Chris Phillipo said:
Thank you for that info, I'm going to ask a few local independent
mechanics if they have experience replacing them. The nearest subaru
dealer is a 3 hours highway drive from here where as the Toyota dealer
is just down the street so this further complicates the decision for me.
Chris,
First suggestion: if I were 3 hours from a Subaru dealer, I would
probably hesitate to go with Subaru for that reason alone. Maybe not
justified in your case, but worth considering. I am still at this time
pro-Subaru, and pro-Forester but read on:
We have two 99 Foresters, both owned since new, one purchased Jan 99,
the other July 99. We have 89,000 miles on the first one, and 78,000 miles
on the second. I have just been through MUCH haggling with both the local
Subaru dealership here in western part of Virginia and SOA concerning these
bearing issues.
Bottom line: _Apparently_, neither car has the problem. We thought one
did, but it seems that the noise we were hearing and thought was a rear
bearing (and which the dealership Subaru technician thought also) was not
bearing related. We now think it may have been uneven tire wear in the rear
making the noise, though a front to back tire rotation didn't initially seem
to eliminate the noise (got new tires about 8,000 miles ago; the rears were
wearing on the outside edges; I need to align again, I guess.) When the shop
did put the car up on the rack and listen for noise (after I had rotated
first, as suggested) they could hear nothing. I don't hear the noise anymore
either, and have to admit I'm a bit baffled. Could have been oversensitivity
on my part once I was sure I had a bearing problem (since the technician--a
good tech, I believe-- thought so too after a test-drive with me.)
In any case, I can say that Subaru of America is VERY hard to deal with
concerning the bearing issue. They admit to nothing, they minimize the
problem, and yet Subaru has gone to the trouble of designing a special tool
for the express purpose of repairing these bearings ON THE CAR, saving
repair time, and getting dealerships to buy this tool.
NOTE, the time frame for changing this bearing is NOT NECESSARILY the
0.8 hours for one bearing and 1.5 hours for two bearings as Ed Hayes
suggested. That time frame ONLY APPLIES IF some of the cost is being covered
by Subaru, which according to SOA customer service person I dealt with,
forces the whole repair to be covered at WARRANTY rates, where book rates
are used. Many dealerships (maybe all?) will not use this rate for the wheel
bearing repair because they say the time frame is actually much longer than
allowed by warranty rate, and they will charge you whatever the ACTUAL time
requires for this repair. They estimate 1.5 to 2 hours PER bearing (per
side?) is reasonable, though it can take much longer if some of the parts
are resistant to removal, like a long bolt that sometimes takes much
difficulty to get it out.
I investigated ALL of this in advance of letting anyone put my car on
the lift to work on it. SOA was unwilling (flat out refused!) to let me meet
with or talk with my regional representative about this problem. I could
only call the CS reps and talk to them, and what it all boiled down to was
that they wanted the dealership to confirm the problem first, and THEN they
would talk to me about POSSIBLE coverage of PART of the repair. I used every
point of leverage I could, including emphasizing that these are our first
Subarus ever, and we very much want to continue to buy Foresters since they
fit our needs so well, but I insisted these would be the LAST Subarus in our
family if we end up eating rear bearing repair costs long before reasonable
life expectations, or repeated repairs of same problem. I have read about
both of these issues on this group and online, as have you.
SOA is not going to admit to a problem, will minimize it, and will
suggest it is normal to have some failures (true, but what we do not have
access to is _how many_ are failing.) They assure us we should not expect to
have recurring problems with them. In fact, as the CS rep told me, they are
still today building these Foresters with the _ball bearings_, even in 2005
models. The rep told me he had ordered a 2005 for his mother, and had no
lack of confidence in the ball bearings on these cars. (Good for him!)
I'm uneasy about it, myself. I'm still stuck on the fence about the
issue. We might have been ready to buy new Foresters before long (ours are
running wonderfully well, though, so only desires for additional features
would push us that direction, and we might well wait several years depending
on how ours keep holding up.) I now will not even consider new Foresters
until I am satisfied that this problem has been blown out of proportion (it
may indeed) and that the newer models are NOT having any occurrences of
failed wheel bearings.
No wheel bearings should be failing at the 30 and 40 and 50 thousand
mile points as have sometimes been reported. Nor should they be failing
within 3-10K after being repaired, as has also been reported. Any auto
manufacturer tolerating these numbers is headed for bad times, in my
opinion. I sure hope SOA doesn't go that route; they do make fine cars, I'm
convinced.
I do not know where one can lay hands on the actual numbers of problems,
however, and so I have had to base all my conclusions on the circumstantial
evidence available: There are many reports of problems online; there IS a
special tool designed just for this repair, so it has to be happening enough
to justify the existence of the tool; SOA HAS covered PART of many repairs
under warranty terms long after the warranty expired; the fix uses roller
bearings rather than ball bearings.
(IN FAIRNESS ON THIS ISSUE: the SOA CS reps have told me that the reason
for this is that the ball type bearing cannot be changed ON THE CAR, only
the roller type will work with the specially designed tool. He insisted that
there is no inherent weakness or underbuilt aspect to the ball bearings, and
the fact that they are still the standard bearing put in the current cars
says it is sufficient for the loads encountered by the vehicle. I can't
argue with that, since I have not enough knowledge of the various concerns
involved with switching to roller type bearings in new manufactured
Foresters. Maybe it is needed, maybe not. Time will tell on that one.)
This is a long post, but I think I have been around the issue from
enough angles to say that the only conclusion _I_ can come to is, KEEP
WATCHING. Maybe _we_ will never have the problem on either Forester. Maybe
we already have it on both but it isn't bad enough to warrant detection or
repair yet. For now, we're going to keep driving, and yes, keep enjoying our
Foresters. Good luck to you on whatever you choose to buy.
PS. The Forester handles beautifully, has plenty of power for fast
highway speeds, and is very functional for active lifestyles, and in my
opinion, are good looking vehicles. I personally PREFER the smaller size of
a mini-SUV. (I think the bigger SUVs are rather excessive for many folks,
unless they truly have enough passengers in normal use, or usually haul
heavy loads to justify their higher fuel consumption.)
--
D N
I E T S
Off to R the M __, D H
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