More fluid for AT tranny than MT?

[Bradley Walker]

After my mom's `95 legacy dropped 10+ qts of fluid in the driveway, I got to
thinking. Does the automatic transmission vehicles hold more fluid than the
manual transmissions??

The reason I ask is that I'm going to drain my fluids and put in the "Uncle
Scotty Cocktail Mix". yet the total amount of fluids is 4 quarts, unlike
the 12 quarts for my mom's vehicle. Am I missing something here or do the
sizes of the transmissions make that much difference??

 

[AS]

Yes, you are failing to consider that the torque converter and the
hydraulic system within the transmission hold lots of fluid. Normally
when you change the fluid in an A/T you only get what is in the oil pan.

If you go to autozone.com, in the repair guides, specifications, you
will see that they show much less fluid needed to replace the fluid in
an A/T than the actual capacity specified by the manuals.

Glad your mom's car is running again.

 

[CompUser]

The reason I ask is that I'm going to drain my fluids and put in the "Uncle
Scotty Cocktail Mix". yet the total amount of fluids is 4 quarts, unlike
the 12 quarts for my mom's vehicle. Am I missing something here or do the
sizes of the transmissions make that much difference??

Yes, you're missing the fact that Scotty's
cocktail is for the MANUAL tranny.

Use only the OEM prescribed ATF for the
automatic.

 

[Rick Courtright]

thinking. Does the automatic transmission vehicles hold more fluid > than the manual transmissions??

Hi,

Yes, as others noted, ATs hold a lot more due to the torque converter.
Be careful when filling to follow the directions for checking the levels
carefully--w/ many ATs it's easy to over or underfill the trans if the
level's not checked properly.

On YOUR gearbox, what's this Uncle Scotty's Cocktail Mix? At first
blush, it sounds to me like something some shade tree guy w/ a six pack
came up with in a half hour that's "better" than anything the guys who
develop fluids for a living can come up with? I'd refill an MT w/ the
recommended weight fluid, either dino or synthetic, and forget about
mixing "cocktails."

Rick

 

[Bradley Walker]

I think I forgot to mention that my car is a manual transmission, although
I've mentioned that in earlier posts.

 

[Bradley Walker]

The "Uncle Scotty Cocktail Mix" is actually a mix of different transmission
fluids that many subaru owners have had success with in manual transmission
cars to solve or provent issues with the synchro gears. Check out this
link:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920674

 

[AS]

I am missing nothing. I explained why auto transmissions use more oil,
but just so you feel good, I am a moron,

 

[Rick Courtright]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920674

Hi,

Actually, I DID check before my initial reply. Let me repeat, "it sounds
to me like something some shade tree guy w/ a six pack came up with in a
half hour that's 'better' than anything the guys who develop fluids for
a living can come up with."

How do you KNOW it cures synchro problems? How do you KNOW it prevents
synchro problems? Have these guys done the head to head testing the
engineers and chemists have spent a kazillion man hours, miles and
dollars doing?

You could go out there this afternoon, drain your gearbox, refill it w/
straight 30 wt motor oil (I'm NOT recommending anyone do this!) For a
while it MIGHT feel "better" (there HAVE been gearboxes that used
regular motor oil and some of them DO feel slick.) You can post all
kinds of glowing reviews based on your first week's "fantastic
improvements"--the Internet certainly allows the dissemination of
misinformation faster than anything we've come up with before! However,
I doubt you'll be back in 250k miles claiming "30 wt is better than the
75W-90 the factory recommends."

But that's just opinion and experience talking. What do I know?

Rick

 

[Bonehenge]

The "Uncle Scotty Cocktail Mix" is actually a mix of different transmission
fluids that many subaru owners have had success with in manual transmission
cars to solve or provent issues with the synchro gears.

Do you actually OWN a car, or do you simply drive your mother's? <G>

Anyone who would put a "cocktail" created from an Internet recipe into
a perfectly good car, ignoring the manufacturer's recommendations for
the proper fluid, is a moron.

Do you really think if this "cocktail" was worth a salt,
a.) Someone would sell a commercial version
b.) The manufacturers would use it

Seriously... <G>

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Bradley Walker wrote:




Hi,

Actually, I DID check before my initial reply. Let me repeat, "it sounds
to me like something some shade tree guy w/ a six pack came up with in a
half hour that's 'better' than anything the guys who develop fluids for
a living can come up with."

How do you KNOW it cures synchro problems? How do you KNOW it prevents
synchro problems? Have these guys done the head to head testing the
engineers and chemists have spent a kazillion man hours, miles and
dollars doing?

You could go out there this afternoon, drain your gearbox, refill it w/
straight 30 wt motor oil (I'm NOT recommending anyone do this!) For a
while it MIGHT feel "better" (there HAVE been gearboxes that used
regular motor oil and some of them DO feel slick.) You can post all
kinds of glowing reviews based on your first week's "fantastic
improvements"--the Internet certainly allows the dissemination of
misinformation faster than anything we've come up with before! However,
I doubt you'll be back in 250k miles claiming "30 wt is better than the
75W-90 the factory recommends."

But that's just opinion and experience talking. What do I know?

Rick

I doubt that scotty's mix is all that bad. I also doubt it's better than
Redline 75-90NS (especially after a few hundred miles of 'wearing
in/cleaning).

And are we talking about older trannies that have a lot of wear? might
need a change anyway? have moisture built up in them? Or newer ones? or
trannies with actual problems but not torn down/inspected yet? what if a
different or heavier oil is just masking a real problem?

Carl

 

[Dmitriy]

Uncle Scotty knows his stuff. Many people used the cocktail for years
with nothing but good results. I personally have run it for about 10k
miles so far, and my trans definitely feels better than what it did
with the original fluid... keep in mind that I beat the crap of my
transmission auto crossing. I searched long and hard for *anything*
negative about this cocktail, but didn't find a single substantiated
negative review... except ones like yours from people who never
actually tried it.

Your 30wt analogy is invalid. Motor oil is far from transmission fluid.
Uncle Scotty's cocktail IS transmission fluid, it is different
transmission fluids mixed together, which allows you to gain the
benefits of all of them... a healthy balance if you will.

 

[Dmitriy]

Do you actually OWN a car, or do you simply drive your mother's? <G>

Anyone who would put a "cocktail" created from an Internet recipe into
a perfectly good car, ignoring the manufacturer's recommendations for
the proper fluid, is a moron.

Do you really think if this "cocktail" was worth a salt,
a.) Someone would sell a commercial version
b.) The manufacturers would use it

Seriously... <G>

a) I've seen a couple places sell all the required ingredients in a
bundle.
b) OEMs don't use it because it contains products from 3 completely
different companies, making it more troublesome and expensive for them
to setup contracts, supply relations...etc. Not to mention that it's
more expensive.

Subaru is typically a good OEM, and much of their factory stuff offers
awesome performance. HOWEVER, there are some things on Subaru's out of
the factory that are just not that great... For example, would you buy
the factory RE92's for your Subaru when you need new tires :-D?

 

[Rick Courtright]

b) OEMs don't use it because it contains products from 3 completely
different companies, making it more troublesome and expensive for them
to setup contracts, supply relations...etc. Not to mention that it's
more expensive.

Hi,

Marketing dept guys who are religious get up every morning and thank
their respective deities for people who think like that... all the
factory and/or oil company chemists have to do is go buy a few bottles
of "XYZ SuperLube" and play with it a while to get "close enough" to
make their own. And probably still be on time for lunch.

Read Bonehenge's reply again...

Rick

 

[Jim Stewart]

The "Uncle Scotty Cocktail Mix" is actually a mix of different transmission
fluids that many subaru owners have had success with in manual transmission
cars to solve or provent issues with the synchro gears. Check out this
link:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920674

What, no Marvel Mystery Oil? Any country boy
knows ya can't have special sauce without Marvel
Mystery Oil

 

[Rick Courtright]

with nothing but good results. I personally have run it for about 10k
miles so far, and my trans definitely feels better than what it did
with the original fluid... keep in mind that I beat the crap of my
transmission auto crossing. I searched long and hard for *anything*
negative about this cocktail, but didn't find a single substantiated
negative review... except ones like yours from people who never
actually tried it.

Hi,

Please pardon me if I don't immediately jump on the bandwagon after
reading your "universe of one" test results. However, I AM glad you
haven't dropped the gearbox right out of your car while you "beat the
crap out of it." I'm certain this mystery man "Uncle Scotty" and his
"cocktail" are the saving grace there. Too bad it can't be proven from
your results.

Your 30wt analogy is invalid. Motor oil is far from transmission fluid.

Get back to me when you understand the point I was making.

Rick

 

[Bradley Walker]

Sure do, it's an `01 OBW Ltd Ed. We are a Subaru family for the most part
with everyone getting one at some point in their life. I just tend to be
the most knowledgeable about them family wise and stick to asking all the
questions.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Dmitriy wrote:




Hi,

Please pardon me if I don't immediately jump on the bandwagon after
reading your "universe of one" test results. However, I AM glad you
haven't dropped the gearbox right out of your car while you "beat the
crap out of it." I'm certain this mystery man "Uncle Scotty" and his
"cocktail" are the saving grace there. Too bad it can't be proven from
your results.




Get back to me when you understand the point I was making.

Rick

In all fairness, 'Uncle Scotty' is a very knowledgable, and evidently
experienced, 'character' who posts regularly at NASIOC. While he
frequently comes off as a curmudgeon, I suspect his 'cocktail' is not
particularly 'bad'. Of course, your sensible to promote caution - since
ther is no testing as to whether one component's additives may be
antagonistic to additives in the other componenent's, though it's hard
to see how the mix could be horrible. personally, I would only try it
AFTER trying Redline or Royal Purple or other quality name brands for
hundreds - if not several thousand - miles first. A lot of folks with
the pre-06 trannies have reported good results with Redline 75-90NS
after a few thousand miles.

whatever

Carl

 

[Dmitriy]

Hi,

Please pardon me if I don't immediately jump on the bandwagon after
reading your "universe of one" test results. However, I AM glad you
haven't dropped the gearbox right out of your car while you "beat the
crap out of it." I'm certain this mystery man "Uncle Scotty" and his
"cocktail" are the saving grace there. Too bad it can't be proven from
your results.

Reading comprehension > you.

The point I was making is NOT that the cocktail makes your transmission
indestructible. It was simply to state that it makes your transmission
'feel' better while still offering good protection (the autocrossing
experience mentioned to say that I'm not so gentle on the trans that it
would be fine with orange juice in it).

Like I said... I base my opinion of the cocktail not only on my own
results, but also on all the positive results other people in the
Subaru community have reported, and the complete lack of negative
results. Like Bradley said... Uncle Scotty is very knowledgeble, but he
is a bit of an a-hole, so there are many people out there (me included)
who would love to prove that his cocktail is bad for the transmission.

I honestly don't want you to jump on my bandwagon, I don't care what
anyone here runs in their transmissions, I'm simply sharing my
experience because it pisses me off when people talk sh*t about things
they haven't tried or even done sufficient research on.

Get back to me when you understand the point I was making.

It is invalid. It's like saying that putting butter into a transmission
is bad... eventhough it will make it 'buttery smooth'... of course it's
bad! That's what makes it a bad analogy. We are talking about
transmission fluids here, not what random crap you can stick into your
where.

At least for Subaru transmissions. Gear oil / transmission is not just
heavy weight motor oil as it also contains extreme pressure and
anti-wear additives not found in regular motor oil.

 

[B A R R Y]

a) I've seen a couple places sell all the required ingredients in a
bundle.

Real high-performance automotive fluid manufacturers (Redline, etc...)
don't buy retail packages of fluids to mix together and resell. <G>

A lubricant developer will usually employ engineers with backgrounds in
subjects like fluid dynamics, chemistry, and metallurgy. Just about any
compound, in any lubricant, is available one way or the other to most
any manufacturer. Every lubricant is a compromise, the key is to find
the best overall. The engineers will then use standard scientific
methods, like dyno running, with tear downs and constant fluid analysis.
and documented performance from actual use (possibly daily driving and
racing) data to prove the concept.

A few guys on a bulletin board, with no formal engineering training, who
think "it seems better!" don't constitute much in the world of test
data. As any racing crew chief will tell you, the most powerful part of
a car is the driver's mind! <G>

While a cocktail may work NOW, manufacturers often change formulas.
Sometimes to make it better, sometimes to provide the same performance
with lesser expensive ingredients or production processes. If suddenly
one of the reformulated products contains a compound which is not
compatible with one of the other products, (remember, reformulations are
not always marked on the package) and the "cocktail" causes a problem,
now what? <G>


I stand by the moron comment.

 

[Rick Courtright]

anyone here runs in their transmissions, I'm simply sharing my
experience because it pisses me off when people talk sh*t about things
they haven't tried or even done sufficient research on.

Hi,

That's all very well and good...

I learned long ago the perils of trying to teach pigs to sing.

Rick