Is this head gasket leak?

[DK]

Just trying to get a feel for what I should do here:

Wife's 2002 Forester has been leaking oil for some time. Curiously
enough, it started leaking immediately after dealer's 60,000 miles
maintanence (but I was sick and out of town so it was then too to
bring it back and claim that the two are related; and maybe they are
not).

The leak is not bad and there is no blue smoke in the exhaust.
Coolant level does not seem to be low and the car is not overheating.

There is now 75,400 miles on a car and dealer today says it is head
gasket that is leaking and that there is oil in the coolant. Naturally,
they want $2000 for a fix.

Question:
- Do the above symptoms look like a head gasket?
- Is it safe to drive the car if it is indeed head gasket leaking? I can
add oil once in a while, it's not a big deal. I haven't seen any signs
of coolant in the oil.

Assuming it is head gasket, would you rather fix and sell the car?
(I don't want to lie, so if I sell, I'll be saying about the leak, which
unquestionably will bring the price down).

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Dima

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Just trying to get a feel for what I should do here:

Wife's 2002 Forester has been leaking oil for some time. Curiously
enough, it started leaking immediately after dealer's 60,000 miles
maintanence (but I was sick and out of town so it was then too to
bring it back and claim that the two are related; and maybe they are
not).

The leak is not bad and there is no blue smoke in the exhaust.
Coolant level does not seem to be low and the car is not overheating.

There is now 75,400 miles on a car and dealer today says it is head
gasket that is leaking and that there is oil in the coolant. Naturally,
they want $2000 for a fix.

Question:
- Do the above symptoms look like a head gasket?
- Is it safe to drive the car if it is indeed head gasket leaking? I can
add oil once in a while, it's not a big deal. I haven't seen any signs
of coolant in the oil.

Assuming it is head gasket, would you rather fix and sell the car?
(I don't want to lie, so if I sell, I'll be saying about the leak, which
unquestionably will bring the price down).

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Dima

'leaking' implies dripping onto the ground or perhaps being blown
around in the engine compartment/blown backwards under the car when
driving.

If you mean 'high oil consumption'/'low oil on dipstick', it must be
going somewhere.

From your post as it stands, I would recommend a different mechanic.
Certainly I would want a second opinion under odd circumstances before
spending $2000.

 

[clare]

Just trying to get a feel for what I should do here:

Wife's 2002 Forester has been leaking oil for some time. Curiously
enough, it started leaking immediately after dealer's 60,000 miles
maintanence (but I was sick and out of town so it was then too to
bring it back and claim that the two are related; and maybe they are
not).

The leak is not bad and there is no blue smoke in the exhaust.
Coolant level does not seem to be low and the car is not overheating.

There is now 75,400 miles on a car and dealer today says it is head
gasket that is leaking and that there is oil in the coolant. Naturally,
they want $2000 for a fix.

Question:
- Do the above symptoms look like a head gasket?
- Is it safe to drive the car if it is indeed head gasket leaking? I can
add oil once in a while, it's not a big deal. I haven't seen any signs
of coolant in the oil.

Assuming it is head gasket, would you rather fix and sell the car?
(I don't want to lie, so if I sell, I'll be saying about the leak, which
unquestionably will bring the price down).

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Dima

Sounds like a possible head gasket, for sure. If it is in good shape
otherwize I'd fix it and drive it.

 

[clare]

'leaking' implies dripping onto the ground or perhaps being blown
around in the engine compartment/blown backwards under the car when
driving.

If you mean 'high oil consumption'/'low oil on dipstick', it must be
going somewhere.

From your post as it stands, I would recommend a different mechanic.
Certainly I would want a second opinion under odd circumstances before
spending $2000.

It is very possible she has both an external and internal oil "leak"
IF there is oil in the coolant she does not need to see another
mechanic for a "second opinion" - she has already gotten mine.
As for the $2000, there may well be a mechanic around who will do it
(properly) for less. Depends where she is, and how many independents
in her area are well aquainted with Soobs. Like the GM adds say, "it's
not your daddy's oldsmobile"

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

It is very possible she has both an external and internal oil "leak"
 IF there is oil in the coolant she does not need to see another
mechanic for a "second opinion" - she has already gotten mine.
As for the $2000, there may well be a mechanic around who will do it
(properly) for less. Depends where she is, and how many independents
in her area are well aquainted with Soobs. Like the GM adds say, "it's
not your daddy's oldsmobile"

I'm not saying it isn't a bad headgasket. Just that the wording of the
post makes the diagnosis questionable. Has Dima seen the oil in the
coolant or coolant/'chocolate mousse' in the oil? Also, did the
dealership use the coolant conditioner if they flushed the coolant at
the 60K service? (I would definitely hold them accountable if it isn't
shown on the receipt.)

 

[DK]

'leaking' implies dripping onto the ground or perhaps being blown
around in the engine compartment/blown backwards under the car when
driving.

If you mean 'high oil consumption'/'low oil on dipstick', it must be
going somewhere.

It is definitely leaking on the floor - that I can see. Eventually it gets
low on a dipstick - that I can see as well. The dealer says they
found oil on the coolant. I dond't yet know about it myself. The coolant
level so far was stable and when I am checking oil, I see no foaming
indicative of coolant in oil.

From your post as it stands, I would recommend a different mechanic.
Certainly I would want a second opinion under odd circumstances before
spending $2000.

I'll do that.

 

[Frank]

Just trying to get a feel for what I should do here:

Wife's 2002 Forester has been leaking oil for some time. Curiously
enough, it started leaking immediately after dealer's 60,000 miles
maintanence (but I was sick and out of town so it was then too to
bring it back and claim that the two are related; and maybe they are
not).

The leak is not bad and there is no blue smoke in the exhaust.
Coolant level does not seem to be low and the car is not overheating.

There is now 75,400 miles on a car and dealer today says it is head
gasket that is leaking and that there is oil in the coolant. Naturally,
they want $2000 for a fix.

Question:
- Do the above symptoms look like a head gasket?
- Is it safe to drive the car if it is indeed head gasket leaking? I can
add oil once in a while, it's not a big deal. I haven't seen any signs
of coolant in the oil.

Assuming it is head gasket, would you rather fix and sell the car?
(I don't want to lie, so if I sell, I'll be saying about the leak, which
unquestionably will bring the price down).

Any thoughts? Thanks!

Dima

My '03's went last month at only 40k mi, starting as a burnt antifreeze
smell and then leak. Repair was nearly $1,400 which hurts but is much
less than book value of the Forester. Dealer said they had only seen a
couple of head gasket problems with '03's but they were over 100k mi.

Last year, same odor and then leak, was said to be bad water pump. I
had heard about this special coolant thing after I had changed
antifreeze at non-Subaru shop but Subaru had done the water pump
replacement and also threw in a timing belt change at cost of belt since
it was off.

Candidly, I've been a big Forester fan and my wife has an '08 but if I
see this problem again on either Forester, I may be looking at other
brand AWD's next time I need a new one.

 

[1 Lucky Texan]

'leaking' implies dripping onto the ground or perhaps being blown
around in the engine compartment/blown backwards under the car when
driving.

If you mean 'high oil consumption'/'low oil on dipstick', it must be
going somewhere.

It is definitely leaking on the floor - that I can see. Eventually it gets
low on a dipstick - that I can see as well. The dealer says they
found oil on the coolant. I dond't yet know about it myself. The coolant
level so far was stable and when I am checking oil, I see no foaming
indicative of coolant in oil.  

From your post as it stands, I would recommend a different mechanic.
Certainly I would want a second opinion under odd circumstances before
spending $2000.

I'll do that.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps they meant you need new valve cover gaskets? Still, that seems
like a lot of money.

There is a 'sniffer' test - similar I guess to the tailpipe emissions
tester - that can be used to detect exhaust gasses in the coolant.

Also, do locate your 60K service receipt - or get a copy from your
dealer's service desk, and see if the 'coolant conditioner' was used
in your car if the 60K service included a radiator flush/refill. IF
they didn't use it and IF you actually have ANY headgasket issues, you
MIGHT be able to hold them accountable. In reality, the conditioner is
only to prevent external (leaking coolant onto the ground) leaks. But,
putting up a fuss about it may get you somewhere.

good luck and please let us know what you find.

 

[Mike]

If I remember correctly, if the dealer added the coolant conditioner
back when the TSB was issued, it extended the warranty to 8 yrs or
100,000 miles. With an '02 you are just outside of that warranty, but
considering your mileage maybe you can work something out with them?

 

[DK]

If I remember correctly, if the dealer added the coolant conditioner
back when the TSB was issued, it extended the warranty to 8 yrs or
100,000 miles. With an '02 you are just outside of that warranty, but
considering your mileage maybe you can work something out with them?

Alas, this particular car was NOT under this recall. Somehow, some
2002 cars were and some weren't. I just looked at the 60K job slip and
it is listed there: "coolant sys SOA635071" $1.75

What I have hard time believing is that it was pure co-incidence
that the car started to leak the day I took it from the dealer's 60K
maintenance. On the other hand, I can't even start guessing what it
was they could do wrong to make it leak... I know, my own fault and
it's way too late now (I was sick and my wife dis not feel like going
back to the dealership).

Headgasket at 60K is completely ridiculous. My old Impreza is at
120K now without any hints of the problem. I am going to see an
independent mechanic tomorrow.

Forgot to ask in the dealership for how long they guarantee a new
gasket they'd put in. Anyone knows?

- Dima

 

[DK]

Candidly, I've been a big Forester fan and my wife has an '08 but if I
see this problem again on either Forester, I may be looking at other
brand AWD's next time I need a new one.

My wife insists on three things for her car:
- AWD
- SUV
- manual

I also insist that it has to be reliable and inexpensive. Other than
Forester/Subaru, what cars might fit the bill?

 

[Frank]

My wife insists on three things for her car:
- AWD
- SUV
- manual

I also insist that it has to be reliable and inexpensive. Other than
Forester/Subaru, what cars might fit the bill?

Toyota RAV 4 and Honda CRV come to mind. They may not be base AWD and
probably cost a bit more. I have not driven either and guy I know got a
Forester over the RAV 4 as he said RAV 4 drove like a truck.

 

[clare]

My wife insists on three things for her car:
- AWD
- SUV
- manual

I also insist that it has to be reliable and inexpensive. Other than
Forester/Subaru, what cars might fit the bill?

Perhaps the Toyota RAV or Highlander?
Or the Honda CRV?
The Hyundai and Kia offerings are getting pretty darn good reviews
too, at a lower cost.

 

[Dean Hoffman]

My wife insists on three things for her car:
- AWD
- SUV
- manual

I also insist that it has to be reliable and inexpensive. Other than
Forester/Subaru, what cars might fit the bill?

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports small SUVs:

Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester, Honda CRV, Mitsubishi Outlander,
Nissan Rogue, Hyundai Tuscon in that order.

 

[DK]

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports small SUVs:

Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester, Honda CRV, Mitsubishi Outlander,
Nissan Rogue, Hyundai Tuscon in that order.

It seems that for all of them, the combination of AWD/MT is not
available in the USA. Weird. Staying with this Forester has just
become more appealing...

DK

 

[Frank]

It seems that for all of them, the combination of AWD/MT is not
available in the USA. Weird. Staying with this Forester has just
become more appealing...

DK

I had not considered manual transmission and don't know why anyone would
want one except maybe to save a few dollars. Mileage on automatic is
nearly as good.

 

[John Varela]

For what it's worth, Consumer Reports small SUVs:

Toyota RAV4, Subaru Forester, Honda CRV, Mitsubishi Outlander,
Nissan Rogue, Hyundai Tuscon in that order.

You must be looking at an old list.

The Consumer Reports 2011 Buying Guide, p. 120, rates them, in
order:

Subaru Forester 2.5XT Limited 87
Subaru Forester 2.5XT (MT) 84
Toyota RAV4 Limited (V6) 83
Kia Sorento 82 (new model, reliability unk)
Toyota RAV4 (base, 4 cyl) 82
Subaru Forester 2.5X 82
Hyundai Santa Fe Limited (V6) 80
Honda CR-V EX 76
Kia Sorento LX (4 cyl) 75 (new model, reliability unk)
Mitsubishi Outlander LS (4 cyl) 73
Hyundai Santa Fe GLS (4 cyl) 73
Nissan Rogue SL 73

The choice seems clear.

 

[Big Jim]

Suzuki SX4- With a timing CHAIN instead of the crappy BELTS subaru and
others use and well under $20k
Nisan Rogue- Problems with CVT but manual solves that
Kia Sportage/sorrento
Hyunday tuscon both with the best warranty in USA
I like my -04 outback but the new styling and interiors are gadawful
and will not be choosing Subaru for my next vehicle

 

[clare]

I had not considered manual transmission and don't know why anyone would
want one except maybe to save a few dollars. Mileage on automatic is
nearly as good.

Save a few dollars? In some cases a manual actually costs MORE today.

 

[Big Jim]

Consumer Reports is hardly the standard for rating vehicles- the
hatchet job they did on the Isuzu Trooper comes to mind.