I still don't believe it!

[Passenger]

I have a 1997 Legacy L Subaru SW with 125,000. Car runs smoothly with
get-up-and-go EVEN with the AC engaged. Sharp turns create a
shuttering / intermittent lurching. I'm told by a trusted mechanic and
transmission "experts" that the transmission needs replacing. The
transmission fluid and screened has been serviced. How can a
transmission affect turning? Comments please. Thank you.

 

[johninky]

I have a 1997 Legacy L Subaru SW with 125,000. Car runs smoothly with
get-up-and-go EVEN with the AC engaged. Sharp turns create a
shuttering / intermittent lurching. I'm told by a trusted mechanic and
transmission "experts" that the transmission needs replacing. The
transmission fluid and screened has been serviced. How can a
transmission affect turning? Comments please. Thank you.

At the very rear of the transmission is a clutch pack that provides
the AWD. It is designed to "slip" when the car is in a turn because
the wheels on the side of the turn have to turn less than the outside
wheels. Running mismatched tires is the classical way to damage this
clutch pack. Good news is if indeed the clutch pack is damaged just
it and not the entire transaxle can be replaced. Cost savings is
significant. Transmission doesn't even have to be removed. Under the
hood, thinking on the passenger side, there is a small black box with
the letters FWD. Inside the box there is a fuse. Insert the fuse in
the holder and this will disable the AWD system. If the jerking stops
with the fuse enplace then the problem is the clutch pack.

Always run matched tires on an AWD Subaru. Make sure even the tire
pressure is to specs.

Another very slim possibility is a bad front CV axle. If the car
still jerks in a turn with the fuse installed then the transmission is
fine and suspect an axle problem.

 

[johninky]

Found a photo of this transmission. The housing over the black
crossmember contains the clutch pack. Just have to remove a few bolts
and the puppy just falls off.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I have a 1997 Legacy L Subaru SW with 125,000. Car runs smoothly with
get-up-and-go EVEN with the AC engaged. Sharp turns create a
shuttering / intermittent lurching. I'm told by a trusted mechanic and
transmission "experts" that the transmission needs replacing. The
transmission fluid and screened has been serviced. How can a
transmission affect turning? Comments please. Thank you.

Most likely you are experiencing 'torque bind' (though a second opinion
to rule out bad U-joint or other issues is advised) due ,perhaps, to a
wet clutch pack going bad.(assuming you have an automatic tranny)

You should confirm that all the tires on the car are the same type and
have the same amount of wear. A new or mismatched tire mixed in can
cause torque bind.

I THINK 97 is in the year range that may have had an aluminum tranny
part (seat or sleeve???) that was changed to steel in later models.

Carl

 

[S.Hansen]

I have a 1997 Legacy L Subaru SW with 125,000. Car runs smoothly with
get-up-and-go EVEN with the AC engaged. Sharp turns create a
shuttering / intermittent lurching. I'm told by a trusted mechanic and
transmission "experts" that the transmission needs replacing. The
transmission fluid and screened has been serviced. How can a
transmission affect turning? Comments please. Thank you.

Johninky and Carl have covered two bases. Now for another option Go to the
ford dealership and buy a bottle of "Friction Modifier", Ford uses it in
rear ends. Now I have to check in with the techs at the shop- I believe you
want to put it in the ATF, but may be the ft diff. does miricals, and have
seen it cure several subarues.
I'll post back tommorow with more.
Steve

 

[djay]

I have a 1997 Legacy L Subaru SW with 125,000. Car runs smoothly with
get-up-and-go EVEN with the AC engaged. Sharp turns create a
shuttering / intermittent lurching. I'm told by a trusted mechanic and
transmission "experts" that the transmission needs replacing. The
transmission fluid and screened has been serviced. How can a
transmission affect turning? Comments please. Thank you.

When the transmission fluid was "serviced" was it drained and filled or
power flushed? Depending on the history, power flushes can be very
detrimental if they were never done and then @ 125K the first power flush is
done. The theory is that a bunch of crap is suddenly stirred up under the
power flush. Anyway, a similar thing happened with my 98 legacy. I had it
"power flushed" at 80K or so and experienced the same "shudder" at low speed
and tight turns. Another poster recommended a $10.00 bottle of "lubegard
ATF" additive. With the alternative being a $900 tranny job I put the pint
of lubegard in the tranny. It worked like a charm. That was 5 years ago
and the sub is still running strong at 150K+ miles. Here's a link for the
stuff - I had to go to a local garage to get it.

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...2&prev=/images?q=lubegard+ATF&hl=en&sa=X&um=1

good luck!

Djay

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Johninky and Carl have covered two bases. Now for another option Go to the
ford dealership and buy a bottle of "Friction Modifier", Ford uses it in
rear ends. Now I have to check in with the techs at the shop- I believe you
want to put it in the ATF, but may be the ft diff. does miricals, and have
seen it cure several subarues.
I'll post back tommorow with more.
Steve

Toyota now recommends GM...

 

[NewsGroupie]

When the transmission fluid was "serviced" was it drained and filled or
power flushed?  Depending on the history, power flushes can be very
detrimental if they were never done and then @ 125K the first power flushis
done.  The theory is that a bunch of crap is suddenly stirred up under the
power flush.  Anyway, a similar thing happened with my 98 legacy.  I had it
"power flushed" at 80K or so and experienced the same "shudder" at low speed
and tight turns.  Another poster recommended a $10.00 bottle of "lubegard
ATF" additive.  With the alternative being a $900 tranny job I put the pint
of lubegard in the tranny.  It worked like a charm.  That was 5 yearsago
and the sub is still running strong at 150K+ miles.  Here's a link for the
stuff - I had to go to a local garage to get it.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.makcotransmissionpa....

good luck!

Djay

Passenger: I had the transmission fluid and screen serviced March 6,
2009.

 

[MZ]

I have a 1997 Legacy L Subaru SW with 125,000. Car runs smoothly with
get-up-and-go EVEN with the AC engaged. Sharp turns create a
shuttering / intermittent lurching. I'm told by a trusted mechanic and
transmission "experts" that the transmission needs replacing. The
transmission fluid and screened has been serviced. How can a
transmission affect turning? Comments please. Thank you.

It is definitely "torque bind." Good news, it can be repaired. You just
have to find a tech who knows why and how to repair. Anyone who has
serviced Soobs for 10+ should know. I have a friend who did my daughter's
'95 Impreza two yrs ago and it's still fine.

MZ

 

[NewsGroupie]

It is definitely "torque bind."  Good news, it can be repaired.  You just
have to find a tech who knows why and how to repair.  Anyone who has
serviced Soobs for 10+ should know.  I have a friend who did my daughter's
'95 Impreza two yrs ago and it's still fine.

MZ

Thanks for the info. I don't suppose your friend lives in the
Philadelphia PA (USA) area...does he?

 

[S.Hansen]

It is definitely "torque bind." Good news, it can be repaired. You just
have to find a tech who knows why and how to repair. Anyone who has
serviced Soobs for 10+ should know. I have a friend who did my daughter's
'95 Impreza two yrs ago and it's still fine.

MZ

Thanks for the info. I don't suppose your friend lives in the
Philadelphia PA (USA) area...does he?
Buddy, save yourself some time, get the ford friction modifer and put it in
the auto trans (the problem occored after the trans flush right?)
Hint. I work at a subie shop. We keep it readly available. Had a used car
giving issues, put some in and drove it in circiles, problem fadded away.

 

[NewsGroupie]

Thanks for the info.  I don't suppose your friend lives in the
Philadelphia PA (USA) area...does he?
Buddy, save yourself some time, get the ford friction modifer and put it in
the auto trans (the problem occored after the trans flush right?)
Hint. I work at a subie shop. We keep it readly available. Had a used car
giving issues, put some in and drove it in circiles, problem fadded away.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The problem began LONG before the transmission service. I will try the
ford friction modifier. Thank you

 

[MZ]

Thanks for the info. I don't suppose your friend lives in the
Philadelphia PA (USA) area...does he?
Buddy, save yourself some time, get the ford friction modifer and put it
in
the auto trans (the problem occored after the trans flush right?)
Hint. I work at a subie shop. We keep it readly available. Had a used car
giving issues, put some in and drove it in circiles, problem fadded away.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The problem began LONG before the transmission service. I will try the
ford friction modifier. Thank you

It will go away for a short period, actually even without the anti-friction
juice, by just driving it in circles. But eventually the binding will
return and it will actually be dangerous when it does because it is worse
and can prevent turning. Find someone who knows the problem and can perform
the repair. Sorry, my friend is in Nova Scotia - lol. If you find someone
who is competent (not just confident) I can ask my friend to describe the
fix in an email.
MZ

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Thanks for the info. I don't suppose your friend lives in the
Philadelphia PA (USA) area...does he?
Buddy, save yourself some time, get the ford friction modifer and put it in
the auto trans (the problem occored after the trans flush right?)
Hint. I work at a subie shop. We keep it readly available. Had a used car
giving issues, put some in and drove it in circiles, problem fadded away.

This friction modifier won't prevent the AWD from working will it? I
mean, the wet clutch pack will still transfer torque to the rear as
before right?

Carl

 

[clare]

This friction modifier won't prevent the AWD from working will it? I
mean, the wet clutch pack will still transfer torque to the rear as
before right?

Carl

It will make it work like new.

 

[Dominic Richens]

Is this AT or MT?

If it's MT, often just getting new tires and an alignment will solve the
problem

 

[StephenH]

This friction modifier won't prevent the AWD from working will it? I
mean, the wet clutch pack will still transfer torque to the rear as
before right?

Carl

no, won't do much else. I'm in Subaru school this week, (manual
transmissions) I'll quiz the instructor and other tech's tommorow on
the hows and why, and if the instructor knows more about this.

 

[StephenH]

no, won't do much else. I'm in Subaru school this week, (manual
transmissions) I'll quiz the instructor and other tech's tommorow on
the hows and why, and if the instructor knows more about this.

Talked with the instructor, the friction modifier was a authorized
Subaru fix in the early 90's, but sense then modifications in the
clutch plates it is not done anymore. That is the official Subaru
standpoint. On my car, I would try it first rather than run to a
transmission shop.

 

[4orrester]

What are the possible long-term affects of torque-bind? Is this a real
problem or just something that sounds bad once in a blue moon in an extreme
situation? If it were a safety issue (steering lock-up problems) it would
have created a major recall and/or class-action suit. If it is causing
prematurely worn or damaged parts then I'm guessing the engineers at Subaru
would have been instructed to correct it sometime in the last 10 years. Is
it possible one could be doing more damage by increasing the slip and
reducing the tourqe on the front end? I know it feels like it at times, but
I have never had to turn the wheel hard and drive in circles on paved
parking lots for extended periods of time. The closest I come to this is on
old forest trails - but the dirt/grass/gravel allows the inside wheel to
slip. I think I like the extra torque on those wheels in those situations.
Maybe it is another reason why Subaru's don't get stuck very often.

How many people out there have had real problems because of this and not
just conjecture or hearsay? What was the cost of repair and how many miles
were on the car?

Am I going to see a special on Fox news about the lurking dangers of
Japanese imports? Will it make Beck cry again?

no, won't do much else. I'm in Subaru school this week, (manual
transmissions) I'll quiz the instructor and other tech's tommorow on
the hows and why, and if the instructor knows more about this.

Talked with the instructor, the friction modifier was a authorized
Subaru fix in the early 90's, but sense then modifications in the
clutch plates it is not done anymore. That is the official Subaru
standpoint. On my car, I would try it first rather than run to a
transmission shop.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

What are the possible long-term affects of torque-bind? Is this a real
problem or just something that sounds bad once in a blue moon in an extreme
situation? If it were a safety issue (steering lock-up problems) it would
have created a major recall and/or class-action suit. If it is causing
prematurely worn or damaged parts then I'm guessing the engineers at Subaru
would have been instructed to correct it sometime in the last 10 years.

Subaru recommends no more than 1/4" difference in CIRCUMFERENCE between
the tires. Now, how long/how severely can that be violated to damage or
affect length-of-service of driveline parts? Who knows. But it is a
legitimate concern (perhaps to varying extent) with ALL AWD and any 4WD
vehicles when on dry pavement. The primary component that will be
damaged is the center diiferential/clutchpack in the transmission. AWD
and 4WD are 'performance' features and require a little more
knowledge/care by the consumer. I once heard of a lady that had her
vehicle in 4WD and was trying to parallel park. The jeep became
immobilized and had to be jacked up on one corner to 'unwind' the drive
train and allow the hubs to be unlocked/w'ever.


Is

it possible one could be doing more damage by increasing the slip and
reducing the tourqe on the front end? I know it feels like it at times, but
I have never had to turn the wheel hard and drive in circles on paved
parking lots for extended periods of time. The closest I come to this is on
old forest trails - but the dirt/grass/gravel allows the inside wheel to
slip. I think I like the extra torque on those wheels in those situations.
Maybe it is another reason why Subaru's don't get stuck very often.

Certainly under most off-road conditions as well as weather induced poor
traction situations on pavement, there is enough slippage to prevent
binding from occuring.

How many people out there have had real problems because of this and not
just conjecture or hearsay? What was the cost of repair and how many miles
were on the car?

You can find plenty of examples by searching. try www.ultimatesubaru.org
and www.nasioc.com .


carl