Timing belt, 1989 Subaru 1.8L Again! WTF am I DOING?!?!?

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

OK, went to remove the covers today. Got the right hand belt cover off OK,
of course the bolt hidden up under the radiator hose on the left cover
gave me a hard time. That is the belt that's broken.

As an aside, I was going to *PAY* someone to do this back in January,
since I didn't want to 'coast to a stop' as a used Subaru seller told me I
would. The guy that was going to do it said, "The belts look new."

Remind me never to go to him again. He's supposed to be one of the better
Subaru guys in the area, and he can't recognize an old belt?! It was only
1,500 miles ago, and the belt I could see (the one that's not broken)
does NOT look 'new'!! I should have pulled the cover and looked myself.

So, looking over the instructions again, it says to pull the water pump
pulley and then pull the crankshaft pulley. I don't think this is going to
go well...it's really rusty.

Also, I gave a look to the camshaft sprockets, and I can't see the tiiming
mark. I'll look again; maybe when I line the flywheel up I'll be able to
see it.

This is the interesting part I have seen in all the instructions I have
read:

Removal:
Yada yada Yada...

Step 14: Remove the camshaft sprockets using tool 49920700 or equivalent.

This is the end of the Removal instructions. Next Step...

To Install:

Step 15: Install the camshaft sprockets using tool 49920700 or equivalent
camshaft sprocket wrench to hold the camshaft in place...


Huh? Step 14 is to remove the camshaft sprockets, only to reinstall them
in the very next step? I'm sitting here scratching my head going, WHY?!?!?

The next step says to install the tensioners. IIRC, you never removed
them in the first place! (Turn the tensioner mounting bolt 1/2 turn and
rotate the tensioner out of the way...)

THEN it says, Install the timing belt.
THEN IT SAYS, install the camshaft sprockets.

Um, didn't we do that in Step 15????

I'm guessing we don't need to remove the camshaft sprockets?

The only thing is I would like to replace the tensioners, but they're too
much money to put into this car. I paid $400 for it over a year ago, and
it's getting rusty. Tensioners are $65 each...

Your ideas and comments are appreciated!

(um, also, for all that I have done for work on cars, I have never
replaced a timing belt before, let alone TWO! Have some patience, please!!)

 

[Steve Daniels]

OK, went to remove the covers today. Got the right hand belt cover off OK,
of course the bolt hidden up under the radiator hose on the left cover
gave me a hard time. That is the belt that's broken.

<much work anticipated>

Is the 1.8 an interference engine? Because if it is, at least
one of your valves and one of your pistons is seriously in need
of replacement. This work can turn spendy, fast.

How much money do you want to put into a twenty year old car?

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

<much work anticipated>

Is the 1.8 an interference engine? Because if it is, at least
one of your valves and one of your pistons is seriously in need
of replacement. This work can turn spendy, fast.

How much money do you want to put into a twenty year old car?

No, like I said, the guy at the Subaru place told me I'd just coast to a
stop. He knows Subys inside out. When it first quit I wasn't sure what
went wrong, so I tried starting it. Ever tried starting an Interference
engine with a broken belt after Mr. Valve got a little too intimate with
Ms. Piston?

I have a bunch of Toyotas too, all NI engines, and recognized the symptoms
on the second turn of the key. All too familiar...

The sad part is, in the past with my Toyotas it was by trying to squeeze
an extra 1-2,000 miles out of it...this time it was because someone
'familiar' with Subarus told me the belts were fine! (they weren't...)


Oh, and about $40. Two belts for $20 each. And an afternoon in tha back
yard. It's going to be in the 60's for the next couple days, thank God...

Any more than that and I'll be kicking myself for not selling it when junk
cars were up to $200...but it's a decent car. A little rusty, but not like
most Subarus of it's vintage; nowhere near. All in all it's in good shape,
and AWD to boot.

 

[Steve W.]

OK, went to remove the covers today. Got the right hand belt cover off OK,
of course the bolt hidden up under the radiator hose on the left cover
gave me a hard time. That is the belt that's broken.

As an aside, I was going to *PAY* someone to do this back in January,
since I didn't want to 'coast to a stop' as a used Subaru seller told me I
would. The guy that was going to do it said, "The belts look new."

Remind me never to go to him again. He's supposed to be one of the better
Subaru guys in the area, and he can't recognize an old belt?! It was only
1,500 miles ago, and the belt I could see (the one that's not broken)
does NOT look 'new'!! I should have pulled the cover and looked myself.

So, looking over the instructions again, it says to pull the water pump
pulley and then pull the crankshaft pulley. I don't think this is going to
go well...it's really rusty.

Also, I gave a look to the camshaft sprockets, and I can't see the tiiming
mark. I'll look again; maybe when I line the flywheel up I'll be able to
see it.

This is the interesting part I have seen in all the instructions I have
read:

Removal:
Yada yada Yada...

Step 14: Remove the camshaft sprockets using tool 49920700 or equivalent.

This is the end of the Removal instructions. Next Step...

To Install:

Step 15: Install the camshaft sprockets using tool 49920700 or equivalent
camshaft sprocket wrench to hold the camshaft in place...


Huh? Step 14 is to remove the camshaft sprockets, only to reinstall them
in the very next step? I'm sitting here scratching my head going, WHY?!?!?

The next step says to install the tensioners. IIRC, you never removed
them in the first place! (Turn the tensioner mounting bolt 1/2 turn and
rotate the tensioner out of the way...)

THEN it says, Install the timing belt.
THEN IT SAYS, install the camshaft sprockets.

Um, didn't we do that in Step 15????

I'm guessing we don't need to remove the camshaft sprockets?

The only thing is I would like to replace the tensioners, but they're too
much money to put into this car. I paid $400 for it over a year ago, and
it's getting rusty. Tensioners are $65 each...

Your ideas and comments are appreciated!

(um, also, for all that I have done for work on cars, I have never
replaced a timing belt before, let alone TWO! Have some patience, please!!)

The reason they are telling you to remove them then reinstall is that
usually you would check them for wear and probably replace them. You
also would replace any leaking seals.

What model is this? I show tensioners for 18 bucks or so each.

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1989/subaru/gl/engine_mechanical/timing_belt_tensioner.html

entire timing kit is 145.


--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!

 

[johninKY]

The EA82 engine is a non interference engine so no valve damage.

The fan and water pump pulley are retained by 10 or 12 mm bolts. Firs
remove the fan. Then the pulley. The water pump shaft directly behin
the pulley has 2 flat spots. Use an adjustable wrench to keep the shaf
from turning to loosen the 4 pulley bolts.

The timing mark on the camshaft pulley is nothing more than a small hol
just below the "toothy" part of the sprocket.

I don't bother to remove the sprockets when installing belts.

You can turn the camshafts by using a wrench/socket on one of the
sprocket bolts. Do this slowly because those little bolts can snap.

Removing the balancer can be a bear sometimes. Some people use the tric
of using a long breaker bar and using the starter to break it loose.

I use a mirror to see if the cover timing mark and sprocket time mark ar
in alignment. Plan on installing each belt a couple of times because th
marks will move out of alignment when the slack is taken out of the belt.


As for the tensioners, check that each spins freely and don't have an
wobble. A bad tensioner will "eat" a new belt in a few thousand miles.
Been there, done that. I deviate from the instructions here by jus
loosing the tensioners. I then hold them up, install the new belt an
then use a screwdriver to hold them down when a tighten the bolts.

I use a large screwdriver on the flywheel to turn the engine.

When you have everything togather, check the timing marks are still i
alignment by rotating the engine a few times. Marks tend to move when th
slack in the belts is taken out.

Will be gone for a few days. A friend and I are heading for Ohio in th
morning to bring back an XT6.

Don't know if I mentioned this but I always pull the radiator when doin
timing belts. Really helps to have the extra room. Don't forget abou
using a mirror. A dab of paint on the timing marks has always helped me.
Hard to see up in there.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

The reason they are telling you to remove them then reinstall is that
usually you would check them for wear and probably replace them. You
also would replace any leaking seals.

What model is this? I show tensioners for 18 bucks or so each.

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1989/subaru/gl/engine_mechanical/timing_belt_tensioner.html

entire timing kit is 145.

1989 GL hacthback? "Runabout"? It's a 2 door coupe that looks like a
Loyale. 1.8L engine.

Hmmm....it's not worth $145! Well, just barely.

Got the old belts off, got the new belts on, but belt #2 (driver's side)
is off by one tooth.

Have a gig tonight, will try again tomorrow...

BTW, I found all the things people told me to look for...not a real hard
job, prolly better removing the radiator (like a million razor blades!)
But otherwise, OK.

Things weren't *TOO* rusty!

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Don't know if I mentioned this but I always pull the radiator when doing
timing belts. Really helps to have the extra room.

*NOW* he tells me!

Actually, I was thinking of it...and thinking of it...and...

Thanks for the hints. I'm one tooth off on the 'back' belt, but I'll
correct that tomorrow...

 

[johninKY]

Steve, thanks for that link and also really liked the quote.

Other guy: What is being left out of those instructions you have tha
state remove the camshaft sprocket and then in the next step, install th
sprocket, is the timing belt is installed around the sprocket before it i
reinstalled. Going this way minimizes the slop in the belt that will alte
the timing when everything is torqued but what happens in most cases is th
camshaft will "snap" forward before you can line up and install th
sprocket bolts.

When you get around to rotating the camshafts to line up the timing mark
you will discover the camshaft will resist rotating and then snap forwar
about 45 degrees. This is caused by the valve springs.

My advice is to leave the sprockets alone. A little difficult to instal
the belts going this way but not impossible. The belt on the driver'
side will give you the most problems. Just not that much room between th
sprocket and plastic cover. I just use a DULL screwdriver to fully sea
the belt onto the sprocket

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

My advice is to leave the sprockets alone. A little difficult to install
the belts going this way but not impossible. The belt on the driver's
side will give you the most problems.

LOL! NO KIDDING!!!

Just not that much room between the
sprocket and plastic cover. I just use a DULL screwdriver to fully seat
the belt onto the sprocket.

I just used my fingers, rotated the engine 1 full revolution, seated the
smaller belt, and went around again. That's when I saw the mark was off by
one tooth, must have moved when I slid the belt over the tensioner.

I'm going to try sneaking the belt off the pulley and move the sprocket 1
tooth back and then see if it all lines up. The passenger's side did this
too, but it was easier to reseat the belt on that side.

Never did a timing belt before, let alone TWO!