Outback vs. Matrix

[Ray]

My wife and I drove my brother to a Toyota dealer to look at cars and we
were
looking at the Matrix. How does the Matrix compare to the Subaru Outback??

 

[Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik]

My wife and I drove my brother to a Toyota dealer to look at cars and we
were
looking at the Matrix. How does the Matrix compare to the Subaru

Outback??

Reliability and resale.......

Toyota= 9
Subaru=3 at best

 

[Bryan Lee]

Why would you give it a "3" in reliability. I still see alot of early 80's
subarus running around. If you go to most subaru sites ( i-club.com and
nasioc.com ) you will read that people get well into high 100k miles with no
problems and trade in their subarus for a new subaru. I did alot of
research before I got my '04 WRX Wagon( the same car as the Impreza Outback
but with a turbo and alot faster {0-60 mph in the mid 5 sec.} ). I love it
so much that I put 4k miles on it in 2months just because I love driving it
so much. I am now a total convert and will get another subaru for my next
car. Thats from a person that also owns a '03 Mazda MPV(great little van) ,
'64 Pontiac Grand Prix with a 389 and Tri-power (3 2bbl carbs) and a '56
Ford F 100 P/U with a built Chevy 327. Try the Subaru, I think you might
really like it. Do'nt forget that all Subarus come with awd. Try the WRX
you will far in love. Also remember that the Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe
are the same car so, if you do'nt get the subaru get the one with the lowest
price. As for resale it not that they are bad car, it just not as well
known as toyota. What do that book state as subarus resale? Or is the
resale comment just your opinion?

 

[Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik]

Why would you give it a "3" in reliability. I still see alot of early 80's
subarus running around. If you go to most subaru sites ( i-club.com and
nasioc.com ) you will read that people get well into high 100k miles with no
problems and trade in their subarus for a new subaru. I did alot of
research before I got my '04 WRX Wagon( the same car as the Impreza Outback
but with a turbo and alot faster {0-60 mph in the mid 5 sec.} ). I love it
so much that I put 4k miles on it in 2months just because I love driving it
so much. I am now a total convert and will get another subaru for my next
car. Thats from a person that also owns a '03 Mazda MPV(great little van) ,
'64 Pontiac Grand Prix with a 389 and Tri-power (3 2bbl carbs) and a '56
Ford F 100 P/U with a built Chevy 327. Try the Subaru, I think you might
really like it. Do'nt forget that all Subarus come with awd. Try the WRX
you will far in love. Also remember that the Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe
are the same car so, if you do'nt get the subaru get the one with the lowest
price. As for resale it not that they are bad car, it just not as well
known as toyota. What do that book state as subarus resale? Or is the
resale comment just your opinion?

The comments about the POOR resale value on Subaru's is directly from the
prices in the Southern California (USA) Market.
Maybe they have a good resale in the UK, But NOT here.
Read the comments RIGHT HERE in this newsgroup. WAY too many failures that
are just "Not Acceptable". Vehicles that are less than 5 years old needing
engines, transmissions and LOTS of dealer work.
Read the comments from the owners themselves. Blown head gaskets,electrical
problems, AWD problems,leaking water(into the car), chipping/denting
bodywork, and TONS of other problems.
Yeah I know, have heard from others that just ***LOVE*** their cars, but
have heard plenty from others that didn't enjoy the engine fires (have seen
a few myself) caused by oil leaking on hot engine surfaces(poorly designed
oil control valve). Heard about wimpy alternators that can't keep up with
electrical demands (cheap) to A/C that sucks in slow traffic or at
stoplights.
Granted, the Subaru's ARE "faster" then your average Toyota, but you cant
even come CLOSE to comparing dependability to Honda,Toyota and even Nissan.
Most of them HERE are purchased by guys with more testosterone than brains.
Most drive like complete assholes (had one in our neighborhood) blasting
thru the canyons at better then 60 MPH,passing on curves,driving over the
double yellow lines. We were going to run him off the road, but we found the
car and loosened ALL the lugnuts while it was parked in his driveway. We
dont know what happened, but the car is no longer around..too bad but they
guy was a complete asshole.
If you want to drive fast, get the WRX..if you want to keep it a long time
and know it will get you there and still have a tradein value, get the
Toyota.
Some might not like it (and thats to be expected) but it's **MY** 2¢...

 

[Byron]

Ray,

Our dear friend Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik is the resident newsgroup troll.
The consensus of the NG is that he's a former Subaru employee that was
fired for cause and is just trying to stir up whatever reactions he can
get. He's told us he's purposely run his truck into the path of Subaru
vehicles which forced them offroad. He takes great pride in that.

My parents have a '97 Outback wagon with 170,000 miles and it's going
strong in Vermont with nothing more than scheduled maintenance. It's
been more reliable than their '90 Honda(155,000mi) and as reliable as
their '93 Honda(160,000). My grandparents have had several Subaru
vehicles since the mid '80s, including a GL wagon and 2 Legacy's. Their
latest one is an '00 Outback sedan. They use it for bringing back wood
from trees they cut down in the woods (their home in New Hampshire is
heated primarily with wood) and for seasonal trips to Virginia and
Canada. They also have needed nothing but scheduled maintenance. My
'02 WRX wagon with 59,000 miles has been the most reliable car I've ever
owned ('84 Toyota (168,000 mi), '86 Chevy(113,000mi), '95 VW(146,000mi),
'01 VW(12,000mi RIP)). I've even towed cross country in it. My car has
handled the snow and ice and humidity of New England as well as it has
the desert of Arizona.

Check out Consumer Reports magazine, and listen to the range of
experiences of other people on this newsgroup.

Byron

 

[Bryan Lee]

Wow! Your sound like your are on fire. Which Subaru mad you so mad? The
problem must people have is what the tranny of the WRX. 9 times out of 10
it the drivers fault. AWD car really stress the drivetrain when rev the
engine and dump the clutch. Or speed shift into second. In FWD and RWD
cars you can get the tire to chirp when you shift into second. In a AWD it
again stresses the drivetrain. I would say to the person that started the
post. Goto the web site I listed and you can read for yourself. I might be
bais after a year of enjoying my car(by the way I'm not a complete A**hole.
I'm 33 married with 2 kids) but, the Doc is.. I do'nt know what to call it?

 

[Charlez]

The Matrix would compare to the Impreza in size and price.

The base engine of the Impreza has more torque and you have the choice of
manual or automatic transmission.

The base Matrix will be more fuel efficient and should have a better network
of dealers

There was a big deal in Quebec because a local automotive journalist put the
Toyota Corrolla on a dyno test and it did produce less than 100hp (97hp)
Since the Matrix is the Wagon version of the Corrolla, you can see that the
engine might be a bit less powerfull than expected.

Another car in the same category is the Suzuki Alerio

I find that these three cars are interesting and should be worth a look.

A last piece of information, The Impreza TS Wagon is the entry level car
sold by Subaru, on the Subaru impreza plateform, you can have much more
equipment like the Outback Sport and the WRX.
In order to simply match the Impreza Wagon features and capabilities, you
have to select the most loaded version of the Matrix or Suzuki


Charles Leblanc
Impreza 2000

 

[hippo]

My wife and I drove my brother to a Toyota dealer to look at cars and we were
looking at the Matrix. How does the Matrix compare to the Subaru
Outback??

Are you asking about OB or OB Sport? The OB Sport is basically an Impreza
wagon with body cladding. Matrix is probably better on fuel in most
situations and may give you higher; OB sport is arguably more controlled,
nicer to drive and more responsive in most situations. If you mean the
Outback, it's a bit of an an apples and oranges comparison. They're both
wagons and they both have 4 wheels and 5 seats. That's about it really.
Cheers

 

[JD]

Outback??

Reliability and resale.......

Toyota= 9
Subaru=3 at best

Don't pay any attention to Rastis. He just hates Subaru.

I hav a freind with a Matrix and he loves the thing. However, I like the
Subaru because the AWD system is simpler and more effective; simpler is more
reliable and easier to fix if it goes wrong. I live in a northern climate
and spend a lot of time on bad roads.

I don't think you could go wrong with either car; it will come down to
preference.

 

[P T]

In August I compared the Vibe to Forester.

The Forester was more $. OTOH it was also larger, and had anti-lock
brakes and some other feature that I wanted, that was optional on the
Vibe. According to Consumer Reports it was also faster and quieter,
which was important as both cars were a step down in this department,
compared to what I had been driving. It is also AWD, which seems a
little intriguing; although I've gotten by with FWD for most of my life,
AWD can't hurt in Minnesota.

For these reasons, I got a Forester.

On the down side for the Forester, the Vibe gets better mpg, and has the
blockbuster Toyota name behind it, although this may not translate into
resale, if that's important. I also give extra points to the Vibe since
it is built by Americans (or at least, Californians) instead of Japs.

Both companies are reasonably mature: Subarus are better than they were
20 years ago, I think, just as Toyotas are better than they were 35-40
years ago, and as Hyundais will be in 10-15 years.

In short, the Forester gave a lot more for a little more money, in my
opinion. I think the Vibe twins are good cars too. Drive them, look at
what you want, do the numbers, and good luck.

I know you are looking at an Outback not a Forester, but I couldn't
resist hearing myself talking
Pete

 

[Bonehenge]

. I also give extra points to the Vibe since
it is built by Americans (or at least, Californians) instead of Japs.

So are Outbacks, but I'm a sure there are at least a few Japanese
folks in the Indiana plant.

Barry

 

[Hal Whelply]

.... I also give extra points to the Vibe since
it is built by Americans (or at least, Californians) instead of Japs.

You haven't been to California lately...if ever...have you?

Built by Americans (of various ethnicities), yes, but the downside for me
would be having to deal with a Pontiac store.

 

[T]

Two totally different movies. They don't compare to each other.


8]) <-- see?, smiley face.


TBerk

 

[T]

Ray,

Our dear friend Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik is the resident newsgroup troll.
Yikes!;

Don't forget folks, there is no protection from the law if you decide to
shoot off your yap. 8])

The consensus of the NG is that he's a former Subaru employee that was
fired for cause and is just trying to stir up whatever reactions he can
get. He's told us he's purposely run his truck into the path of Subaru
vehicles which forced them offroad. He takes great pride in that.

LOL, Thx for the fyi.

btw, on topic: I have a good friend who has been driving a 2002 WRX
without any problems, never been in the shop except for regular
maintenance and recall work (of which there hadn't been any preceding
symptoms, it was preventative.)


TBerk
Well, the Driver's Window squeaks a little.

 

[Charlez]

About Subaru reliability:

I just spent 1500$ for new injectiors on my 2000 Impreza 2.2L

I might not be a newsgroup troll, but I have a legitimate complain about a
reliability issue.

The car was maintained in accordance with the service schedule, every major
maintenance was performed by a Subaru certified mechanic
The car was not abused
Almost no city driving
I had the car for 51 month when the injectors had to be replaced... out of
warranty
Car is running fine now.

Is my next car going to be a Subaru? If you asked me that question before
the problem, I would have said yes

Now, when I thing about it, there were some issues with the car:

The battery did not last trought the first year, was replaced under
warranty.
Many bulbs burned in the dash.
Windshield washer fluid would leak inside the hatchback door (I repaired it)
Rear wiper blade seized after third year (I repaired it)
Front driver side carped worn trought
Driver seat worn.
Rattle coming from the back
Rear springs too low

I had a friend that had a 1998 Accord and he had less problems, better
milleage, better performance.

My next car... I might go for a truck, I am starting to have a need for it*,
however, the fuel milleage is terrible! and they are very expensive

* transport of some wood, logging, traillering a 40' boat,

If I get a car... probably an Accord, can't go wront with it

Charles Leblanc
2000 Impreza

 

[Byron]

About Subaru reliability:

I just spent 1500$ for new injectiors on my 2000 Impreza 2.2L

I might not be a newsgroup troll, but I have a legitimate complain about a
reliability issue.

The car was maintained in accordance with the service schedule, every major
maintenance was performed by a Subaru certified mechanic
The car was not abused
Almost no city driving
I had the car for 51 month when the injectors had to be replaced... out of
warranty
Car is running fine now.

Is my next car going to be a Subaru? If you asked me that question before
the problem, I would have said yes

Now, when I thing about it, there were some issues with the car:

The battery did not last trought the first year, was replaced under
warranty.
Many bulbs burned in the dash.
Windshield washer fluid would leak inside the hatchback door (I repaired it)
Rear wiper blade seized after third year (I repaired it)
Front driver side carped worn trought
Driver seat worn.
Rattle coming from the back
Rear springs too low

I had a friend that had a 1998 Accord and he had less problems, better
milleage, better performance.

My next car... I might go for a truck, I am starting to have a need for it*,
however, the fuel milleage is terrible! and they are very expensive

* transport of some wood, logging, traillering a 40' boat,

If I get a car... probably an Accord, can't go wront with it

Charles Leblanc
2000 Impreza

Charles - sorry to hear about the problems you've had with your Subaru.
There's no way in my mind you would be thought of as a troll because
you are an actual Subaru owner, talking about your experiences with your
car. Many people on this ng are here because of one problem or another,
including me. My WRX has been the most reliable car of the four I've
owned, but it has not been perfect.

$1500 does seem awfully high to replace 4 injectors. I've never worked
on your generation Impreza, did they have to lift the engine to get at
them? In my generation Impreza it's quite a reach to get to the spark
plugs. I never did see my injectors, but I wasn't looking that hard for
them either.

You'll definitely need a different vehicle to trailer a 40' boat. I
drove 3000 miles with a 2000lb trailer (might have been overloaded, I
never weighed it) in my WRX. That's about its limit. I could maintain
highway speeds just fine, but I only averaged 14mpg. A Subaru is great
for towing logs out of the woods, but not so great taking home a load
of plywood from Home Depot.

If I could have a 40' boat, I might just be willing to give up my WRX
for a truck. Would still be a hard choice though.

- Byron

 

[Rick Courtright]

Why would you give it a "3" in reliability. I still see alot of early 80's

Anything from "Dr. Rastis" should be considered emanations from the
southbound end of a northbound horse. Please don't feed this troll!

Rick

 

[Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik]

80's

Anything from "Dr. Rastis" should be considered emanations from the
southbound end of a northbound horse. Please don't feed this troll!

Rick

Your entitled to your opinion there Rick, but then again so am I.
Most Subaru's are not worth scrap metal in 5 years, they are a throwaway,
right up there with the korean garbage.
Subaru gives Japan a black eye....built cheap, to be cheap and stay cheap
for cheap people.
They ONLY reason they sell here in California is to people that can't afford
a GOOD car, so they buy Subaru (and Kia,Hyundai and the fabulous Daewoo).

 

[Gilles Gour]

Your entitled to your opinion there Rick, but then again so am I.
Most Subaru's are not worth scrap metal in 5 years, they are a throwaway,
right up there with the korean garbage.
Subaru gives Japan a black eye....built cheap, to be cheap and stay cheap
for cheap people.
They ONLY reason they sell here in California is to people that can't afford
a GOOD car, so they buy Subaru (and Kia,Hyundai and the fabulous Daewoo).

I think you are right about Subaru reliability Dr.
So I would like to report a miracle and have it registered so it might
be used in due time to document the fact that I'm probably a saint and
deserving to be remembered as such after my death.
I'm the happy owner of a 96 (made in sept 95) Legacy Brighton entering
its 10th salted canadian winter (140,000 miles). No rust showing yet.
Never had any issue with it except the usual wear items (cam belt, water
pump, front half-shafts...) It's always outside, starts at -35 C° (-31
F°) etc.
Since this is a cheap car built cheaply, I dont see any reason for its
good showing other than the virtuous life I'm having. Thanks DR. for
making me aware of it.
Take care and keep telling the truth about all those cheap and sinful
foreing cars.
St Gilles

 

[BlueSTi]

About Subaru reliability:

I just spent 1500$ for new injectiors on my 2000 Impreza 2.2L

I might not be a newsgroup troll, but I have a legitimate complain about a
reliability issue.

The car was maintained in accordance with the service schedule, every major
maintenance was performed by a Subaru certified mechanic
The car was not abused
Almost no city driving
I had the car for 51 month when the injectors had to be replaced... out of
warranty
Car is running fine now.

Is my next car going to be a Subaru? If you asked me that question before
the problem, I would have said yes

Now, when I thing about it, there were some issues with the car:

The battery did not last trought the first year, was replaced under
warranty.
Many bulbs burned in the dash.
Windshield washer fluid would leak inside the hatchback door (I repaired it)
Rear wiper blade seized after third year (I repaired it)
Front driver side carped worn trought
Driver seat worn.
Rattle coming from the back
Rear springs too low

I had a friend that had a 1998 Accord and he had less problems, better
milleage, better performance.

My next car... I might go for a truck, I am starting to have a need for it*,
however, the fuel milleage is terrible! and they are very expensive

* transport of some wood, logging, traillering a 40' boat,

If I get a car... probably an Accord, can't go wront with it

Charles Leblanc
2000 Impreza

Not to defend Subaru, but, how many miles have you put on the thing?
Some of the items you describe sound like normal wear and tear. I've
owned both a Civic and Accord. And both were great cars. But, they
were not any better than any Subaru I owned. The Honda's were a lot
cheaper but not particularly better and the lacked AWD.
BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"