2004 WRX Manual Transmission Fluid Change - Observations

[y_p_w]

Finally got a around to doing the change at just under 3800K miles
on the odo.

First of all, I got my Stahlwille 1/2-drive T70 Torx socket last
week, which fit the drain bolt head perfectly. I tried removing
the bolt from the left side behind the tire. I also did an oil
change later, and I realized that it would have been easier to
reach from the front. It took a bit of force to get the bolt off,
but when I reached the right torque, it just snapped loose, and
was easy to remove by hand.

The fluid looked to be really dark, and I could see lots of metal
shavings, even with rather low mileage. The drain bolt has a
rather strong magnet, and lots of black metallic sludge and some
metal bits were firmly attached to the bolt. The washer was a
copper, and I believe it was designed as a crush washer. I
couldn't find a replacement on a Sunday, so I turned it upside
down and reused it. It doesn't seem to be leaking, but I plan
on using a new one for the next change (maybe 30K miles).

I poured just about 3 1/2 quarts of Redline 70W90NS using a
funnel (with extension) through the dipstick hole, but it looks
like the level is just a hair over the full mark. I'm not sure
this is as potentially bad as a high motor oil level (oil can
froth), I'm thinking of using a turkey baster with some plastic
hosing attached (to suck a bit out of the dipstick hole); I'm
open to any other suggestions for extracting fluid.

It seems to be shifting a bit better now. I had a hard time
shifting into 1st or 2nd. I'll see how it does after a few
days.

 

[CompUser]

@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
(e-mail address removed) says...

I poured just about 3 1/2 quarts of Redline 70W90NS using a
funnel (with extension) through the dipstick hole, but it looks
like the level is just a hair over the full mark. I'm not sure
this is as potentially bad as a high motor oil level (oil can
froth), I'm thinking of using a turkey baster with some plastic
hosing attached (to suck a bit out of the dipstick hole); I'm
open to any other suggestions for extracting fluid.

It seems to be shifting a bit better now. I had a hard time
shifting into 1st or 2nd. I'll see how it does after a few
days.

I've been seeing comments lately on NASIOC about
staying away from synthetics in the MT. Did you
have problems with 1st & 2d before or after the
change to Redline?

Steve

 

[y_p_w]

@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
(e-mail address removed) says...


I've been seeing comments lately on NASIOC about
staying away from synthetics in the MT. Did you
have problems with 1st & 2d before or after the
change to Redline?

Yes. I asked someone in a dealer service dept when I had
something installed. He said it's fairly common for Subaru
manual transmissions to "crunch" going into 1st/2nd gear.

It's not buttery smooth like a Honda stick, but it is shifting
much better now.

I think that synthetics that are properly formulated for use
in a manual transmission should be fine. The biggest problem
I've heard of is people using synthetic motor oil in trannies
designed for motor oil as the fluid.

 

[ricardox]

Where did you order the socket from? Thanks! Does it normally take a month
to ship?

 

[y_p_w]

Where did you order the socket from? Thanks! Does it normally take a month
to ship?

I posted it in an earlier thread. I got it from Toolsource.com for
$21.95 + shipping for a Stahlwille 54TX-T70 1/2" drive socket. I
also got a torque wrench, which was in stock and shipped last month.
The socket was out of stock, but they kept me updated on when it was
expected to come in. Their customer service was very good - They
gave me the option of cancelling the order.

<http://www.toolsource.com/ost1/prod...900&mscssid=SEFW19LXC0TH2GDU00J74FSANRGQ4TUA>

** ** ** **

Here's a picture of the part next to a quarter:

<http://home.earthlink.net/~calvbfan/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/t70.jpg>

Most of my tools are Craftsman from Sears, which are high enough quality
for this DIY'er. However - I hear that the quality of Stahlwille tools
is perhaps the highest in the industry. For $22, it better be really,
really good.

 

[Ken Gilbert]

Finally got a around to doing the change at just under 3800K miles
on the odo.

First of all, I got my Stahlwille 1/2-drive T70 Torx socket last
week, which fit the drain bolt head perfectly. I tried removing
the bolt from the left side behind the tire. I also did an oil
change later, and I realized that it would have been easier to
reach from the front. It took a bit of force to get the bolt off,
but when I reached the right torque, it just snapped loose, and
was easy to remove by hand.

The fluid looked to be really dark, and I could see lots of metal
shavings, even with rather low mileage. The drain bolt has a
rather strong magnet, and lots of black metallic sludge and some
metal bits were firmly attached to the bolt. The washer was a
copper, and I believe it was designed as a crush washer. I
couldn't find a replacement on a Sunday, so I turned it upside
down and reused it. It doesn't seem to be leaking, but I plan
on using a new one for the next change (maybe 30K miles).

I poured just about 3 1/2 quarts of Redline 70W90NS using a
funnel (with extension) through the dipstick hole, but it looks
like the level is just a hair over the full mark. I'm not sure
this is as potentially bad as a high motor oil level (oil can
froth), I'm thinking of using a turkey baster with some plastic
hosing attached (to suck a bit out of the dipstick hole); I'm
open to any other suggestions for extracting fluid.

It seems to be shifting a bit better now. I had a hard time
shifting into 1st or 2nd. I'll see how it does after a few
days.

don't extract the fluid... better a tad high than a tad low.
remember, there is no oil pump in the mt5, so there's no terrible
danger in frothing. in fact, i don't think it's even a problem in the
first place, so rest easy.

it takes a few days to really get the gear lube in all the tight
spaces. expect the shifting performance to continue to change for the
next hundred miles or so as a result.

jm2c
ken

 

[y_p_w]

Just a follow-up:

I poured just about 3 1/2 quarts of Redline 70W90NS using a
funnel (with extension) through the dipstick hole, but it looks
like the level is just a hair over the full mark. I'm not sure
this is as potentially bad as a high motor oil level (oil can
froth), I'm thinking of using a turkey baster with some plastic
hosing attached (to suck a bit out of the dipstick hole); I'm
open to any other suggestions for extracting fluid.

The change amount in the owner's manual is 3.7 US quarts. I
actually drained a little over 3 quarts of the factory gear oil
(when I stored the used oil in bottles). Previously, I'd check
the dipstick with a warm engine, but long after the fluid had
time to drain back - the level was right at the full mark. The
manual seems to state that the fluid should be checked right
after the engine is shut off. When I did that, the fluid level
was between low and full. Anyone know if there's a preferred
time to check the transmission fluid level?

 

[CompUser]

<(e-mail address removed)>
, (e-mail address removed) says...> it takes a few
days to really get the gear lube in all the tight

spaces. expect the shifting performance to continue to change for the
next hundred miles or so as a result.

Ken,

I saw an old (nasioc?) forum thread where you
mentioned addition of a few ounces of
"synchromesh fluid"...what the heck is that, and
where did ya find it? Still feel that it was
beneficial?

Steve

 

[Mark]

Yes. I asked someone in a dealer service dept when I had

something installed. He said it's fairly common for Subaru
manual transmissions to "crunch" going into 1st/2nd gear.

Had the same problem with my 02 WRX. Don't let them tell you it's
normal for the "crunch" to happen. I keep on my dealers a** and the
finally found that the first gear syncro was worn. After they
replaced it, I have NEVER had another "crunch" sound.

 

[y_p_w]

<(e-mail address removed)>
, (e-mail address removed) says...> it takes a few
days to really get the gear lube in all the tight

Ken,

I saw an old (nasioc?) forum thread where you
mentioned addition of a few ounces of
"synchromesh fluid"...what the heck is that, and
where did ya find it? Still feel that it was
beneficial?

I believe "Synchromesh Fluid" is a special manual transmission
fluid spec'ed by GM and/or Chrysler. My guess is that it
contains special friction-enhancing additives to help with
synchronizer engagment. I believe Redline uses similar additives
in MTL/MT-90 and 75W90NS, as does BG with their "Synchro Shift"
manual tranny lube.

<http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/products/atf_synchromesh.asp>

 

[CompUser]

I believe "Synchromesh Fluid" is a special manual transmission
fluid spec'ed by GM and/or Chrysler. My guess is that it
contains special friction-enhancing additives to help with
synchronizer engagment. I believe Redline uses similar additives
in MTL/MT-90 and 75W90NS, as does BG with their "Synchro Shift"
manual tranny lube.

<http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/products/atf_synchromesh.asp>

Hmmm...ok, reading up on it. I'd love to hear if
anyone tried it and liked it (long term). Never
seen this stuff on the shelf...

Steve

 

[Ken Gilbert]

<(e-mail address removed)>
, (e-mail address removed) says...> it takes a few
days to really get the gear lube in all the tight

Ken,

I saw an old (nasioc?) forum thread where you
mentioned addition of a few ounces of
"synchromesh fluid"...what the heck is that, and
where did ya find it? Still feel that it was
beneficial?

Steve

absolutely, steve.

when i top off the tranny, i use the syncromesh fluid. i have very
good syncro performance, despite using the very slippery mobil 1
synthetic 75w90 mt gear lube. i absolutely NEVER crunch in 2-5, and
only when _really_ rushing 1st do i get a little chatter. cold
weather performance was much better than oem dino fluid too.

in the rear end the mobil 1 goes in uncut. it's nice to be able to
get my lube needs at the local autozone.. no having to hunt high and
low for some esoteric lube that costs an arm and a leg either.

fwiw, a lot of guys in the DSM world use the synchromesh fluid uncut.

hth
ken

 

[y_p_w]

absolutely, steve.

when i top off the tranny, i use the syncromesh fluid. i have very
good syncro performance, despite using the very slippery mobil 1
synthetic 75w90 mt gear lube. i absolutely NEVER crunch in 2-5, and
only when _really_ rushing 1st do i get a little chatter. cold
weather performance was much better than oem dino fluid too.

I thought one of the potential problems with API GL-5 gear oil
is that it needs friction (reducing) modifiers to make it
compatible with limited slip diffs. That's Redline's alleged
reason for the 75W90NS (no-slip).

The Redline 75W90NS I used is **NOT** API GL-5 rated; the label
says "Recommended for API GL-5". This seems to be similar to
their recommendation of MTL/MT-90 in place of engine oil or ATF
in manual trannies. Redline claims that the friction modifiers
in regular API GL-5 hurts synchro engagement. They have an LSD
additive for the 75W90NS, but I suppose they'd prefer their
75W90 be used in an LSD.

in the rear end the mobil 1 goes in uncut. it's nice to be able to
get my lube needs at the local autozone.. no having to hunt high and
low for some esoteric lube that costs an arm and a leg either.

I have a bottle of Mobil 1 75W90 for the rear diff, and yes - I
did buy it at AutoZone. I chose the Mobil 1 for the bottle
shape, which looks like I can fill the rear diff by squeezing
right out of the bottle. I'd need a pump (or maybe turkey
baster) for the regular Redline bottle.

Any recommendations for the rear diff? Any gaskets/washers/
sealants needed? I noticed some gray stuff that looks like a
hardened sealant around the drain and fill plugs. Any good
way to clean this stuff off?

I found that the best prices and selection for Redline in my
area (SF Bay Area) is at a place called Vic Hubbards Auto
Supply. The Redline gear lube was $7.69/qt, which is a shade
more than the $6.99 for Mobil 1 gear lube.

fwiw, a lot of guys in the DSM world use the synchromesh fluid uncut.

Really?

 

[CompUser]

@posting.google.com>, (e-mail address removed)
says...

absolutely, steve.

when i top off the tranny, i use the syncromesh fluid. i have very
good syncro performance, despite using the very slippery mobil 1
synthetic 75w90 mt gear lube. i absolutely NEVER crunch in 2-5, and
only when _really_ rushing 1st do i get a little chatter. cold
weather performance was much better than oem dino fluid too.

in the rear end the mobil 1 goes in uncut. it's nice to be able to
get my lube needs at the local autozone.. no having to hunt high and
low for some esoteric lube that costs an arm and a leg either.

fwiw, a lot of guys in the DSM world use the synchromesh fluid uncut.

DSM...you got me on that one.

Alright...is this the "Quaker State Synchromesh"
Fluid that y_p_w mentioned? Does it come in
"weights"?

Steve

 

[Ken Gilbert]

@posting.google.com>, (e-mail address removed)
says...


DSM...you got me on that one.

Alright...is this the "Quaker State Synchromesh"
Fluid that y_p_w mentioned? Does it come in
"weights"?

Steve

dsm diamond star motors, the joint mitsubishi/chrystler venture that
produced the eclipse/talon/laser lineup... another turbocharged 2
liter awd platform that tends to munch up drivetrain parts.

personally i have never used quaker state's version of the
synchromesh, only pennzoil's. it only comes in one weight.

ken

 

[Ken Gilbert]

I thought one of the potential problems with API GL-5 gear oil

is that it needs friction (reducing) modifiers to make it
compatible with limited slip diffs. That's Redline's alleged
reason for the 75W90NS (no-slip).

The Redline 75W90NS I used is **NOT** API GL-5 rated; the label
says "Recommended for API GL-5". This seems to be similar to
their recommendation of MTL/MT-90 in place of engine oil or ATF
in manual trannies. Redline claims that the friction modifiers
in regular API GL-5 hurts synchro engagement. They have an LSD
additive for the 75W90NS, but I suppose they'd prefer their
75W90 be used in an LSD.

cobb has some good info here: http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/gearoil/

I have a bottle of Mobil 1 75W90 for the rear diff, and yes - I
did buy it at AutoZone. I chose the Mobil 1 for the bottle
shape, which looks like I can fill the rear diff by squeezing
right out of the bottle. I'd need a pump (or maybe turkey
baster) for the regular Redline bottle.

yes i didn't need any hoses or pumps to change the rear diff fluid...
i ended up with a mobil 1 bottle that i squeezed like a tube of
toothpaste, rolling from the bottom and flattening as i went up.
worked fine.

Any recommendations for the rear diff? Any gaskets/washers/
sealants needed? I noticed some gray stuff that looks like a
hardened sealant around the drain and fill plugs. Any good
way to clean this stuff off?

get a good long breaker bar or rachet wrench for the plugs.. they're
on "factory tight." i'm skinny so i just backed up onto a pair of
2x8's which provided more than enough clearance to wiggle under the
back of the car. you do not need to take off anything that's on there
well, but it's a good idea to take a brush to the area to remove loose
dirt to insure none gets in there as you've got the plugs out.

HINT: remove the TOP plug first... they're tough to crack open
sometimes, and if you take the bottom one out the fluid will be
drained and then you HAVE TO get that top one out, no matter what,
before you can drive the car. if you fail at the top plug first at
least you can continue using the car!

hth
ken

 

[y_p_w]

@posting.google.com>, (e-mail address removed)
says...


DSM...you got me on that one.

Alright...is this the "Quaker State Synchromesh"
Fluid that y_p_w mentioned? Does it come in
"weights"?

Pennzoil seems to be the one I've seen in stores - Pennzoil and QS are
now in some marketing agreement with Shell. There may be other
aftermarket makers of Synchromesh fluid.

Here's two ACDelco parts:

Part 10-4006
88900333
Synchromesh Transmission Fluid

* Partially synthetic
* Excellent lubrication properties
* High-and-low temperature-resistant
* For manual transmissions

Part 10-4014
88900399
Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid (Friction Modified)

* Contains a semi-synthetic lubricant compatible for use
in NV 1500 transmissions
* Reduces transmission component wear

<http://www.acdelco.com/html/pi_vehcare_lub.htm>

It looks like they have the two synchromesh fluids, a 5W30
manual transmission fluid, a limited slip diff additive, and
two rear axle lubes.

 

[CompUser]

dsm diamond star motors, the joint mitsubishi/chrystler venture that
produced the eclipse/talon/laser lineup... another turbocharged 2
liter awd platform that tends to munch up drivetrain parts.

personally i have never used quaker state's version of the
synchromesh, only pennzoil's. it only comes in one weight.

Ken & Y_P_W,

Thanks, I'm gonna take a look for some of this at
Autozone..

Steve

 

[CW]

Price per quart for synchromesh goes way down if you buy a bucket!

Here's where I got my stuff.

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/oilstore/pensyn5gal.html

CW