Outback? Escape or Liberty?

[Bill Brauker]

I need some advice.



My wife and I are in our early 50s. We live in Colorado and do a lot of snowshoeing and mountain hiking, (Check out the report of our first 14er we climbed here. http://brauker.com/mtsherman.htm ) We need to get a four wheel drive vehicle to get us into the mountains better than our Volkswagen Jetta can do.



We don't want a great big SUV, so we have been considering used Subaru Outbacks or Forresters, (Seems like every other person in Colorado has one.) Ford Escapes and Jeep Libertys and perhaps, Grand Cherokees.



We also could lease a new 2004 Jeep Liberty for approximately $1300 down and $249 a month. We would be driving the vehicle less than 10,000 miles a year.



We are concerned about the roll over factor with the Escape, Cherokee and Liberty.



Are any of the Subarus made in the US?



Any advice on the reliability, safety factors, etc. on the vehicles mentioned above, would be appreciated.



Cheers,



Bill Brauker

http://mountainhiking.org

 

[Todd H.]

I need some advice.

We don’t want a great big SUV, so we have been considering used Subaru
Outbacks or Forresters, (Seems like every other person in
:State>lace>Colorado has one.) Ford Escapes and Jeep Libertys and perhaps,
Grand Cherokees.

Are any of the Subarus made in the :country-region>lace>US? 

Yes. The Legacy/Outback platform is made in Indiana. The
Impreza/Forester platform is imported.

Any advice on the reliability, safety factors, etc. on the vehicles
mentioned above, would be appreciated.

I looked at similar models and the test drive made all the difference.
Ford Escape was very very peppy, but it's finish was just cheap and
flimsy, and handling more akin to a truck than the lower slung
Outback. Jeep's reliability record is pretty dismal if you consult
Consumer Reports reliability surveys, so I didn't consider them.

Best Regards,

 

[Jim Stewart]

I need some advice.



My wife and I are in our early 50s. We live in Colorado and do a lot of
snowshoeing and mountain hiking, (Check out the report of our first 14er
we climbed here. http://brauker.com/mtsherman.htm ) We need to get a
four wheel drive vehicle to get us into the mountains better than our
Volkswagen Jetta can do.

Do you want a car you can keep til you're 60? if so, get the
Subaru. Keep up with the oil changes, timing belt stuff and
keep it garaged and you'll still be driving it happily 10
years from now. Subarus get better with age and are hardly
broken in at 50k miles.

I don't think you'll make it that long with the others.

I'm early 50's too and I'd rather set aside money for
retirement than buy another car in 5 years.

 

[TG]

While Subaru is not the most reliable vehicle it is very close....the Jeep IS the most unreliable...tied with Volkswagen here in the US TG

I need some advice.



My wife and I are in our early 50s. We live in Colorado and do a lot of snowshoeing and mountain hiking, (Check out the report of our first 14er we climbed here. http://brauker.com/mtsherman.htm ) We need to get a four wheel drive vehicle to get us into the mountains better than our Volkswagen Jetta can do.



We don't want a great big SUV, so we have been considering used Subaru Outbacks or Forresters, (Seems like every other person in Colorado has one.) Ford Escapes and Jeep Libertys and perhaps, Grand Cherokees.



We also could lease a new 2004 Jeep Liberty for approximately $1300 down and $249 a month. We would be driving the vehicle less than 10,000 miles a year.



We are concerned about the roll over factor with the Escape, Cherokee and Liberty.



Are any of the Subarus made in the US?



Any advice on the reliability, safety factors, etc. on the vehicles mentioned above, would be appreciated.



Cheers,



Bill Brauker

http://mountainhiking.org

 

[Spyros]

Last year I rented a Ford Escape and travelled about 500 miles. I
found it very unstable (like a truck) on the highway during bad
weather. I bought an Outback and I could not be happier. By the way,
my 2003 Outback is made in the US (Indiana, I think).

 

[sjmdesigns]

My '01 Outback is grest. For 3 years it has been very reliable. The
wife has a '01 Forester and hers has been just as reliable. We are very
pleased with our choice.

SJM

 

[Abe]

Last year I rented a Ford Escape and travelled about 500 miles. I
found it very unstable (like a truck) on the highway during bad
weather. I bought an Outback and I could not be happier. By the way,
my 2003 Outback is made in the US (Indiana, I think).

But doesn't common sense say that when you're comparing vehicles the
smaller versions are usually going to handle more like cars and the
larger ones more like trucks? I would expect an Outback to handle
better than an Escape, but maybe I need to extra space the Escape
provides?

I'm struggling with a new car purchase. I'd like to go with a Sub but
I'd also like to get 3 people in the back seat for a cross town trip
every once in awhile. Doesn't seem possible in a Sub but already know
it works in a CR-V or Highlander. But I'm not claiming that's a fair
comparison - they're different kinds of vehicles.

** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to
** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.

 

[Todd H.]

But doesn't common sense say that when you're comparing vehicles the
smaller versions are usually going to handle more like cars and the
larger ones more like trucks? I would expect an Outback to handle
better than an Escape, but maybe I need to extra space the Escape
provides?

Look at the usable cargo volume numbers...the Escape isn't that much
bigger actually. I remember looking at this when I was shopping.
The lower height of the OBW is offset by it's longer cargo area if
memory serves.

You're right though, they are different vehicles.

I'm struggling with a new car purchase. I'd like to go with a Sub but
I'd also like to get 3 people in the back seat for a cross town trip
every once in awhile. Doesn't seem possible in a Sub but already know
it works in a CR-V or Highlander.

The CR-V (on the Civic chassis) I believe is narrower than Legacy
platform vehicles. I take 3 in my Outback not infrequently, and
they're not that tight. Bring a friend to the showroom and hop in the
back seat with a sales rep.

 

[Pete D]

Look at the usable cargo volume numbers...the Escape isn't that much
bigger actually. I remember looking at this when I was shopping.
The lower height of the OBW is offset by it's longer cargo area if
memory serves.

You're right though, they are different vehicles.


The CR-V (on the Civic chassis) I believe is narrower than Legacy
platform vehicles. I take 3 in my Outback not infrequently, and
they're not that tight. Bring a friend to the showroom and hop in the
back seat with a sales rep.

Get rid of your fat friends. Only let them eat at Subway.

 

[Abe]

Look at the usable cargo volume numbers...the Escape isn't that much
bigger actually. I remember looking at this when I was shopping.
The lower height of the OBW is offset by it's longer cargo area if
memory serves.

You're right though, they are different vehicles.


The CR-V (on the Civic chassis) I believe is narrower than Legacy
platform vehicles. I take 3 in my Outback not infrequently, and
they're not that tight. Bring a friend to the showroom and hop in the
back seat with a sales rep.

We were shopping for a Forester. Can't get three people across the
rear seat. No problem with the CR-V. Maybe the Outback is wider?
Cargo space isn't as much an issue and seating 5 a few times a year.

** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to
** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.

 

[Todd H.]

We were shopping for a Forester. Can't get three people across the
rear seat. No problem with the CR-V. Maybe the Outback is wider?

Hrmm. just looked up the specs... looks like we're talking about an
inch or so.

Hip room on an 03 Outback rear is 51.9"
Hip room on an 03 Forester rear is 51.6"
Hip room on an 03 CR-V rear is 53.5"

Best Regards,

 

[Abe]

Hrmm. just looked up the specs... looks like we're talking about an
inch or so.

Hip room on an 03 Outback rear is 51.9"
Hip room on an 03 Forester rear is 51.6"
Hip room on an 03 CR-V rear is 53.5"

Forester vs CR-V - rear seat comparison - the Forester is:

* 5+ inches less leg room

* 3 inches less shoulder room

* Cargo volume is only 1.5 cu. ft. less but passenger volume is 12 cu.
ft. less

So if the CR-V is tight the Forester is very tight.

(From the Subaru site)

I still want to got to the dealer and give it another shot.

** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to
** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.

 

[nItpIk]

If you're going to haul more than two people, don't get the Subaru. I'm about 6' tall and can't get my feet to fit in the front passenger side of our '03 OBW, so I can't ride shotgun for any length of time. And sitting in the back seat with someone of any size in the front is impossible. This is our third Suby, the first two were Legacys .. which we probably should have bought this time. I love Suby's for the most part, but they are changing things to go for more stylish appeal for the masses rather than keeping functionality as their prime design motive. But compared to the other vehicles you mentioned, the Suby is the clear winner. Our OBW holds two bikes and tons of camping gear if we need it to, or two dogs in portable kennels. It has a very strong engine, goes up to the tunnel in 5th gear right until the last pitch. Cruising at 80 or 90 mph feels like 55. Handles great, except the stock tires suck on slick snow. I would recommend the Legacy over the OBW if either of you are very tall. Otherwise ... great Colorado vehicle. We get about 28 mpg overall. It accelerates like a bat out of Pueblo and handles great in traffic.
I need some advice.



My wife and I are in our early 50s. We live in Colorado and do a lot of snowshoeing and mountain hiking, (Check out the report of our first 14er we climbed here. http://brauker.com/mtsherman.htm ) We need to get a four wheel drive vehicle to get us into the mountains better than our Volkswagen Jetta can do.



We don't want a great big SUV, so we have been considering used Subaru Outbacks or Forresters, (Seems like every other person in Colorado has one.) Ford Escapes and Jeep Libertys and perhaps, Grand Cherokees.



We also could lease a new 2004 Jeep Liberty for approximately $1300 down and $249 a month. We would be driving the vehicle less than 10,000 miles a year.



We are concerned about the roll over factor with the Escape, Cherokee and Liberty.



Are any of the Subarus made in the US?



Any advice on the reliability, safety factors, etc. on the vehicles mentioned above, would be appreciated.



Cheers,



Bill Brauker

http://mountainhiking.org

 

[Stu Hedith]

I'm 6'5" and I had a '98 legacy GT. Leg room certainly wasn't a
problem. I test drove a few '02 models OB and legacy and I had
sufficient leg room in both.

Stu

 

[ct]

My wife and I are in our early 50s. We live in Colorado and do a lot of
snowshoeing

and mountain hiking, (Check out the report of our first 14er we climbed here.
http://brauker.com/mtsherman.htm ) We need to get a four wheel drive vehicle to get us
into the mountains better than our Volkswagen Jetta can do.

Know the feeling...traded in my '95 GTI for a '98 OBW. It's been great so
far. 116k miles, going strong. I thought about the Escape too...but for
99% of my driving (over Berthoud Pass in the winter, etc.) the OB is
perfect. It handles really well for 8.3" of clearance. There's a reason
you see a lot of Subes around CO.

Nice 14er pics.

C

 

[username]

Hrmm. just looked up the specs... looks like we're talking about an
inch or so.

Hip room on an 03 Outback rear is 51.9"
Hip room on an 03 Forester rear is 51.6"
Hip room on an 03 CR-V rear is 53.5"

Best Regards,

if you can, i VERY STRONGLY suggest you wait until next spring when
the newly designed Subaru Outback is released. it has been vastly
improved in every catagory. today it won Car of the Year in japan
www.jcoty.org/ out of 152 models from all over the world (i.e., not
just japanese cars)

here are some information links for you

http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/outback/index.html

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=372253

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365765&perpage=50&pagenumber=24

 

[username]

Hrmm. just looked up the specs... looks like we're talking about an
inch or so.

Hip room on an 03 Outback rear is 51.9"
Hip room on an 03 Forester rear is 51.6"
Hip room on an 03 CR-V rear is 53.5"

Best Regards,

the Ouback did just get wider too with the forthcoming (to the US)
model

new Outback is 40 mm longer, producing 20 mm more cabin length than
the previous model, while increasing width by 45 mm

 

[Mike Deskevich]

I need some advice.

My wife and I are in our early 50s. We live in Colorado and do a lot of
snowshoeing and mountain hiking, (Check out the report of our first 14er
we climbed here. http://brauker.com/mtsherman.htm ) We need to get a
four wheel drive vehicle to get us into the mountains better than our
Volkswagen Jetta can do.

bill, i live in colorado too, and am a big fan of hiking 14ers (except
i get altitude sickness and have wandered off the trail before - kinda
fun). anyway, i have a '99 legacy gt sedan. I've not been terribly
impressed with it, you can probably search for my posts of numerous
complaints, so i won't go into that right now. I will say that i've
not had a better vehicle for snowy/icy roads than my subaru, it's
better than any truck i've driven on snow. However it it absolutely
terrible in the approach to 14ers. They always show the subarus doing
rally type racing and such, but in reality these cars aren't made to
go off road. As a data point, i can't get my subaru up the approach
to greys and torreys without severe scraping on rocks (plust you don't
have low range and it's really hard on the clutch going that slowly up
steep stuff). I just bought an old 4runner to be my mountain vehicle,
and am saving my subaru for on-road use only.

We don't want a great big SUV, so we have been considering used Subaru
Outbacks or Forresters, (Seems like every other person in Colorado has
one.) Ford Escapes and Jeep Libertys and perhaps, Grand Cherokees.

i'm not a terrible fan of the jeep quality, but from what i've read
the liberty is pretty good off road.

We are concerned about the roll over factor with the Escape, Cherokee
and Liberty.

as long as your careful you should have no problems. i've driven suvs
and truck all my life. my subaru was the first car i owned. just
take it slower than you would in a car and you should be fine.

Are any of the Subarus made in the US?

yes. i believe the legacy is.

Any advice on the reliability, safety factors, etc. on the vehicles
mentioned above, would be appreciated.

i would stay away from ford, i'm not a big fan of them.
daimler-chrysler is probably ok, but lately they've seemed to be
slipping in the quality control. i'm not very happy with my subaru,
but i may just have a lemon, everyone else seems to like their cars.

have you considered toyota? right now the 4runner has turned into a
soccor mom grocery getter, but it's still a very good capable off
road/winter vehicle. the new ones are kinda pricy, but you could pick
up a used 1st ('84-'89) or 2nd ('90-'95) generation 4runner relatively
cheap. the 4runners are pretty much bullet proof, don't be scared
about high milage. my '89 4runner has 226K miles and starts and runs
better than my subaru with 46K. while i'm not a big fan of the rav4
and highlander, they may be more in your size and price range, and are
probably made to the same quality standards as the other toyotas i've
owned.

mike

 

[H. Whelply]

"Bill Brauker" <(e-mail address removed)> wrote in message

...while i'm not a big fan of the rav4
and highlander, they may be more in your size and price range, and are
probably made to the same quality standards as the other toyotas i've
owned.

Quality, yes. But there would be the not-really-for-serious-offroading
problem you mentioned earlier, with no "granny gear." The Highlander is just
a tall Camry---I wouldn't go offroad in a Camry. RAV4 is on a Corolla
chassis, maybe? Not sure. Offroad in a Corolla doesn't sound good either.