OT Tire patch vs plug

[pheasant]

Daughter had flat tire (radial) took it to repair shop. Asked how long
to plug it? The gent haughtily replied "No one plugs tires anymore,
it's unsafe. Patching is all that's done." OK................

Went to the hardware store next door, bought a plug kit, 99 cents, used
the stations free air and did it myself, home in 15 minutes.

Worked my way through college (30 years ago) in a service station,
radials had been around for about 10 years, but plugging was all we ever
did. What's changed? Teach an old dog a new trick.

BTW; Kid's car stays pretty well in town, no long highway trips. Maybe
65 mph for 10-15 minutes max.

Thanks
Mark

 

[Sparky Polastri]

What changed is you ran across a lying asshat willing to say anything to get
more money out of you.

(running 30k on a plugged tire with no problems)

Unless you are running some sort of high-performace tires the guy is wrong.

 

[Guest]

What did a "patch" entail? Could it have been the same thing?

 

[y_p_w]

Daughter had flat tire (radial) took it to repair shop. Asked how long
to plug it? The gent haughtily replied "No one plugs tires anymore,
it's unsafe. Patching is all that's done." OK................

Went to the hardware store next door, bought a plug kit, 99 cents, used
the stations free air and did it myself, home in 15 minutes.

Worked my way through college (30 years ago) in a service station,
radials had been around for about 10 years, but plugging was all we ever
did. What's changed? Teach an old dog a new trick.

BTW; Kid's car stays pretty well in town, no long highway trips. Maybe
65 mph for 10-15 minutes max.

A plug alone doesn't meet the Rubber Manufacturer's of America
guidelines for a proper repair. The interior is supposed to be
inspected to see if the hole is beyond repair or if the sidewall is
damaged. There might also be loose pieces inside the tire. They're
also subject to legal liability if a plug fails.

<http://www.rma.org/tire_safety/tire...ire_safety_brochure/tire_care_and_safety.cfm>

"Plugs vs. Patches

A PLUG BY ITSELF IS AN UNACCEPTABLE REPAIR. The repair material
used-for example, a "combination patch and plug" repair -must seal
the inner liner and fill the injury to be considered a permanent
repair. Never use a tube in a tubeless tire as a substitute for a
proper repair.

Individual tire manufacturers may differ on whether the speed
category applies to speed-rated tires that have been repaired.
Consult the tire manufacturer for recommendations."

** **

Rema sells plugs, and states that they should be used only with a
patch. I think it's worth $25. Most places will also drill out
the hole such that the plug fills the "injury" snugly and to remove
sharp steel fragments. Many plugs get damaged when forced past
shredded steel.

 

[y_p_w]

What changed is you ran across a lying asshat willing to say anything
to get more money out of you.

I wouldn't trust a tire shop that would tell me that a plug-only is a
viable permanent repair. A tire that's gone flat may also need to be
rebalanced. I called a tire shop, and they verified that they would
only do a repair with a combi plug/patch and would "ream the hole".

(running 30k on a plugged tire with no problems)

Unless you are running some sort of high-performace tires the guy
is wrong.

No manufacturer is going to warranty a tire that has been repaired
only with a plug. A proper repair would include having the hole
drilled out, a correctly sized plug, and a patch to seal the air
liner. Some manufacturers will maintain the speed rating on a
plug and patched tire. Full tire repair kits come with several
sizes of carbide cutters, corresponding several sizes of plugs,
patches, and/or combi plug-patches.

A lot of tire dealers (Big-O comes to mind) will repair a tire bought
there for free as an incentive to buy there.

<http://www.tireindustry.org/features/Tire_Condition_Manual.asp>

"The final section is dedicated to Repair. The first part outlines
the correct puncture repair procedures and guidelines recently
published by the Rubber Manufacturers Association (RMA). Since there
are a lot of opinions on what constitutes a "proper" repair, the
new RMA chart and information contained in this section should dispel
all of the myths and clearly define the recommended practices for
repairing passenger and light truck tires. The second part of this
section focuses on examples of "improper repairs." For those on the
edge of their seat wondering how an "improper" repair is defined,
it's safe to say that on-the-wheel plug and patch-only repairs are
improper."

 

[Mike]

what changed was more people suing when the plugs failed (which they still
very rarely do, but with much greater frequency still than patches -- and
much more dramatically so, I believe). It's a litigious thing.

 

[pheasant]

Daughter had flat tire (radial) took it to repair shop. Asked how long to
plug it? The gent haughtily replied "No one plugs tires anymore, it's
unsafe. Patching is all that's done." OK................

Hey All

Thanks for the replies. Guess it's very similar to medicine these days;
Cover Your A##
Now that I've heard from ya'll going back to the hardware store to buy a
couple more plugging kits. Ahh........ some of the old things are still
fun to do.
Mark

 

[CompUser]

Worked my way through college (30 years ago) in a service station,
radials had been around for about 10 years, but plugging was all we ever
did. What's changed? Teach an old dog a new trick.

Were steel belts as common thirty years ago?

Along with all the institutional commentary, the
street word is the ragged edges of steel belt can
saw plugs into pieces...hence the best practice,
not patch or plug, but patch AND plug.

 

[y_p_w]

Were steel belts as common thirty years ago?

Along with all the institutional commentary, the
street word is the ragged edges of steel belt can
saw plugs into pieces...hence the best practice,
not patch or plug, but patch AND plug.

And the "injury" should be reamed out with a cutting bit
to smooth out the ragged edges, and to create an ideal
hole for the plug. Some of the "string" type plug kits
even manage to damage the tire even further.

I really don't see what the big deal is about spending
$25 on a proper repair. I don't understand why the OP
thinks it's principled to take that risk, however small.

 

[pheasant]

Yes.

I really don't see what the big deal is about spending
$25 on a proper repair. I don't understand why the OP
thinks it's principled to take that risk, however small.

It's a matter of diagnosis.
When I've got a 3/4" #8 machine screw that barely is long enough to reach
the inner liner I know full well the hole it creates is miniscule, chances
of damaging the belts just as small. When I also know the tire will only be
run for around town errands, not extended periods of high speed driving,
plus being one of Cooper's better tires anyway, I'm not concerned about
catastrophic failure.
Like I'd stated originally I plugged many tires in college, never saw one
come back. Back tehn you had regular customers who bought gas, and service,
so you'd see them once a week or every other week. They'd let you know if
something failed; in very short order too.
Also being an old fart, it galls me to pay even 10 bucks for something worth
maybe 50 cents. 25 buck forget it! I'd just buy a new skin and junk it for
that price! Soooo......... as long as I've got the experience, and know
it's just a symptom of our greedy society more than any technical advance,
I'll keep plugging away.

 

[CompUser]

maybe 50 cents. 25 buck forget it! I'd just buy a new skin and junk it for
that price! Soooo......... as long as I've got the experience, and know
it's just a symptom of our greedy society more than any technical advance,
I'll keep plugging away.

I'm in the OF category too, for an increasing
percentage of the population...but hey, it beats
the alternative ;-)

AFA cost, I had mine plugged, patched and
rebalanced for free (along with a free alignment
check that included some toe adjustment, too
boot) at a Big Chief tire store...they did it for
me as a first time walk in, on the basis that
they hoped I'd come back eventually for tires.

I'm up for four new ones in the next few
weeks...one guess where I'll head.

 

[y_p_w]

It's a matter of diagnosis.

Perhaps you've assessed your situation and come to that conclusion.
However - not everyone will have the same situation and shouldn't
assume that a plug-only would be a cheap and acceptable permanent
repair.

I would still have the hole reamed out for a perfect plug fit and
take take out any steel fragments. Having a string-type plug
jammed into a hole is supposed to put uneven stress on the area.
And forcing in a plug that isn't an ideal fit can damage the
area even further.

And how the heck do you get the plug in there without damaging the
liner? The string type kits I've seen include a needle that forces
the plug into the hole and through the liner.

It's not as if the tire manufacturers are doing this to rip off
the consumer. Even the tire companies that don't make repair
materials or don't have their own stores recommend the RMA
repair procedures.

<http://www.coopertire.com/us/en/safety/tireSafetyInstructions.asp#item12>

 

[pheasant]

And how the heck do you get the plug in there without damaging the
liner? The string type kits I've seen include a needle that forces
the plug into the hole and through the liner.

The liner's already perforated. The needle just goes in through the same
hole. You force the plug up into the liner, give the needle a quick turn,
and remove it. The liner seals up against itself remarkebly well being
elastic. (ever pull a nail out of a half flat tire after inflating it to
find the leak?) you'd be amazed how well the liner seals itself even when
perforated, and the force the air escapes with when you pull out the
offending object.
The glue simply assures the hole is sealed. Light it to let the rubber melt
a bit, then cut 'er off. 2 minutes or less and done.

When we had to pull one to patch it, you scuff the liner with a air tool or
scraper so you have a rough surface for the patch, so you are still messing
with it.

We don't have have Big Chief, heck I'd take up a deal like that if we did!

Gotta remember; half the S##T we do is to CYA, so course the manufacterers
ain't gonna give something that may fail a percent or two more than another
method a recommendation. How do you think the drug companies sell their
wares; "mine has only 14% incidence of your dick dropping off, where the
competitor's has 14.5% so mines statistically superior." Doo-Dah, Doo-Dah.

Make your own choice, for me; I'll keep a pluggin'.

 

[y_p_w]

Make your own choice, for me; I'll keep a pluggin'.

I think the term is "false economy". I wouldn't risk the safety
of myself or anyone close to me over the small cost of getting
the repair performed correctly.

 

[Blair Baucom]

In my personal experience on steel belted tires, back when they did plug
them, my dealer plugged my tire. After a week the steel belts had cut
through the plug, so they removed the tire and patched it. This was back in
1986. I have plugged tires with the kits from the discount stores and they
held until I could get the tire fixed correctly.

Blair

 

[Edward Hayes]

In my state Florida it is illegal to plug a tire regardless of where
the hole is. I felt pretty confident in the old plugs which were
shaped like a mushroom as they in effect sealed from the inside. The
rubber band or single strand plugs, are just plain dangerous.