Ideas/thoughts on Subaru's upscale movement?

[Hallraker]

Most of you hardcore Subaru addicts are probably aware of Subaru's attempt
to move upscale. Recent readings indicate that they are apparently gunning
for BMW and Audi. As amused as I would be to see Subaru outsell Audi and
BMW, I just don't see that happening. And quite frankly, it worries me a
bit. I keep thinking about before the Outback, back when Subaru was trying
to compete with Toyota and Honda. They almost went down for good, at least
in the states, and fortunately they were able to rebound from those times by
revising their strategy and concentrating on the core of their product -
boxer engines and all wheel drive. And don't even get me started on the
SVX - that vehicle was before its time in so many ways, including the fact
that few people were willing to check out dealerships still known for
economy cars looking for a technologically advanced luxury sport coupe.

I for one, wish they'd stay further down on the automotive pricing ladder,
but they seem insistent on trying to move upscale. On the other hand, BMWs
of the past few years seem to have taken on an almost obsessive level of
technology, to the point where a lot of the reviews I've read are
complaining, at least in part, about the lack of driver involvement in the
newer BMWs. So perhaps there might be some room for Subaru there after all.

Any thoughts? Just curious on what other Subie enthusiasts think about
this.

-Matt

 

[Henry Paul]

I'm afraid they are going to end up creating products nobody will want and
alienating their diehard customers.

One of the major factors I look at for Subaru in addition to the reliability
is the price. If I wanted a BMW or an Audi I would buy one. I like Subaru
because they are different and not like every other car I pass on the road.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Any thoughts? Just curious on what other Subie enthusiasts think about

Hi,

I know I don't speak for a lot of people, but I first became aware of
Subaru when their sales pitch was "Inexpensive, and built to stay that
way."

My parts guy makes fun of my "antique" Subie, a '90 Loyale 4wd wagon,
that's now at 355,000 miles and wonders when I'm gonna buy a new one.
Unfortunately, for me, Subaru's gone down the wrong path. I'll probably
buy another one, but it will be another "oldie."

I can take mine off on dirt roads with adequate ground clearance and no
worry about tearing up an expensive 16" "show tire," kick it into 4wd if
life is slippery (and truth be told, I use the 4wd VERY seldom) but
leave it in 2wd and get decent fuel economy other times, and do
virtually all my own maintenance/repair work. I'm not sure I'd have the
same confidence in a new one.

It's nice to see Subaru's building some cars with a bit of go (those of
you who've driven EA-82 and prior engines know what I mean!) and all
mfrs are going the more bells and whistles route, but I think Subie's
reaching for a market it's not going to be that competitive in. Look at
the best selling car in the US: the Toyota Camry (and I've got one of
them, too.) It's rock solid, reasonably economical, and there are a lot
of them out there with numbers on the clock approaching Subaru's
"legendary" long life (mine's got 217k, and frankly, it's in better
shape than my Subie was at that point given similar usage.) Ok, it's not
a real exciting car to drive, but the sales numbers keep Toyota excited
enough. I think Subaru should be careful NOT to forget where they came
from, and keep that part of the market in mind.

Just my opinions, of course!

Rick

 

[Henry Paul]

I have to agree. I have a newer model, a '96 Impreza that I am thrilled to
death with. I bought it mostly for the fact that I can get to most anything
I need to under the hood to work on myself.

Subaru has a heritage to be proud of. They don't need to screw it up by
becoming a cross-dressing street-walker.

 

[TG]

I hadn't noticed a move to upscale. TG

 

[Hallraker]

I hadn't noticed a move to upscale. TG

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100028
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100366
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100451

Articles are a few months old, but still good reading. I noticed the trend
even before reading those articles, when I stopped up to the Subie dealer to
get some parts. I strolled on over to the new Legacies and was almost
startled by the differences between the new model and my ancient '95. Dual
exhaust? Big wheels? A turbocharger not to compensate for a lack of power,
but simply for the sake of more? They are moving upward, or at least are
trying to. As of right now you can still get a Subaru for under $20k but
who knows for how long? I'm not complaining, mind you, but not everyone can
afford a $35k+ car and I'm just worried that Subaru might alienate their
"Inexpensive and built to stay that way" fan base.

-Matt

 

[busterb]

Any thoughts? Just curious on what other Subie enthusiasts think about

this.

-Matt

I got my 04 OBW for under 20k . I am quite pleased with the car as it
is the perfect combination of sporty fun to drive but ale to handle
bad weather and moderately rough terrain. I am concerned that subaru
is pricing themselves out of their former tatrget audience. When I
need a new car in 7 years (I usually keep a car for about 8 years-
then its not worth fixing to me) and Subie is 35k I may look
elsewhere. Go back to your roots subaru or you;ll be in chap 11 isn
the us

 

[busterb]

Any thoughts? Just curious on what other Subie enthusiasts think about

this.

-Matt

I got my 04 OBW for under 20k . I am quite pleased with the car as it
is the perfect combination of sporty fun to drive but ale to handle
bad weather and moderately rough terrain. I am concerned that subaru
is pricing themselves out of their former tatrget audience. When I
need a new car in 7 years (I usually keep a car for about 8 years-
then its not worth fixing to me) and Subie is 35k I may look
elsewhere. Go back to your roots subaru or you;ll be in chap 11 isn
the us

 

[Don.]

I hadn't noticed a move to upscale. TG

What about the Turbo and bigger engines? Hadn't noticed?
It's all over the place. That and plusher interiors, etc.

I like the turbo & engine upgrades, but don't need the plushness; if I
wanted that I'd switch to Dodge SUVs. (Gag!)

Don

 

[BlueSTi]

Most of you hardcore Subaru addicts are probably aware of Subaru's attempt
to move upscale. Recent readings indicate that they are apparently gunning
for BMW and Audi. As amused as I would be to see Subaru outsell Audi and
BMW, I just don't see that happening. And quite frankly, it worries me a
bit. I keep thinking about before the Outback, back when Subaru was trying
to compete with Toyota and Honda. They almost went down for good, at least
in the states, and fortunately they were able to rebound from those times by
revising their strategy and concentrating on the core of their product -
boxer engines and all wheel drive. And don't even get me started on the
SVX - that vehicle was before its time in so many ways, including the fact
that few people were willing to check out dealerships still known for
economy cars looking for a technologically advanced luxury sport coupe.

I for one, wish they'd stay further down on the automotive pricing ladder,
but they seem insistent on trying to move upscale. On the other hand, BMWs
of the past few years seem to have taken on an almost obsessive level of
technology, to the point where a lot of the reviews I've read are
complaining, at least in part, about the lack of driver involvement in the
newer BMWs. So perhaps there might be some room for Subaru there after all.

Any thoughts? Just curious on what other Subie enthusiasts think about
this.

-Matt

I think Subaru is going in the right direction. The STi is a case and
point. For what you get it is a bargain. Sure there is the EVO. But
it is a kidney jarring monster that you have to drive like you stole
it. The STi has a smooth powerband and a ride that is bearable.
I think they struck a good compromise between
power/handling/ride/price.


BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"

 

[TG]

Subaru's have been available with turbo's for 20 years or more. I don't
think of upscale as having anything to do with power anyway but to me it's a
good thing. We leave the Legacy at home when traveling 2 lane highways...the
wife's VR4 has soooo much more power for passing safely, handles better and
looks better also.
As far as the interior I don't see anything great but it might be nicer by
a bit, I just went and looked at a new '05 GT Legacy so I could feel a
little more like I know what I'm talking about and I certainly like the
changes...it wasn't that expensive either. TG

 

[Ignignokt]

I think Subaru is going in the right direction. The STi is a case and
point. For what you get it is a bargain. Sure there is the EVO. But
it is a kidney jarring monster that you have to drive like you stole
it. The STi has a smooth powerband and a ride that is bearable.
I think they struck a good compromise between
power/handling/ride/price.

I think I'm with Blue. My Forester is just at the bottom end of what I'd be
happy with, as far as creature comforts and performance go. The Forester XT
(while not a "Premium," it's still toward the top end of their "bells and
whistles" scale) was actually a step down for me from my previous cars. It
was a sacrifice I made in order to gain AWD and still remain inside my
budget. Had I been able to wait a bit, I'd likely be in an '05 Legacy GT
right now instead of the Forester. If I'd had deep enough pockets, I'd be
in an AWD Audi, BMW, or Volvo. The Forester XT fills an otherwise empty
niche. I fully expect that my next vehicle will be the 05-generation Legacy
GT -- unless they come out with something better in the mean time.

Will Subaru alienate their so-called "core" customers by continuing to offer
more up-scale products? Not being in that "core" demographic, I can't say
for sure. I'm guessing that these customers are being kept quite happy with
the base Impreza and Legacy models, which IMO still offer an excellent
bargain, if AWD is important to you. But I can tell you this much for
certain: I wouldn't be a Subaru owner today were it not for their more
upscale offerings. I wouldn't have even considered it. I'd have purchased
a used European car before a base Impreza or Legacy, or even an Outback.

- Greg Reed

 

[Catherine Hampton]

Subject: Ideas/thoughts on Subaru's upscale movement?

<sigh>

I've driven Subarus for almost 20 years because they are:

* low center of gravity/handle well ("boxer engine")
* 4WD/AWD
* Moderately priced

I've come to dislike what I see as Subaru Corporate's lack of concern for
customer service and lack of interest in customer feedback.

If Subaru goes upscale with *part* of its line, but not all of it, I don't
particularly care. If it goes upscale with its entire line, though, that will
remove one strong reason for me to buy Subaru. If I can get a good small Audi
AWD wagon for the same price as a Subaru with the same basic features, Audi's
superior customer service might well tilt the balance.



--
Catherine Hampton <(e-mail address removed)>
Home Page * <http://www.devsite.org/>
The SpamBouncer * <http://www.spambouncer.org/>

(Please use this address for replies -- the address in my header is a
spam trap.)

 

[Hal Whelply]

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:31:32 GMT, "Hallraker"
<(e-mail address removed)>
wrote:
"...If I can get a good small Audi
AWD wagon for the same price as a Subaru with the same basic features,
Audi's
superior customer service might well tilt the balance."

And, given what I've heard about Audi reliability, you may also enjoy more
frequent contact with the service department.

 

[JDC]

Of course, the low end 2005 Outback is about 2K more in real dollars than
the 2004. It will be interesting to see if in places like Vermont where
Subaru had a 5% market share, if they keep that share. I have noticed a lot
of Toyota Matrix automobiles up there recently.

 

[Don.]

I didn't get my first Subaru until 1997, an OB. I'd really not paid any
attention to them since the first I saw in 1975 or so. "Cute little
cars." They've changed a bit since then.

And I guess that's what we are talking about with "upscale movement." I
got to thinking about that a little more and the best comparison I can make
is to comment on "upscaling" the Model T in 1917. Glad we aren't still
there! It's all about marketing. If you don't improve something, it used
to be the dash, the wings for rear fenders, etc. you don't attract new
buyers each year. I don't like the Porsches from 1990 on, but look at how
they've been accepted by a new breed of buyer, with purple interiors with
yellow piping, etc. Enough to gag a maggot.

But that's what sells cars. Otherwise you go into Chapter 11; not becuase
you stay the same year after year.

Don

 

[Hallraker]

Of course, the low end 2005 Outback is about 2K more in real dollars than
the 2004. It will be interesting to see if in places like Vermont where
Subaru had a 5% market share, if they keep that share. I have noticed a lot
of Toyota Matrix automobiles up there recently.

Interesting. I wondered what kind of effect the Matrix and Vibe might have
in the long run on the high-concentration Subaru areas. I know that Toyota
and Honda didn't do nearly as well in the 4x4 car segment as Subaru did,
just as Subaru abandoned the bland front drive segment in an effort to
concentrate on their niche marketing strategy which has worked so well for
10 years.

-Matt

 

[tcassette]

My customer feedback to Subaru has been "When do we in the US get the turbo
Legacy models offered in other markets?" Lo and behold, they have finally
responded. My 96 Outback has generally been pretty good, but it is
definitely not a fast car. I'm all for Subaru upgrading their vehicles, as
long as they undercut Audi, VW, and the other European makes who include
average or worse reliability as a standard feature.

 

[TG]

AUDI? Out of the top 30 manufacturers rated for overall reliability by
Consumer Reports (admittedly a questionable group), Subaru ranks 6th and
Audi a sad 20th....that's even worse than 7 of the US manufacturers...not
good!
From my experience repairing Audis and the expense of parts I don't
consider them an equal car or much of an alternative. TG

 

[Henry Paul]

So then what Subaru is planning is to up the price and lower the quality?
Figures.