Got a ticket

[WRXtreme]

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly
saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw
spin, and he said the front ones, just like every other import I see driving
around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He
looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front
tire spin. I then proceded to tell him that I have launched this car many
many times at a drag strip and never experienced any wheel spin, I asked if
maybe what he heard was my BOV, since it kinda has a "bark-psssshhhhttttt"
sound when it goes off. Again, funny look on his face. I then said, ok
give me the ticket, I'll see you in court. Blank white look on his face,
but he gives me the ticket anyway.

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a
racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he
said it did?

 

[Rob Munach]

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly
saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw
spin, and he said the front ones, just like every other import I see driving
around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He
looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front
tire spin. I then proceded to tell him that I have launched this car many
many times at a drag strip and never experienced any wheel spin, I asked if
maybe what he heard was my BOV, since it kinda has a "bark-psssshhhhttttt"
sound when it goes off. Again, funny look on his face. I then said, ok
give me the ticket, I'll see you in court. Blank white look on his face,
but he gives me the ticket anyway.

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a
racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he
said it did?

Probably not. FWIW, you probably deserved the ticket for something you
did in your WRX within a couple of hours of your ticket :>

 

[Todd H.]

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly
saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw
spin, and he said the front ones, just like every other import I see driving
around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He
looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front
tire spin. I then proceded to tell him that I have launched this car many
many times at a drag strip and never experienced any wheel spin, I asked if
maybe what he heard was my BOV, since it kinda has a "bark-psssshhhhttttt"
sound when it goes off. Again, funny look on his face. I then said, ok
give me the ticket, I'll see you in court. Blank white look on his face,
but he gives me the ticket anyway.

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a
racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he
said it did?

I'm no lawyer, but making it know that you regularly visit the drag
strip in your car is unlikely to persuade a judge into thinking that
you couldn't have possibly been guilty of exhibition driving.

 

[Ed P]

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly
saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw
spin, and he said the front ones, just like every other import I see driving
around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He
looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front
tire spin. I then proceded to tell him that I have launched this car many
many times at a drag strip and never experienced any wheel spin, I asked if
maybe what he heard was my BOV, since it kinda has a "bark-psssshhhhttttt"
sound when it goes off. Again, funny look on his face. I then said, ok
give me the ticket, I'll see you in court. Blank white look on his face,
but he gives me the ticket anyway.

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a
racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he
said it did?

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that, if you are going to fight the
ticket in court, what you need is an "expert" to testify on your behalf
that your car wouldn't -- couldn't? -- spin the wheels, expecially not
just the front wheels. Perhaps a Subaru mechanic who has roadtested
your car. My point is that whatever you say is just your biased opinion
as opposed to expert and independent testimony.

Ed P

 

[Cam Penner]

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly
saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw
spin, and he said the front ones, just like every other import I see driving
around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He
looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front
tire spin. I then proceded to tell him that I have launched this car many
many times at a drag strip and never experienced any wheel spin, I asked if
maybe what he heard was my BOV, since it kinda has a "bark-psssshhhhttttt"
sound when it goes off. Again, funny look on his face. I then said, ok
give me the ticket, I'll see you in court. Blank white look on his face,
but he gives me the ticket anyway.

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a
racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he
said it did?

No. I doubt it. But you may have an argument with the AWD
thing. Chances are that you could have got the ticket
without spinning out. Launching too hard on the street -
wheelspin or not - is still grounds for a potential ticket.

I'd go with the AWD argument if you're going to fight the
ticket. Explain that a noticeable wheelspin at the front
wheels would have been accompanied by some wheelspin of the
rears. Ask if there were any marks left on the road by
YOUR vehicle. (Better yet, take some pictures of the road
where this allegedly happened showing NO marks, and bring
them with you to court).

You might offer the judge a demonstration [1] (at a
suitable off road location), but that may sound snarky and
cheeky, and get him to rule against you based on your
attitude. If you have footage of a WRX (not your own)
racing a FWD car at a dragstrip showing differences in
wheelspin, that might be ok, but I doubt it would count for
anything.


[1] I know of a story where a cop ticketed a motorcycle for
failure to stop at a stopsign because they didn't put their
feet down. In his mind, if the foot didn't go down, they
didn't stop. This particular rider was a rather
accomplished rider, and in court offered the judge a
demonstration. They all went outside to the bike, and the
rider proceeded to ride to a stop in front of the judge.
They then balanced for over a minute at a dead stop with no
feet down. The judge returned to the courtroom and threw
out the ticket.

 

[Cam Penner]

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that, if you are going to fight the
ticket in court, what you need is an "expert" to testify on your behalf
that your car wouldn't -- couldn't? -- spin the wheels, expecially not
just the front wheels. Perhaps a Subaru mechanic who has roadtested
your car. My point is that whatever you say is just your biased opinion
as opposed to expert and independent testimony.

Excellent call. You need a qualified expert witness.
Preferably a factory trained Subaru mechanic. With his
certification certificates with him. Unfortunately,
supplying such a witness - if you don't have contacts - is
likely to cost more than the ticket. You are still SOL if
the cop bases his "reason" for the ticket on more than just
the alleged wheelspin. If you can disprove the wheelspin,
you certainly can try for "reasonable doubt" on the rest of
the grounds for the ticket as well.

 

[Brian Fox]

Excellent call. You need a qualified expert witness.
Preferably a factory trained Subaru mechanic. With his
certification certificates with him. Unfortunately,
supplying such a witness - if you don't have contacts - is
likely to cost more than the ticket. You are still SOL if
the cop bases his "reason" for the ticket on more than just
the alleged wheelspin. If you can disprove the wheelspin,
you certainly can try for "reasonable doubt" on the rest of
the grounds for the ticket as well.

What's the fine $ ?

 

[Dan Duncan]

around. Then I asked if he was sure about that since my car is AWD. He
looked at me kinda funny and said, well, I heard it, and I saw the front
tire spin.

Your best bet would have been to carry a tape recorder with you
and to have it running when you talked to him.

It's useful for when he changes his story in court.

NOW I carry a tape recorder in my car.

*mutter* Lying sack of crap. *mutter*

-DanD

 

[George Adams]

Unless your right to drive is at stake, fighting a traffic ticket is generally
futile. The couts are very busy, and judges look with displeasure at anyone
cluttering up their docket with what they consider insignificant charges.

If you win, which is highly unlikely, you will become a priority target of the
local gendarmes for some time to come...they don't enjoy looking foolish in
court. Take it from someone who has been around the block a time or three, pay
the fine with a big smile on your face, and put the whole mess behind you.


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller

 

[Byron]

Do you think it would be to my benefit to bring a video of me launching at a

racetrack and having ZERO wheel spin as proof that my car didn't do what he
said it did?

I would suggest bringing a tape of your car with you doing a drag strip
launch. I'd also have on the tape a street launch where your blowoff
valve is clearly audible and your vehicle doing a street launch where
you never exceed the speed limit. However, I wouldn't let them know you
have the tape for evidence unless things looked pretty bad for your case.
Also, you can say (if it's true) that you do your performance driving on
a track and not on public roads. Again, I wouldn't say this right off
the bat. You could also throw in the fact that Subaru encourages use on
the track by giving new WRX owners a free one year membership to the
SCCA, which is a responsible racing organization.

Be careful, be quick, and show respect to everyone in the court.

- Byron
'02 WRX wagon who somehow missed my free SCCA membership

 

[CompUser]

What's the fine $ ?

for exhibition of speed, probably pretty
substantial, with points to match.

Steve

 

[Guido]

The correct response to the law enforcement officer would go something like
this. But first look at his collar or shoulders for any signs of rank;
chevrons=sgt. - single bar=lieutenant - two bars=captain or if he is a state
trooper such as in ohio, address him as Trooper if he doesn't have any of
the above.

" I'm sorry ( officer, patrolman, sgt. lieutenant, trooper ) [ insert his
last name here which can be had by looking at the name tag on his uniform .]
But I purchased this car for one reason and one reason only; it's all wheel
drive and will not spin any of its tires on dry pavement. I'm sorry if I
inconvenienced you. But if you feel I did something wrong, I'll gladly
accept the traffic citation."

Make no admission of guilt, be sure to use the information he stated to you
about "the front wheels like every other import I see driving around," and
then bring the manual with you to court. It's quite simple. Explain the
situation in front of a judge, don't argue your case to the officer on the
street, argue in court. Remember, this guy has people lying to him at least
8 hours a day. While in court, invite the judge or any law enforcement
officer to drive your car to see for themselves if they don't believe you.
And you don't need an attorney for traffic court. A little politeness goes a
long way.

But I think you really burned yourself when you brought up the drag strip
scenario which goes to your character of being possibly reckless, and may
lead the judge to believe you were perhaps recklessly operating your motor
vehicle and the officer gave you a break by writing you a ticket for a
violation that carried with it a lesser point violation and lesser fine.

Take you chances in court. My prediction - you'll be found guilty, fine, and
costs and points. But hey, .....Take a chance.

As far as the video of you and your car at the drag strip - YOU'VE GOT TO BE
FREAKIN' KIDDIN' ME! I CAN'T EVEN BELIEVE YOU SAID THIS TO THAT
POLICEMAN!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CompUser]

I'm no lawyer, but making it know that you regularly visit the drag
strip in your car is unlikely to persuade a judge into thinking that
you couldn't have possibly been guilty of exhibition driving.

Not necessarily.

Depends on how he couches it.

If he introduces it along the lines that he keeps
his racing on the track, and off the road...it
could be well received.

Steve

 

[CompUser]

Unless your right to drive is at stake, fighting a traffic ticket is generally
futile. The couts are very busy, and judges look with displeasure at anyone
cluttering up their docket with what they consider insignificant charges.

Baloney. *That* is what _traffic courts_ are
there for, and that's ALL they hear. I've seen
very few people who disputed a cite not receive
at least a *reduction* in their fine.

If you win, which is highly unlikely,

"Winning" in traffic court isn't black & white.
There's the possibility of reduced fine,
diversion, and of course dismissal, which might
be attainable in his case, if one of the elements
of the charge is "breaking traction".

you will become a priority target of the
local gendarmes for some time to come

Geeze...get real!

...they don't enjoy looking foolish in
court.

Yeah, they'll risk their careers over a dismissed
traffic ticket...uh huh.

Take it from someone who has been around the block a time or three, pay
the fine with a big smile on your face, and put the whole mess behind you.

Based on what he's said, he's _not guilty_ of the
charge. I'd be severely annoyed with that.

Steve

 

[TG]

I'd go to court with all the stuff mentioned and hope the pig doesn't show
up...charges dismissed! TG

 

[Henry Paul]

I would focus on the biased, prejudiced not to mention illogically
fallacious comment about imports and front wheels spinning. Just because
some imports front wheels spin does not mean that the Subaru's wheels spin
just because it is an import. Then I would provide detailed information
about the Subaru AWD system and how you specifically bought it because the
wheels are electronically controlled to prevent wheelspin. Then offer a
demonstration after that.

Most likely the cop won't even show up anyway. It's too bad they don't make
them go to college and actually learn inductive and deductive reasoning
instead of being able to roam the country side using logical fallacies and
prejudiced opinions.

 

[L. Kreh]

I'm not a lawyer, but I would think that, if you are going to fight the

ticket in court, what you need is an "expert" to testify on your behalf
that your car wouldn't -- couldn't? -- spin the wheels, expecially not
just the front wheels. Perhaps a Subaru mechanic who has roadtested
your car. My point is that whatever you say is just your biased opinion
as opposed to expert and independent testimony.

Ed P

I am a lawyer and, while the expert witness idea might work, it might
not. More important, an expert will cost you a lot more than the
ticket. If you have the time to fight it, your best bet is to simply
explain to the judge what you explained to us.

Good luck.

-LK

 

[Rick Courtright]

got a ticket the other day for exhibition driving because the cop allegedly
saw me "spin out" with my 02 automatic WRX. I asked him which tires he saw

IME, exhibition tickets are hard to beat. I saw one where the guy was
driving an old Ford pickup (6 cyl, stick) and made a right turn onto an
uphill section. The intersection was full of sand, and even though the
fellow was going rather slowly, all you guys who drive pickups know what
happened next. Inside rear wheel chirped. That truck could barely make
the speed limit, let alone be an "exhibitionist's choice." Cop didn't
want to hear any of it. Judge DID listen to the story and tossed the
ticket, but you never know.

If you can get video or somebody from Subaru to back you up, it might
help. Personally, if traffic school (fine, yes, points, no) is available
to you, I'd consider it. If the judge has seen any WRX ads on TV, he
might side with the cop automatically.

And if there's a next time, when talking with the cop, remember "you
have the right to remain silent. Now USE it!" They don't want to hear
your stories on the street.

Rick

 

[Cam Penner]

Baloney. *That* is what _traffic courts_ are
there for, and that's ALL they hear. I've seen
very few people who disputed a cite not receive
at least a *reduction* in their fine.

But be prepared and be polite. I knew a guy that wasn't
prepared (he was counting on the officer not being there)
for his court date. His fine was doubled.

 

[George Adams]

From: CompUser

Baloney. *That* is what _traffic courts_ are
there for, and that's ALL they hear. I've seen
very few people who disputed a cite not receive
at least a *reduction* in their fine.

We don't have "Traffic Courts" where I live. Moving violations go on the docket
with all other district court charges. If you intend to go the court route
here, you better be very well prepared, and at least consult a lawyer to nget
his opinion as to your chances of beating the charge. If it's a "he said - she
said" kind of deal, you will lose, and the judge will be very annoyed that you
took up his time.

Geeze...get real!

Real depends on ehere you live. In a large city, you will get lost in the
crowd, and the above likely won't apply. If you live in a small town, you will
be watched closely, and sooner or later, they'll bag you.

Yeah, they'll risk their careers over a dismissed
traffic ticket...uh huh.

Who said anything about risking their careers? They won't invent anything, but
I have little doubt they could eventually find charges that will stick. There
not going to relenlessly hound the guy, or harass him, but he will definitely
be on their radar, and will get close scrutiny when they see him out and about.

Based on what he's said, he's _not guilty_ of the
charge. I'd be severely annoyed with that.

Key words there are "based on what he said". Based on what you said, no cop
would risk his career citing someone on false charges. Why is this case any
different? 'Cause the guy was driving a Subie? .....Get real!


George Adams

"All good fishermen stay young until they die, for fishing is the only dream of
youth that doth not grow stale with age."
---- J.W Muller