Getting ripped off at a dealership service dept?

[Bradley Walker]

Hello all,

I wanted to run a current situation past the experts on here to get your
thoughts. For 10 years my momhas been taking her `95 legacy to the
Ford/Mazda/Subaru Dealership's service department for service. So naturally
when I purchased my `01 Outback in December of this past year, I took mine
there as well. The main reason why I did this was because our service
advisor was a guy I truely trust and who is a computer customer of my
business. So there is a well earned personal and professional trust that
extends both ways. This was put to the test this past January when this
service advisor said my mom's ABS brake pump was leaking and needed to be
replaced. he said the cost for that pump alone would be in the $1500+ range
with labor and all costs exceeding $2200. Knowing my mom isn't the richest
person in the world, he suggested I find an ABS pump out of a wrecked Subaru
and bring it in and they'd use it. I've never seen any other service
advisor go out of their way and do that. In the end, I spent $110 at a
salvage yard for one of those, and her final cost was $300 including labor
to have it fxed.

Well two months ago this service advisor along with SIX other fellow
co-workers quit. I talked to this guy as a customer of mine and he
explained that the service manager was putting pressure on the advisors and
mechanic's to cut corners and milk customers for money. He in good faith
and conscience could not do that to the customers he respected and had to be
honest with. Now he is the service manager at a GM dealership and I plan to
contact him about finding where he works and possibly taking my Outback
there for service.

Now with all of this in mind, when I took my Outback in for servicing
yesterday of the CV boots which was getting close to critical, I had this
growing doubts in mind of quality of service with the new service advisor.
I dropped off my outback at 9:30am and didn't recieve it until close to
5:00pm that afternoon. While I understand that sometimes things get busy
and work may not start on time, but I had an appointment for that time for
over a week with a promies that it'd be done in around 3.5-4hrs. Even
though it wasn't completed on time, I didn't find that to be the issue.
When I went in to pick it up I was hit with a total bill of $397.76. The 2
CV boots ran $23.16 total with 150 grams of grease running $25.90. The
labor itself was $320.00. There was a misc charge of $25.00 for HazMat
disposal of the old grease.

My question to everyone is, is the process of replacing CV boots so
extensive that it would cost $320 in labor??

Also one final question. When I went in to pick it up, the service advisor
was a bit nervous (I could tell in his demeanor) because he had notes
written down that said I need *alot* more work done to the vehicle. He said
the rear brakes were near gone and that the rotors and pads would need to be
replaced now or otherwise they'd grind and the calipers would need to be
replaced. His estimated charge - $450. He said thd rive belts would need
to be replaced at a cost of $115. They did find a pinhole leak in the
radiator hose and rather than wanting to just replace that hose, kept
suggesting I get all heater/radiator hoses done at a total of $365. Along
with replacing the battery at $45, service the differential at $95, and
brake fluid flush of $100. If I said yes to that and let them keep it as he
seemed to be nerviously pushing for, it would have been at LEAST an
additional $1100.

I said no thanks and asked what it would cost just to replace the radiator
hose, the service advisor paused nerviously fingering over a paper and said
"I really don't know, let me check" and walked back off into a room out of
the main garage area. He was gone for about 5 minutes, came back and said
$90 for the hose + labor. I almost got the feeling that this guy was being
told or pushed to try and milk me for money and he had to go back and
confirm this with a service manager.

Here is the kicker. I had it in for an oil change last month and with that
oil change they spent an hour doing a multi-point inspection. NOTHING was
found to be critical other than the CV boots. Brakes were good, and
everything else on there list was good. They did make note at thetime that
the tires should be replaced before winter, but I've known that and plan to
take care of that in August. While I have no problem paying good money for
parts to be serviced and replaced when there is a legit need for it, I get
irked really bad by someone trying to rip me.

Please tell me your thoughts. Was the labor for the CV boots too much? I
glanced at the brake rotors on the front and rear brakes and both looked the
same. When I had a WV inspection in January, the guy said I had really
great brakes. That makes me feel like the dealership is trying to rip me a
new one. I plan on taking the tire off today and inspecting them myself.

Brad

 

[Jim Stewart]

Hello all,

I wanted to run a current situation past the experts on here to get your
thoughts. For 10 years my momhas been taking her `95 legacy to the
Ford/Mazda/Subaru Dealership's service department for service. So naturally
when I purchased my `01 Outback in December of this past year, I took mine
there as well. The main reason why I did this was because our service
advisor was a guy I truely trust and who is a computer customer of my
business. So there is a well earned personal and professional trust that
extends both ways. This was put to the test this past January when this
service advisor said my mom's ABS brake pump was leaking and needed to be
replaced. he said the cost for that pump alone would be in the $1500+ range
with labor and all costs exceeding $2200. Knowing my mom isn't the richest
person in the world, he suggested I find an ABS pump out of a wrecked Subaru
and bring it in and they'd use it. I've never seen any other service
advisor go out of their way and do that. In the end, I spent $110 at a
salvage yard for one of those, and her final cost was $300 including labor
to have it fxed.

Well two months ago this service advisor along with SIX other fellow
co-workers quit. I talked to this guy as a customer of mine and he
explained that the service manager was putting pressure on the advisors and
mechanic's to cut corners and milk customers for money. He in good faith
and conscience could not do that to the customers he respected and had to be
honest with. Now he is the service manager at a GM dealership and I plan to
contact him about finding where he works and possibly taking my Outback
there for service.

Now with all of this in mind, when I took my Outback in for servicing
yesterday of the CV boots which was getting close to critical, I had this
growing doubts in mind of quality of service with the new service advisor.
I dropped off my outback at 9:30am and didn't recieve it until close to
5:00pm that afternoon. While I understand that sometimes things get busy
and work may not start on time, but I had an appointment for that time for
over a week with a promies that it'd be done in around 3.5-4hrs. Even
though it wasn't completed on time, I didn't find that to be the issue.
When I went in to pick it up I was hit with a total bill of $397.76. The 2
CV boots ran $23.16 total with 150 grams of grease running $25.90. The
labor itself was $320.00. There was a misc charge of $25.00 for HazMat
disposal of the old grease.

$320 seems high and $25 hazmat is ridiculus.

My question to everyone is, is the process of replacing CV boots so
extensive that it would cost $320 in labor??

Also one final question. When I went in to pick it up, the service advisor
was a bit nervous (I could tell in his demeanor) because he had notes
written down that said I need *alot* more work done to the vehicle. He said
the rear brakes were near gone and that the rotors and pads would need to be
replaced now or otherwise they'd grind and the calipers would need to be
replaced. His estimated charge - $450. He said thd rive belts would need
to be replaced at a cost of $115. They did find a pinhole leak in the
radiator hose and rather than wanting to just replace that hose, kept
suggesting I get all heater/radiator hoses done at a total of $365. Along
with replacing the battery at $45, service the differential at $95, and
brake fluid flush of $100. If I said yes to that and let them keep it as he
seemed to be nerviously pushing for, it would have been at LEAST an
additional $1100.

Brake work seems a little high. I've never had to
replace the rotors on my Outback and it has 124k miles
on it. I can't believe that worn out pads would
destroy the calipers. Worn out pads would make an
ungodly noise, forcing you to fix them before the
calipers were damaged.

I said no thanks and asked what it would cost just to replace the radiator
hose, the service advisor paused nerviously fingering over a paper and said
"I really don't know, let me check" and walked back off into a room out of
the main garage area. He was gone for about 5 minutes, came back and said
$90 for the hose + labor. I almost got the feeling that this guy was being
told or pushed to try and milk me for money and he had to go back and
confirm this with a service manager.

Here is the kicker. I had it in for an oil change last month and with that
oil change they spent an hour doing a multi-point inspection. NOTHING was
found to be critical other than the CV boots. Brakes were good, and
everything else on there list was good. They did make note at thetime that
the tires should be replaced before winter, but I've known that and plan to
take care of that in August. While I have no problem paying good money for
parts to be serviced and replaced when there is a legit need for it, I get
irked really bad by someone trying to rip me.

Please tell me your thoughts. Was the labor for the CV boots too much? I
glanced at the brake rotors on the front and rear brakes and both looked the
same. When I had a WV inspection in January, the guy said I had really
great brakes. That makes me feel like the dealership is trying to rip me a
new one. I plan on taking the tire off today and inspecting them myself.

This is why I either do all my own work or take the
car to an honest independent repair guy. You know
that the dealership is trying to run up repair bills.
You probably also know it's time to look around for
a new service shop.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Hello all,

I wanted to run a current situation past the experts on here to get your
thoughts. For 10 years my momhas been taking her `95 legacy to the
Ford/Mazda/Subaru Dealership's service department for service. So naturally
when I purchased my `01 Outback in December of this past year, I took mine
there as well. The main reason why I did this was because our service
advisor was a guy I truely trust and who is a computer customer of my
business. So there is a well earned personal and professional trust that
extends both ways. This was put to the test this past January when this
service advisor said my mom's ABS brake pump was leaking and needed to be
replaced. he said the cost for that pump alone would be in the $1500+ range
with labor and all costs exceeding $2200. Knowing my mom isn't the richest
person in the world, he suggested I find an ABS pump out of a wrecked Subaru
and bring it in and they'd use it. I've never seen any other service
advisor go out of their way and do that. In the end, I spent $110 at a
salvage yard for one of those, and her final cost was $300 including labor
to have it fxed.

Well two months ago this service advisor along with SIX other fellow
co-workers quit. I talked to this guy as a customer of mine and he
explained that the service manager was putting pressure on the advisors and
mechanic's to cut corners and milk customers for money. He in good faith
and conscience could not do that to the customers he respected and had to be
honest with. Now he is the service manager at a GM dealership and I plan to
contact him about finding where he works and possibly taking my Outback
there for service.

Now with all of this in mind, when I took my Outback in for servicing
yesterday of the CV boots which was getting close to critical, I had this
growing doubts in mind of quality of service with the new service advisor.
I dropped off my outback at 9:30am and didn't recieve it until close to
5:00pm that afternoon. While I understand that sometimes things get busy
and work may not start on time, but I had an appointment for that time for
over a week with a promies that it'd be done in around 3.5-4hrs. Even
though it wasn't completed on time, I didn't find that to be the issue.
When I went in to pick it up I was hit with a total bill of $397.76. The 2
CV boots ran $23.16 total with 150 grams of grease running $25.90. The
labor itself was $320.00. There was a misc charge of $25.00 for HazMat
disposal of the old grease.

My question to everyone is, is the process of replacing CV boots so
extensive that it would cost $320 in labor??

Also one final question. When I went in to pick it up, the service advisor
was a bit nervous (I could tell in his demeanor) because he had notes
written down that said I need *alot* more work done to the vehicle. He said
the rear brakes were near gone and that the rotors and pads would need to be
replaced now or otherwise they'd grind and the calipers would need to be
replaced. His estimated charge - $450. He said thd rive belts would need
to be replaced at a cost of $115. They did find a pinhole leak in the
radiator hose and rather than wanting to just replace that hose, kept
suggesting I get all heater/radiator hoses done at a total of $365. Along
with replacing the battery at $45, service the differential at $95, and
brake fluid flush of $100. If I said yes to that and let them keep it as he
seemed to be nerviously pushing for, it would have been at LEAST an
additional $1100.

I said no thanks and asked what it would cost just to replace the radiator
hose, the service advisor paused nerviously fingering over a paper and said
"I really don't know, let me check" and walked back off into a room out of
the main garage area. He was gone for about 5 minutes, came back and said
$90 for the hose + labor. I almost got the feeling that this guy was being
told or pushed to try and milk me for money and he had to go back and
confirm this with a service manager.

Here is the kicker. I had it in for an oil change last month and with that
oil change they spent an hour doing a multi-point inspection. NOTHING was
found to be critical other than the CV boots. Brakes were good, and
everything else on there list was good. They did make note at thetime that
the tires should be replaced before winter, but I've known that and plan to
take care of that in August. While I have no problem paying good money for
parts to be serviced and replaced when there is a legit need for it, I get
irked really bad by someone trying to rip me.

Please tell me your thoughts. Was the labor for the CV boots too much? I
glanced at the brake rotors on the front and rear brakes and both looked the
same. When I had a WV inspection in January, the guy said I had really
great brakes. That makes me feel like the dealership is trying to rip me a
new one. I plan on taking the tire off today and inspecting them myself.

Brad

There really are several questions here;

Do you 'need' all that work?

Are the charges high?

Is the work being done well?

I can say that the charges may be inline with dealer labor rates. The
'book' probably says 2 CV boots 3.5 hours/wahtever and that's what they
charge - even if the tech does it in 2.5 . BTW - if the boots have been
split for very long, you can expect the joints to go bad in the near
future and spen all that labor plus more parts again. Hopefully, they
were recently split and the joints well re-lubed.

The radiator leak (indeed the other items) can probably easily be
'confirmed' at another dealership or an indie mech. Subarus can have
serious issues arise from neglected cooling systems so definitely get
that looked at. SOON

Perhaps you friend who is now at the GM dealership would pass along the
name of an indie mech who has a good rep. with Subarus (likely he's
heard of some shops in the area that are OK)- send him some lotto
tickets or dinner coupons as a thank you. Or as here or at www.usmb.net
for a recomendation in your area.

Carl

 

[Marek Karcz]

Hello all,

I wanted to run a current situation past the experts on here to get your
thoughts. For 10 years my momhas been taking her `95 legacy to the

[CUT]
Hello.
I am new to this group so hi everyone, this is going to be a little long
story, but right on the topic.
They are trying to rip you, there is no question about it. You seem like a
guy who knows a bit about his car, your gut feeling should tell you they are
not honest with you. When I bought my 2000 Outback in February, I went to
Fitzgeralds dealership in Clearwater, FL for all wheel alignment because
tires were telling me I needed one. They did it for me of course but then
did their so called multipoint inspection and told me I had severe oil leaks
at spark plugs wells and recommended valve covers gaskets replacement along
with spark plugs wells washers and spark plugs and spark plugs wires. The
shop manager looked very concerned and made a big issue of it, wanted to do
it right away while the car was still in the shop. Well, the coincidence was
I already had checked all other mechanical components of my car by my friend
who is a car geek and knows his way around cars very well. I service my both
cars at his home garage and I trust him. He checked my spark plugs and seals
and gaskets and boots and all the stuff you check whan you buy used car and
he did not find anything critical. Dealership manager gave me estimation for
this work for about $650 which I said was ridiculous considering there is
nothing critical and I said to him directly I do not believe him and I was
going to get 2nd opinion (although I already had one). In fact I already
knew I had a very small leak in just one out of four spark plugs wells which
I did not fix still yet and the car drives fine (they said the car would
stall pretty soon if I don't do what they recommended). All I have to do is
with every other oil level check I take out the spark plug wire and check if
there is no leak of oil inside the well and there is none ever, it is just
sweating there and stays in the washer's crack. They just want to scare you
that your car will break so you buy the service you do not need. Well maybe
it works with old ladies and some older guys but not with the hardnosed
cheap polish bastard like myself. The junk I was driving back in my country
would not last here a month and would cost me a fortune to service if I did
not know how to use a hammer and screwdriver ;-). My advise is find a decent
car mechanic in small shop for regular maintenance of your vehicle and
simple repairs. preferably a guy you already know. Develop trust with the
guy so he will not try to rip you off. If there is anything he can't handle
he will send you on your way to dealerhip or bigger shop but with good
advise how to talk to them. BTW those guys from Fitzgeralds broke my
steering rod dust boot when they were doing alignment because I had it
checked before and it was fine and right after their job - tada! the boot
was ripped open. I bought the boots myself and had my friend replace them,
did not go to those idiots again and saved $$. The other story I have is
about oil change on my OB. Immediately after I bought it I took it to
Firestone shop (because is close to my home) for engine oil/filter and
transmission flush. My friend told me before to have them close my air
filter box because it was open at the bottom and making resonance (very loud
low sound) when accelerating, common thing in Subarus air intake in 2.5L 4
cyl motors, air filter box fits very tightly and if somebody is not familiar
with the car then the box is left open after filter change and you don't
notice it until the sound comes up (happened to 2 of my collegues that own
Subarus). Well, I told them that at the shop and they laughed at me like I
was an idiot and told me that it is closed and it is OK. I went to the car,
opened the hood and showed them that box is not closed at the bottom. They
made stupid faces and then the shop manager said: "but it is OK, it still
takes the air through the filter" (!!!). I said: "thanks, you will never see
me again in this shop, I am as good amateur as you are", closed the hood and
drove away. When I checked the oil level later, it was overfilled 1 1/2
inches over the FULL mark (on cold engine and flat surface). Fule economy
dropped to 16 MPG probably because of the oil overfill, it gradually
improves but I still can not get more than 20.7 MPG in city driving (15
miles one way commute to work) and got 26 MPG on highway after I drove 200
miles, total about 2000 miles like that with overfilled oil (did not have
chance to drain it yet). Today I get the oil replaced before it is due by
myself and fill the engine with the right amount by the book. I only go to
the other mechanics than my trusted friend when I have to. The only shop I
was satisfied with was Tire Advantage in Palm Harbor, FL. These guys sell
tires and do regular maintenance and repairs. They let you watch them work
on your car. They never tried to rip me off. In fact when I came with my
prior car for 30k miles service with the list of things to do from the car
manual they advised me what of those things I do not really needed to do
when not necessary and I ended up with much smaller bill than I expected and
certainly a lot of smaller than dealership wanted to charge me (over $600).
The car was fine for another 30k miles when I had an unfortunate accident
and totaled it. They did a little lousy work on my breaks though (did not
fix the warped rotor) but cheap, cheap, cheap. Recently had tire leak fixed
at their shop - again, let me watch them work, showed me how they balanced
the wheel (multiple times until balance computer showed 0 on scale), took 20
minutes, did it on my way to work for $13.65. Firestone charges $80/hour
labor for air leaks fixes! I bet the job would took them at least an hour.
Just apply your common sense and be watchful when you talk to the guys from
big car shops and dealerships. Do not believe their BS about how they care
about customers. They are there to make money. More money with the least
possible job done. Amen. Hope did not bore you to death.

Marek K

 

[Joe Kultgen]

Hello all,
Snip

Please tell me your thoughts. Was the labor for the CV boots too
much? I glanced at the brake rotors on the front and rear brakes and
both looked the same. When I had a WV inspection in January, the guy
said I had really great brakes. That makes me feel like the
dealership is trying to rip me a new one. I plan on taking the tire
off today and inspecting them myself.

Brad

Look at it this way. To replace the boots they had to R&R both front
axles, remove the old boots, then clean, inspect and repack the joints. At
least that's what it takes to do the job right. From what you said they
billed you book rate on the job but ran considerably over book time to do
it. Another shop might have saved you a few bucks billing actual time, or
they might have run into the same problem the dealer did and billed you a
lot more for it.

As far as the "to do" list goes, I have a good friend who runs an
independant shop and he informs me this is a "no win" situation. If you
give each customer a list of everything their car needs to bring it into
top condition pretty soon word goes out that you're a mugger in greasy
coveralls. If you don't inform them of a potential safety problem, you'd
better be training for a new career. It's only a matter of time before
somebodies surviving relatives sue you out of your socks.

I'm amazed they actually installed an ABS unit from a salvage yard. I'm
not aware of a dealership in this area that would risk it. You'd have to
go to an indie shop and half of those would make you sign a liability
release before installing used brake parts. Think about it. If it works
right, you're the one who saves the money. If it fails at a critical
moment, they're the shop that just fixed your brakes.

Having a major chunk of their service department walk at the same time is
not a good sign. It's a pretty clear indication that there are problems at
that dealership. It could be communication problems. The service techs
are in the best position to sell customers additional services, but if they
had good sales skills they'd probably be working indie. There's room for
legitimate differences of opinion about the dividing line between
"aggressive salemanship" and "conning the poor sucker".

The bottom line for the service manager is that he has to sell enough
service to cover his departments overhead or start looking for another line
of work. If a half dozen mechanics don't want to improve their sales
skills, the best thing they can do is walk off and lower his department
overhead.

The bottom line for you is that you're going to have to work a little
harder to find out what auto work you actually need, and how much you
should be willing to pay for it. Oh my God! You're actually going to have
to *SHOP*!

Later,
Joe

 

[Jerry Velumm]

Brad:

The only thing that costs more that Subaru
Dealer / Factory Service is Land Rover Dealer
Service. (I know as my Bro in Law was stupid
enough to buy a Range Rover in 2003 and
even more dumb to take it to the Dealer for
an oil change for $76.80 instead of paying
$18.00 at Jiffy Lube or a private garage)

Subaru Dealer Service is overpriced and IMHO
is also incompetent. I needed a new brake master
cylinder at just 7000 miles, which was covered
under warranty. If I had to pay for it than I shuddered
to think what I would have paid. That said the replacement
unit also failed in 2 weeks, this time however because the
"Subaru Factory Trained" j-o who installed it did it
wrong and the part failed prematurely.

That was 2 Years ago. I have not been back to Subaru
for ANY service whatsoever. (Phone calls placed to
Subaru Corporate HO to complain were responded
to by a letter saying that they could not help as each
Subaru Dealer Service Center was "Independently Owned
and Operated". (Translation: Don't both us at Subaru
Corporate with your problems, we only build cars
and sell them after which UFO - U f---ing own it)

Get your service done by an independent mechanic
you can trust Brad. Tell Subaru Dealer Service to
go to hell and next time buy a Toyota or a Honda
which are FAR MORE reliable cars and operated
by companies who stand behind and support their
customers AFTER THE SALE, unlike Subaru.

Subaru: Building crap cars and giving half-ass customer service
like GM did in the "bad old days" of the 1970's and 80's.

Subaru: The BEST REASON GOING to consider
buying an American Made car once again.

 

[Warren]

Brad:

The only thing that costs more that Subaru
Dealer / Factory Service is Land Rover Dealer
Service. (I know as my Bro in Law was stupid
enough to buy a Range Rover in 2003 and
even more dumb to take it to the Dealer for
an oil change for $76.80 instead of paying
$18.00 at Jiffy Lube or a private garage)

<SNIP>

Subaru: Building crap cars and giving half-ass customer service
like GM did in the "bad old days" of the 1970's and 80's.

Subaru: The BEST REASON GOING to consider
buying an American Made car once again.

My Outback has a "Made in Indiana" decal in the window! I think that
Indiana is in America and my Subaru was made there, so I have a car
that was "Made In America". Maybe you meant "deisgned and made in
America".

Just a clarification of your point.

Warren

 

[lkreh]

Subaru: The BEST REASON GOING to consider

buying an American Made car once again.

Sorry Jerry, but this is the BEST GAFFE I've seen in a long time. My
Subaru was built in Indiana. Yep, that's Indiana, USA.

 

[kaboom]

Sorry Jerry, but this is the BEST GAFFE I've seen in a long time. My
Subaru was built in Indiana. Yep, that's Indiana, USA.

**Jerry could always buy the all-American car, the Ford Fusion. Um, of
course, it's built in Mexico and Ford is planning on investing
billions in Mexico.

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/061706/loc_2006061702.shtml

What's foreign and what's domestic anymore? :::shrug:::

kaboomie