can do better with my older non-ABS Subaru AWD
than with my new ABS-equipped Subaru AWD. I'd rather smash the brakes
hard and use cadence to regulate how the car will crab in the turn so I
can then release at the proper time to actually avoid the car in front of
my go going to one side or the other. I'd rather not hit the stopped car
or obstacle than be oh-so-happy that I managed to keep the car pointing
straight ahead in a panic stop. I find ABS fights me having control. ABS
is for the inexperienced. Some enthusiasts will actually disable ABS. Of
course, the driver can still use cadence and exercise control above what
ABS provides (but practice is still needed); however, ABS was designed for
the pedal smashing monkey, the type which is prevalent on the highways.

Best place to get more legal advice might be in the us.legal group but
they usually want to know in which state the person is discussing. Many
states now provide the means to search their statutes. If the OP is not
is the U.S., they'll have to find out in their locality as to what laws
actually apply. I really doubt that removing non-legally required
equipment from your vehicle would result in extra punitive damages. I've
yet to hear of anyone losing a case for an accident in the fog because
they simply forgot to turn on their fog lamps that came on the car, or
getting penalized because they didn't add fog lamps.

Interesting statements, and yes, I have practiced driving many years ago on
frozen parking lots. Made my sister do it, too.

 

[Blair Baucom]

This is why they don't have ABS in Formula one:

"In the same way that too much power applied through a wheel will cause it
to spin, too much braking will cause it to lock as the brakes overpower the
available levels of grip from the tyre. Formula One previously allowed
anti-skid braking systems (which would reduce the brake pressure to allow
the wheel to turn again and then continue to slow it at the maximum possible
rate) but these were banned in the 1990s. Braking therefore remains one of
the sternest tests of a Formula One driver's skill."

I find abs to be of great benefit when one or two tires are on ice or snow
and the others on dry pavement. As I only have one brake pedal, I would give
up traction on the dry in order to maintain traction on the ice/snow and
possibly go into a spin. No person can possibly modulate each wheel
individually and this is where ABS shines.

No matter how good you are with threshold braking, you will still make
mistakes.

There are hundreds of sites where people argue over ABS, you have to make up
your own mind. Personally I have been very happy with ABS and have made sure
I had it on the last 4 of the 6 cars I have owned.

Again, I nor others were talking laws by the state or federal government. We
were referring to lawsuits in the legal system. I am sure my insurance agent
would like to know that I removed safety features from my automobile, as
would the lawyer representing the person I hit. Would it result in extra
punitive damages? I don't know, and I for one do not want to be a test case.

Blair

 

[dnoyeB]

I've never had a car with ABS, and my new/used Outback has it. I really
hate it. Can I turn it off by pulling the fuse? I'm aware of the safety
aspect, but IMO I feel I can do a better job myself.

There is one difference between a smart able driver like you and me, and
and a GOOD ABS system. ABS can release just 1 wheel when it slips
whereas you and me release all 4 just because 1 slipped. ABS overall
can give you better braking and control performance if you add your
skill on top of it.

Of course some cars have piss poor ABS systems. When my Chevy blazer's
ABS broke when a sensor went out, I happily left it that way. Later
they had recall and reprogrammed the ABS system since everyone
recognized the suckage. Run over a small pebble while braking and your
distance can double instantly. Subaru is much better.

--
Thank you,



"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16

 

[Theodrake]

There is one difference between a smart able driver like you and me, and
and a GOOD ABS system. ABS can release just 1 wheel when it slips
whereas you and me release all 4 just because 1 slipped. ABS overall
can give you better braking and control performance if you add your
skill on top of it.

Of course some cars have piss poor ABS systems. When my Chevy blazer's
ABS broke when a sensor went out, I happily left it that way. Later
they had recall and reprogrammed the ABS system since everyone
recognized the suckage. Run over a small pebble while braking and your
distance can double instantly. Subaru is much better.

Isn't their a ABS re-code out there for some Subaru's. I believe their
is for my 2003 WRX which I'm planning on trying to get. I was going
about 10 mph on a rough, dry, street when I applied the brakes, not real
hard and the ABS kicked in and I rolled out into the intersection. Only
a couple of feet, but it sure got my heart racing.

 

[Mike Deskevich]

Of course some cars have piss poor ABS systems. When my Chevy blazer's
ABS broke when a sensor went out, I happily left it that way. Later
they had recall and reprogrammed the ABS system since everyone
recognized the suckage. Run over a small pebble while braking and your
distance can double instantly. Subaru is much better.

that may be true for the newer subarus, but in my '99 legacy if one
wheel slips, i lose braking on all wheels. i've been tempted to pull
the fuse, but just like was stated earlier in the thread, i don't want
mr insurance man finding me at fault if i get into an accident.

 

[Michael Pardee]

that may be true for the newer subarus, but in my '99 legacy if one
wheel slips, i lose braking on all wheels. i've been tempted to pull
the fuse, but just like was stated earlier in the thread, i don't want
mr insurance man finding me at fault if i get into an accident.

I think it is a pickup/SUV thing. I was told they often have "two channel"
systems that behave that way. I used to have a Chevy work truck, circa 1998,
that would release the brakes if the rear wheel hopped. Braking on rough
roads was a breathtaking experience - bad news for a 4WD truck used
off-road. If I got the right wheels on ice the truck wouldn't stop at all
unless I stepped on the e-brake.

Mike

 

[Sheldon]

I think it is a pickup/SUV thing. I was told they often have "two channel"
systems that behave that way. I used to have a Chevy work truck, circa
1998, that would release the brakes if the rear wheel hopped. Braking on
rough roads was a breathtaking experience - bad news for a 4WD truck used
off-road. If I got the right wheels on ice the truck wouldn't stop at all
unless I stepped on the e-brake.

Mike

This is what I'm talking about. I find my car ABSing through slippery
intersections I never had trouble with before I got ABS. I know it lets me
steer, but I seem to go much farther than if I'm sliding "under control."
You'll never convince a cop or your insurance company that an experienced
driver can stop faster without ABS, but I would bet you can. And you'll
also never convince a cop or your insurance company that you slid into the
intersection BECAUSE you have ABS.

 

[Body Roll]

fault, put the fuse back in, otherwise your insurer could use this against

you.

Isn't this a simple matter of calling your insurance company and saying
that your
car does not have ABS anymore?

 

[-rick-]

Isn't their a ABS re-code out there for some Subaru's. I believe their
is for my 2003 WRX which I'm planning on trying to get.

There is. I had my '02 wrx done several months ago. The
ABS hasn't kicked on since and I keep forgetting to test it.

-rick-

 

[j]

For those of you wishing to disable ABS by pulling the fuse, but being
reluctant due to potential liability ramifications. Perhaps you could
replace the fuse with one that's been popped. Then, if it becomes an
issue, who knows who's at fault.

 

[Mike Deskevich]

For those of you wishing to disable ABS by pulling the fuse, but being
reluctant due to potential liability ramifications. Perhaps you could
replace the fuse with one that's been popped. Then, if it becomes an
issue, who knows who's at fault.

then the ABS light on the dash should light up and warn you of the
problem. you'd be in trouble for not fixing the problem. even if the
light didn't come on, you're still responsible for your car and any
"problems" it has.

 

[Body Roll]

then the ABS light on the dash should light up and warn you of the
problem. you'd be in trouble for not fixing the problem. even if the
light didn't come on, you're still responsible for your car and any
"problems" it has.

Not really. As it was mentioned before cars don't have to be equipped
with ABS.
In case someone would try to use ABS-out against you they would most
likely have to prove the fuse blew up before the trip an accident
happened on. If I were a lawyer I won't
try to pull a stint like that.