R.I.P. General Motors (1931-2006)

[Gosi]

These greedy corporate types will soon put you out on your butt
The Unions should have made sure that changes were made so
profitability would keep the company going
It is too late to feel sorry now
The bankruptcy will happen soon
Those greedy fuckers on top will make sure of that as soon as they have
got as much out of the company and into their own pockets

 

[John Horner]

The problem is called Wall Street. Pay investors everything including
seed, then there's nothing left.
mark_

Not really. General Electric, for example, is a very well managed
company which continues to thrive while at the same time being well
regarded by the investment community.

You have misplaced your anger.

John

 

[mark_digital]

"its
the union thats totally wiping out their profits. unions nowadays do
more
harm than good."

HMMM...Lucky for the greedy corporate types that those Chinese workers
LOVE to work 16 hours a day, in hazardous and dangerous conditions,
fueled by power that spews huge amounts of pollution (There is just so
much hydro) And they LOVE to live in conditions sub par to western
counterparts, FOR JUST PENNIES A DAY!!!

Us DIRTY ROTTEN union members who take a small percentage of the
corporate profit (who the **** was ACTUALLY making the product/profit
anyway??) and by supporting our families and living our lives, ALL THE
FUCKING MONEY GETS PASSED ON, to the rest of the economy. Ever hear how
every dollar earned helps support 10 to 20 other businesses??

If corporations had their way us DIRTY ROTTEN union members would be
working for Chinese wages and only the guys at the top would be getting
the REAL money.

OH, by the way...If you are NOT union and you are NOT the owner of the
company, you can thank your local union members for dragging UP the
wages in your chosen profession, because if they did not pay your sorry
SCAB ass the union scale, YOU would be working for wages like our
Chinese counterparts, PENNIES INSTEAD OF DOLLARS...

NO ONE BUT OWNERS OF A COMPANY HAS ANY RIGHT TO BITCH ABOUT A UNION.

Friggn' scabs need to be boiled in oil...

You bring up an interesting and true point about how non-union businesses
figure how much they'll pay their help by comparing themselves to a union
business. But it's only the tip of the iceberg. Non-profits do exactly the
same thing. For example, Mercy Hospital in Springfield MA is union, and
right next door is Baystate Hospital, a non-union. Baystate looks at the
recent negotiations Mercy went through and ties it's pay raise to that of
Mercy's.
But there's also the other side of the union coin. I have yet to see union
stewards put in only the allotted hours during the business day on company
time. Recently Danaher tools closed and moved down south. They make
Craftsman ratchet wrenches. Right up to the last minute of operations the
union guys were making deals with the company totally disregarding the needs
of the low people. they were out for themselves and now I hope they're
working at a place they REALLY have to work.
I was asked to become a union steward (not at the place I just mentioned, I
just happen to know someone who worked there) because they like how I
handled things. I told them I didn't like how they handled things and how
they didn't know when to back off. I also said to stop looking for trouble
and go back to your machine and start making parts you lazy ass.
I worked there for 25 years and could get away saying that. I also told my
supervisors to go screw themselves and leave me alone so I could make money
for the company. You see, there's goofballs on both sides of the fence.

 

[hondaman]

about the Chevy Aveo and also the Chevy HHR. They are NOT DAEWOO cars and GM
does not own Daewoo. The Aveo and the HHR are are both rebadged Suzukis just
the GEO's were. Somebody needs to quit making things up. GM has partnered
with Suzuki and Toyota in the past. I think the Geo Prizm was actually a
Toyota Corolla. I know the compact sized Chevy Novas were actually Toyota
Corollas and they weren't bad cars but not as good as a Honda of course.


-jeff

 

[Mike Hunter]

Why is it OK for consumers to take advantage of low wage countries but not
for the manufactures to do the same? If Americans keep buying from other
counties the only thing their kids will need to know is how to say "Do you
want fries with that? or Welcome to WalMart" Better wise up they are YOUR
jobs that are being lost


mike hunt

 

[Mike Hunter]

Finally somebody has said it, Prescient Bush is at fault for GMs problems.
LOL


mike hunt

 

[Jeff]

(...)

They are watching the Northwest airlines bankruptcy and how it goes
down. They will follow in it's footsteps.

The unions that will remain strongest are the ones that represent government
workers.

The MTA had a strike on NYC's subways and buses, the NYC teachers got a
better contract, Philadelphia's transit went on strike.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

Dear Jeff,

Having worked as an hourly employee and having had management in the
family, I can tell you what a union would do for Wal-mart: Less than
nothing. Wal-mart would have a gigantic going out of business sale.

I doubt it. If the entire chain became unioned, it would either be go out of
business or work with the unions.

Sam Walton would have rather died than go union. And the people running
the company now are of the same mind. But Sam had good wages and benefits
back in the day.

And with unions, they would pay decent wages and get decent benefits.

He actually RAISED the standard of living for his employees in some of
the small towns he first built stores in.

And now, they lower the standards of living both in the communities and for
their workers. Gee, what a great a thing.

Also, Unions have been a disaster for the Public Schools. I watched the
standards slide quite a bit in just the 13 years I was in public school.
I have some friends that recently came out of public school and they are
telling me stuff that would scare people. It's becoming increasingly
about indoctrination. And our governor here in Illinois wants to push for
2 years of pre-school for all, so they can indoctrinate the little kiddies
more. It's not mandatory, yet, but neither was Kindergarten.

And this is all the unions' fault?

I teach in a public school in NYC. Without the unions, the schools would
have teachers work before school watching the kids during breakfast and
after school, tutoring and all, for no more pay. In addition, they would
have teachers teach 6 or 7 classes a day. It would be horrible for the
students, because teachers need time to plan lesssons and prepare for class.
The administration would treat teachers horribly.

In NYC, the city appointed an acting principal to be the full-time principal
after 40+ teachers at the school signed a petition against him. The
principal had run a charter school into Philadelphia into the ground before
coming to NYC. Is that the union's fault? You can read about it here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/403462p-341737c.html
(note: it seems that the principal didn't get to stay, because he has been
indicted for fraud concerning his actions in Philadelphia.)

Jeff

 

[Lee Florack]

Unions were a great idea way back when. Unfortunately, now the unions still
want the company to cover their employees from cradle to grave, even when
the cost of health care has gone through the roof, and is now the major part
of the cost of most autos made here under union rules.

As a self-employed person, I either have to pass these costs on to my
clients, or suck it up myself. When GM even tries to pass some of these
costs onto their employess they refuse to share in the cost. The employees
are the greedy ones, the ones who won't give an inch to keep their jobs.
Let's be honest. Japanese manufacturers have no problem finding employees
to work in their plants in the US, with no unions.

100 agree. Labor and management should be a partnership -- not an
adversarial confrontation. Labor unions are not only no longer
needed, they are dangerous. GM & Ford are prime examples.

 

[E Varden]

Two years ago the Canadian Oshawa GM plant won a large award as the most
efficient and quality-producing automotive plant in the world.

GM then closed it down.

Would you trust these people to tighten your nuts?


Pe











..


I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html

 

[mark_digital]

Not really. General Electric, for example, is a very well managed
company which continues to thrive while at the same time being well
regarded by the investment community.

You have misplaced your anger.

John

About a half hour ride from here is an abandon GE factory and all the ground
water is polluted for miles. Don't take it personally John, but screw you.
mark_

 

[Jeff]

about the Chevy Aveo and also the Chevy HHR. They are NOT DAEWOO cars and
GM does not own Daewoo. The Aveo and the HHR are are both rebadged Suzukis
just the GEO's were. Somebody needs to quit making things up. GM has
partnered with Suzuki and Toyota in the past. I think the Geo Prizm was
actually a Toyota Corolla. I know the compact sized Chevy Novas were
actually Toyota Corollas and they weren't bad cars but not as good as a
Honda of course.

Actually, they were the same care as the Toyota Corolla. And a good deal,
too. You could buy one for less than the same Toyota.

They were built on the same assembly plant on the same line.

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

About a half hour ride from here is an abandon GE factory and all the
ground water is polluted for miles. Don't take it personally John, but
screw you.
mark_

One thing about almost all companies, including Walmart, Ford, GE and IBM is
that they are in business to make money for their stockbrokers. They are not
in business for their costumers, employees or the environment.

It's the American way.

That also means that we need to make protections for other stake holders.
These protections include unions and laws.

Jeff

 

[n5hsr]

I doubt it. If the entire chain became unioned, it would either be go out
of business or work with the unions.

Trust me, it would have the biggest going out of business sale you ever saw.

And with unions, they would pay decent wages and get decent benefits.

But they're doing that now in most of the places they are. They're actually
paying something like $10.00 an hour to new hires. I had to work 10 years
to get to 6.55 an hour.

And now, they lower the standards of living both in the communities and
for their workers. Gee, what a great a thing.

Sorry, you can't prove that, that's just union propaganda.

And this is all the unions' fault?

Yes it is. By the NEA demanding more money be thrown at the problem time
and time again, while refusing any accountability on the part of their
teachers, we have made the problem a lot worse in the last 40 years. We've
been throwing money at the problem every time the NEA says to since 1965 and
our schools here in Illinois are a national embarrasment. And if you
remember, the NEA doesn't support the "No Child Left Behind" act, because it
promotes merit pay, which any union is against, including the NEA.

I teach in a public school in NYC. Without the unions, the schools would
have teachers work before school watching the kids during breakfast and
after school, tutoring and all, for no more pay. In addition, they would
have teachers teach 6 or 7 classes a day. It would be horrible for the
students, because teachers need time to plan lesssons and prepare for
class. The administration would treat teachers horribly.

In NYC, the city appointed an acting principal to be the full-time
principal after 40+ teachers at the school signed a petition against him.
The principal had run a charter school into Philadelphia into the ground
before coming to NYC. Is that the union's fault? You can read about it
here:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/403462p-341737c.html
(note: it seems that the principal didn't get to stay, because he has been
indicted for fraud concerning his actions in Philadelphia.)

Jeff

I see teachers working before and after school here in Illinois and they are
union. So what damn good did your union do?

Charles of Schaumburg

 

[n5hsr]

Actually, they were the same care as the Toyota Corolla. And a good deal,
too. You could buy one for less than the same Toyota.

They were built on the same assembly plant on the same line.

Jeff

But those and the Geo Prism were built to GM specs, not Toyota specs. There
is a difference. I've seen a lot more Toyotas of that vintage than
Novas/Prisms on the road.

Charles of Schaumburg

 

[n5hsr]

(...)

They are watching the Northwest airlines bankruptcy and how it goes
down. They will follow in it's footsteps.

The unions that will remain strongest are the ones that represent
government workers.

The MTA had a strike on NYC's subways and buses, the NYC teachers got a
better contract, Philadelphia's transit went on strike.

Jeff

You must be one of the union leaders, because time and again here in
Illinois, the unions demonstrate they are only in it for the top brass, to
hell with the workers.

Case in point: A manufacturing company has a factory in Chicago. Business
is good, so it asked the union if it could expand. The union refused. So
it is now in the process of building a bigger, non-union shop in a different
town. It will eventually close the union shop.

Another factory in another town voted to take a pay cut to keep a plant open
but the union bigwigs overturned the vote and forced the plant closed.

My grandfather belonged to a union. In those days the union was really for
the little guy. Now they only want to make their members vote DemonCratic
and collect their dues for their PAC. I belonged to a union once. Never
again, Lord willing. Unions might as well be called Soviets anymore.

Charles of Schaumburg.

 

[Jeff]

(...)


The unions that will remain strongest are the ones that represent
government workers.

The MTA had a strike on NYC's subways and buses, the NYC teachers got a
better contract, Philadelphia's transit went on strike.

Jeff

You must be one of the union leaders, because time and again here in
Illinois, the unions demonstrate they are only in it for the top brass, to
hell with the workers.

Try first year teacher and bottom-rung union member.

Case in point: A manufacturing company has a factory in Chicago.
Business is good, so it asked the union if it could expand. The union
refused. So it is now in the process of building a bigger, non-union shop
in a different town. It will eventually close the union shop.

I doubt they will close the schools in NYC.

Another factory in another town voted to take a pay cut to keep a plant
open but the union bigwigs overturned the vote and forced the plant
closed.

My grandfather belonged to a union. In those days the union was really
for the little guy. Now they only want to make their members vote
DemonCratic and collect their dues for their PAC. I belonged to a union
once. Never again, Lord willing. Unions might as well be called Soviets
anymore.

I vote Democratic. And I have proudly done so long before I joined a union.

Jeff, Proud to be union and liberal

 

[Jeff]

Trust me, it would have the biggest going out of business sale you ever
saw.

No, it wouldn't be. Do you think that the rich people will let their
billions of dollars of equity go down the toilet? I don't think so.

But they're doing that now in most of the places they are. They're
actually paying something like $10.00 an hour to new hires. I had to work
10 years to get to 6.55 an hour.

Really? Evidence please. Can you support a family on what they pay (don't
forget to adjust the annual wages based on the hours people actually work at
Walmart).

Sorry, you can't prove that, that's just union propaganda.
http://www.laane.org/pressroom/stories/walmart/040705inthesetimes.html

http://cecd.aers.psu.edu/pubs/PovertyResearchWM.pdf


Yes it is. By the NEA demanding more money be thrown at the problem time
and time again, while refusing any accountability on the part of their
teachers, we have made the problem a lot worse in the last 40 years.

Teachers are only asking for fair pay and working conditions.

We've been throwing money at the problem every time the NEA says to since
1965 and our schools here in Illinois are a national embarrasment. And if
you remember, the NEA doesn't support the "No Child Left Behind" act,
because it promotes merit pay, which any union is against, including the
NEA.

Where in the act is there a requirement for merit pay?

So the problems in Illinois are fault of the unions? The administration and
parents have no fault to bear?

Jeff

 

[Jeff]

But those and the Geo Prism were built to GM specs, not Toyota specs.
There is a difference. I've seen a lot more Toyotas of that vintage than
Novas/Prisms on the road.

And how many Toyotas Corolas vs. Novas/Prisisms of that vintage were sold
near you?

What real evidence do you have that the Toyotas were any better than the
Chevys?

Jeff

 

[R Sweeney]

My question is: Why is it that the US can't figure out what we want to
buy?

because car manufacturers have internal insular cultures whose members all
live in the suburbs of Detroit Michigan, which is itself not exactly a
mirror of America

an island of islands

Take the hybrid for instance.
In Detroit, they did the math.

The truth: hybrids cost more money to make than they will EVER save in the
miserable improvement in gas mileage they bring over a similar all gas
model.

So, in Detroit, hybrids made no sense.

But in the California design centers of the Japanese makers, American
designers and engineers realized that it isn't facts, it's emotion that
drive auto purchases.

People WANT to believe they are "doing right" and green is the new religion.

As a religion, it's based on faith.

So hybrids are incredibly desirable to the green faithful... even though its
all a sham.

They got it, Detroit missed it.