98' Outback / Ghost Inside?

[[ evL ]]

Hello folks, I have a problem, perhaps someone could help;

My 98' Outback wagon has the 'winter package'. With this package
is a switch next to the outside rear-view mirror adjustment 'joy-stick'
located to the far left of the dash-board. What this switch does
is de-frosts the outside rear-view mirrors. When you push the switch
in a little light on the switch lights up.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed this little light was dimly lit.
I push the switch in and it lit up brightly as usual. I thought
nothing of it. Sometimes it was lit and sometimes it wasn't.

The other day I am driving down the road and all the door locks
started locking and un-locking at the same time. I noticed the
door-timer relay was also clicking. Then the locks wouldn't work.

It used to be that with the key out of the ignition one could
select to lock or un-lock all the locks by using the switch on
either the driver or passenger door. This is not working now.
When I take the key out of the ignition all of them lock but then
the switches don't work. When I put the key in the ignition to
start it, they all lock as soon as the engine starts to turn over.
With the key in the "on" position or with the car running all the
locks work correctly with both switches. But of course now and then
they all start locking and un-locking on their own.
This I tell you is very freaky.

So here's the kicker. Now when I de-press the rear-view mirror
de-froster button all the doors lock. When pressed again they all
open. While this switch is pressed in none of the lock switches
work.???

Now I have checked all the fuses. I have a keyless entry box under
the dash and the two in-line fuses for it are good. I have never used
the key-less entry since I bought the car. I think there silly. Anyhow
I not only checked all the fuses to see if they were blown, I also
checked them for continuity. This was done to every fuse in the car.

Because none of the fuses are blown and the locks all work, the switches
work, I don't think I have a short. I am thinking a relay or who knows
what. It would seem a lot easier if the problem was just contained to the
door locks but with the de-frost button thrown in I am at a loss.

Any and suggestions would help, meanwhile I am going to start running the
multi-meter on everything.... This is a real bummer....

[ evL ]

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[johninKY]

Remove the driverside door panel and look around. Bet you find the source
of the problem there.

 

[Guy Macon]

Hello folks, I have a problem, perhaps someone could help;

My 98' Outback wagon has the 'winter package'. With this package
is a switch next to the outside rear-view mirror adjustment 'joy-stick'
located to the far left of the dash-board. What this switch does
is de-frosts the outside rear-view mirrors. When you push the switch
in a little light on the switch lights up.

A couple of weeks ago I noticed this little light was dimly lit.
I push the switch in and it lit up brightly as usual. I thought
nothing of it. Sometimes it was lit and sometimes it wasn't.

The other day I am driving down the road and all the door locks
started locking and un-locking at the same time. I noticed the
door-timer relay was also clicking. Then the locks wouldn't work.

It used to be that with the key out of the ignition one could
select to lock or un-lock all the locks by using the switch on
either the driver or passenger door. This is not working now.
When I take the key out of the ignition all of them lock but then
the switches don't work. When I put the key in the ignition to
start it, they all lock as soon as the engine starts to turn over.
With the key in the "on" position or with the car running all the
locks work correctly with both switches. But of course now and then
they all start locking and un-locking on their own.
This I tell you is very freaky.

So here's the kicker. Now when I de-press the rear-view mirror
de-froster button all the doors lock. When pressed again they all
open. While this switch is pressed in none of the lock switches
work.???

Now I have checked all the fuses. I have a keyless entry box under
the dash and the two in-line fuses for it are good. I have never used
the key-less entry since I bought the car. I think there silly. Anyhow
I not only checked all the fuses to see if they were blown, I also
checked them for continuity. This was done to every fuse in the car.

Because none of the fuses are blown and the locks all work, the switches
work, I don't think I have a short. I am thinking a relay or who knows
what. It would seem a lot easier if the problem was just contained to the
door locks but with the de-frost button thrown in I am at a loss.

Any and suggestions would help, meanwhile I am going to start running the
multi-meter on everything.... This is a real bummer....

Hi! I am an electronics engineer with a fair amount of auto
electrical experience. I don't know your skill level (or the
skill level of someone who reads this in an archive later),
so I will try for a simple explanation.

Here is how I would troubleshoot this:

Run a wire from the black lead of your multimeter to the negative
post of your battery (it's important that you do it there and not
to any other ground). Put it in the lowest DC voltage range that
will display the voltage on the positive post of the battery.

Now start measuring things with the red lead while they are
operating. You should see three kind of signal:

The kind that are always within a fraction of a volt of being 0V.
Those are "ground".

The kind that are always within a fraction of a volt of being
the same as the positive terminal of the battery. Those are "hot".

The kind that change between being within a fraction of a volt
of being 0V and being within a fraction of a volt of being the
same as the positive terminal of the battery. Those are "switched."

For example, when that little light is dimly lit, it should either
have hot on both sides of the light bulb or ground on both sides
of the light bulb. (one of each would make it be bright, not dim)
The fact that it's dimly lit tells us that the voltage on one
side or the other is wrong.

Small changes in these voltages are normal. measure a few things
that are working correctly to get a feel for what is normal for
your meter and your car. What you are looking for is a place
where the voltage doesn't come close enough to making it all the
way to hot or ground. Here is what to do if you find one:

GROUND: Let's say you find a ground that is at 2 volts. Follow
it back towards the battery or frame. when you find the place
where it changes to being a lot closer to 0V, you have found a bad
connection - good on one side, bad on the other.

HOT: Same as above, but this time you know that it won't connect
to the frame.

SWITCHED: Same as above, but the "bad connection" might be a bad
switch or relay.

If you get stuck. take notes of what voltages you see, where you
see them, and anything that changes them, and post them here.

I once rented an outback that would honk the horn every time
you slammed the door...

 

[[ evL ]]

Hello Guy and johninKY,

Well I must thank you for taking the time
to respond to my post. The both of you have
helped me with your suggestions.

Not that I want to, but I am going to start typing...

This morning I got johninKY's post, take off the door
panel. I thought, "ya, I should, but later on after work".
In warming up the car this morning; yes we still do that
this time of year in Montana, I noticed that the de-froster
worked on the passengers side mirror but not the drivers
side mirror. BINGO! A definite reason to remove the drivers
side door panel, thanks johninKY!

So I removed that today after work. Then dove into Guy's
suggestion. I noticed nothing odd on the meter. I did notice
something odd if the door was closed or open. You now know
where I am going... I even noticed something odd when the door
was semi-shut. I think I obviously have a problem in the
harness running directly between the door and the body. It
appears that it is getting smashed, although I still need to
dive into that, dinner was ready and I called it a day. But I
did get closer to understanding the problem. Some very good
points were made by Guy in just simply using a multi-meter
so the info was printed and saved for future reference.
Thanks Guy!

In summary, when I took off the door panel I had to unplug the
two plugs; the one to the window switches and the one to the
door switch. After doing so I noticed no problems. I thought hmmm.
So without putting the door panel back on I just removed the
switches from the panel and plugged them into their respective
wires. And ya know what? Everything worked perfectly fine.
Until I closed the door. Or closed the door half-way. So obviously
something is getting pinched and I am sure to solve the problem
with some more "looking into" which I plan to do tomorrow.

Despite my lengthy posts, I'll try to keep you updated. I must say
that the response from the both of you has put me closer to
finding the problem, and I appreciate it. Who knows how much you've
both saved my wallet. I just fired up a site that I am going to
start working on and it will be dedicated to trouble-shooting,
modifications, and what ever else needs to be there for Subaru's.
There is nothing there now but the URL is :: http://subaru.sent.org
and this info will be in there... [ Guy I really dug the multi-meter
tip! ] I'll be working on the site for the next couple of months.
Thanks!

Cheers!
[ evL ]

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