03 WRX MT fluid

[Michael Prosek]

Anyone use redline fluid in there WRX ? Which one MT-90, 75W90ns or
shockproof heavyweight ?

 

[mulder]

MT-90 is GL-4 rated and Subaru specifies GL-5. Some people do use it,
usually in combination with other fluids. Same for the shockproof which
Redline themselves do not recommend for use in street-driven
transmissions although many people do use it and claim good results. The
only GL-5 rated fluid out of those is the 75W90NS which Redline does in
fact recommend for transmission use.
If you have warranty concerns it may be best to stick with only GL-5
fluids, otherwise do plenty of research and make an informed decision.
There is plenty of discussion on this topic in the NASIOC transmission
forum.

 

[y_p_w]

MT-90 is GL-4 rated and Subaru specifies GL-5. Some people do use it,
usually in combination with other fluids. Same for the shockproof which
Redline themselves do not recommend for use in street-driven
transmissions although many people do use it and claim good results. The
only GL-5 rated fluid out of those is the 75W90NS which Redline does in
fact recommend for transmission use.
If you have warranty concerns it may be best to stick with only GL-5
fluids, otherwise do plenty of research and make an informed decision.
There is plenty of discussion on this topic in the NASIOC transmission
forum.

Slight correction. Red Line 75W90NS is **not** GL-5 rated. They fudge
with the part of the GL-5 specs which require friction modifiers for
limited slip diff compatibility. Red Line 75W90 (which Red Line only
recommends for LSDs) is GL-5 rated.

That being said, I'm using the 75W90NS. I was also using Red Line MTL
in a '95 Integra for years without any problems.

 

[mulder]

Redline does claim GL-5 ratings for both the NS and regular 75W90. You
may be right about the spec, but then Redline has a problem.
I used the NS for 50K, and in fact just drained it yesterday and changed
to Valvoline Durablend. Although I didn't have any complaints about the
NS for a long time, I now find that the shift quality is much improved
with the Valvoline. I think the Redline may have thinned or otherwise
changed over time causing the shift quality to be less than optimum
although I can't fault its value in protecting the tranny- when drained
after 50K of use, there was hardly anything at all on the magnet.
I also have used the MTL in a previous vehicle, that stuff was magic in
transmissions that could use it. Unfortunately the newer Subarus can't.

 

[y_p_w]

Redline does claim GL-5 ratings for both the NS and regular 75W90. You
may be right about the spec, but then Redline has a problem.
I used the NS for 50K, and in fact just drained it yesterday and changed
to Valvoline Durablend. Although I didn't have any complaints about the
NS for a long time, I now find that the shift quality is much improved
with the Valvoline. I think the Redline may have thinned or otherwise
changed over time causing the shift quality to be less than optimum
although I can't fault its value in protecting the tranny- when drained
after 50K of use, there was hardly anything at all on the magnet.
I also have used the MTL in a previous vehicle, that stuff was magic in
transmissions that could use it. Unfortunately the newer Subarus can't.

Before I hit my post, I went to the garage and took a good look at
my bottle of Red Line 75W90NS. Nowhere on the bottle does it say
that it is GL-5 rated or even meets the GL-5 standard. The wording
on the label is, "Recommended for API GL-5". The current Red Line
website says "GL-5 type". Red Line says their 75W90 is OK for use
in transmissions, but that their 75W90NS is preferred because the
synchros engage better without the friction modifiers.

It's much like their recommendations for MTL and MT-90. Those aren't
API S- rated oils or Dextron-II ATF, but are recommended in place
of those fluids in manual transmissions.

BTW - I plan on replacing the gear oil every 30K miles anyways.

 

[mulder]

From the "Tech" page on Redline's site-

"75W90 NS, 75W140NS - GL-5 lubricants which do not
contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials."

I'll have to go check a bottle of the NS more carefully.

 

[Rob Munach]

From the "Tech" page on Redline's site-

"75W90 NS, 75W140NS - GL-5 lubricants which do not
contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials."

I'll have to go check a bottle of the NS more carefully.

It is possible that Redline has not "paid their money" to API for
certification even though it easily meets their specifications. This is
the case with many Amsoil blends.

 

[Michael Prosek]

Thanks for the info. Does it quiet it down at all ? One issue i have is a
crunch going from 3rd-4th when shifting at high rpm's, same when
downshifting from 5th -4th depending on how fast i am going. And a whine in
1st, say i go over a speed bump in my apartment complex, leave it in first
and coast down to the next with the clutch in. And an occasional problem
going into reverse.

 

[y_p_w]

It is possible that Redline has not "paid their money" to API for
certification even though it easily meets their specifications. This is
the case with many Amsoil blends.

That can't be it. The API doesn't have anything like the "Engine Oil
Licensing and Certification System" (EOLCS) for gear oils. I think
all they do is publish their standards and let the gear oil makers
do what they want. There is no "donut" or other license for the API
gear oil standards. I'm thinking 75W90NS really doesn't meet ALL of
the API GL-5 standard because the friction modifiers for LSDs just
isn't needed in the transmission.

 

[y_p_w]

It is possible that Redline has not "paid their money" to API for
certification even though it easily meets their specifications. This is
the case with many Amsoil blends.

That can't be it. The API doesn't have anything like the "Engine Oil
Licensing and Certification System" (EOLCS) for gear oils. I think
all they do is publish their standards and let the gear oil makers
do what they want. There is no "donut" or other license for the API
gear oil standards. I'm thinking 75W90NS really doesn't meet ALL of
the API GL-5 standard because the friction modifiers for LSDs just
isn't needed in the transmission.

 

[y_p_w]

It is possible that Redline has not "paid their money" to API for
certification even though it easily meets their specifications. This is
the case with many Amsoil blends.

That can't be it. The API doesn't have anything like the "Engine Oil
Licensing and Certification System" (EOLCS) for gear oils. I think
all they do is publish their standards and let the gear oil makers
do what they want. There is no "donut" or other license for the API
gear oil standards. I'm thinking 75W90NS really doesn't meet ALL of
the API GL-5 standard because the friction modifiers for LSDs just
isn't needed in the transmission.

 

[Scooby Doo]

It is possible that Redline has not "paid their money" to API for
certification even though it easily meets their specifications. This is
the case with many Amsoil blends.

"Paid their money". Ha! $825 per year!

Yes, $825 per year. The cost of about 100 quarts of Amsoil's finest.

Testing the oil to make sure it meets the specs is the expensive part.
The actual API licensing cost is insignificant. The "extreme cost" of
API certification is BS that the Amsoil droids spewed here for years
to try to explain why their oils weren't certified.

Chances are, Redline and Amsoil both screw around with their
formulations too much, and are too cheap to test. Sure, they might
have tested some formulation in the past to ensure it passed all the
tests, then "grandfathered" or "read across" new ones to convince
themselves that their new formulations rate. But sometimes it doesn't
take much to screw up the performance of an oil.

You'd never catch me pouring an uncertified oil into an engine I cared
about -- especially if it was still under warranty.

 

[Rob Munach]

"Paid their money". Ha! $825 per year!

Yes, $825 per year. The cost of about 100 quarts of Amsoil's finest.

Testing the oil to make sure it meets the specs is the expensive part.
The actual API licensing cost is insignificant. The "extreme cost" of
API certification is BS that the Amsoil droids spewed here for years
to try to explain why their oils weren't certified.

Chances are, Redline and Amsoil both screw around with their
formulations too much, and are too cheap to test. Sure, they might
have tested some formulation in the past to ensure it passed all the
tests, then "grandfathered" or "read across" new ones to convince
themselves that their new formulations rate. But sometimes it doesn't
take much to screw up the performance of an oil.

You'd never catch me pouring an uncertified oil into an engine I cared
about -- especially if it was still under warranty.

I didn't say anything about annual dues, just the certification. Yes,
that is the expensive part. Regardless, Amsoil is superior to than
anything else you are pouring into your engine.

 

[Scooby Doo]

I didn't say anything about annual dues, just the certification.

The $825 "annual dues" IS the cost of the certification.

Yes, that is the expensive part.

So you agree that the testing is the expensive part, and that the $825
paid to the API for certification is insignificant. So why the
comment about "paying their money"? $825 is nothing. It seems to me
that saving money by forgoing testing is pretty risky.

Regardless, Amsoil is superior to than
anything else you are pouring into your engine.

How do you know, if it isn't tested?

Oh, I forgot. You read all the testimonials and the four-ball wear
tests in Amsoil Action News, right?

 

[CompUser]

So you agree that the testing is the expensive part, and that the $825
paid to the API for certification is insignificant. So why the
comment about "paying their money"? $825 is nothing. It seems to me
that saving money by forgoing testing is pretty risky.


How do you know, if it isn't tested?

Yeah, it is pretty thin, when you look at all the
hype, but absolute lack of certification.

Unfortunately, folks have absolutely unswayable
beliefs on engine oil. Oh, particularly the guys
that are making $$$ as "resellers" <rolleyes>.

 

[y_p_w]

Yeah, it is pretty thin, when you look at all the
hype, but absolute lack of certification.

Unfortunately, folks have absolutely unswayable
beliefs on engine oil. Oh, particularly the guys
that are making $$$ as "resellers" <rolleyes>.

Again - doesn't matter when it comes to gear oil. The API
publishes a spec. The gear oil maker/seller claims to either
meet the spec or not. The API is not involved in licensing or
certifying gear oil.

Red Line claims to meet the API GL-5 spec for their 75W90
gear oil. They don't claim the same for their 75W90NS gear
oil. This has nothing to do with any certification or
licensing issue.

 

[Jerre Bassler]

Amsoil must be doing something right because everytime they are
mentioned some people go over the edge. These people probably also
voted for Kerry. Get over it, Amsoil makes great products and Bush won
the presidency.

Who cares if we sell Amsoil, someone sells and profits from selling
every kind of oil.