Possible current leak with ignition off?

[y_p_w]

2004 WRX sedan. Symptoms are poor starts sometimes necessitating a
jump start. Feels a lot like the times where the map light or parking
light was left on overnight.

Originally I thought it might be a weak (OEM maintainable) battery and
that adding distilled water would help.

The one thing I noticed is that the odometer and trip odometer is on
all the time, although I didn't recall if that was the case before.
I'm looking at photos of other WRXs and that seems to be normal.

I thought that maybe something is drawing current enough that the
battery is low overnight.

Or maybe my battery is just shot after 5+ years. I'm not sure what
would change from just the day before when I didn't notice anything
unusual.

 

[Tony Hwang]

2004 WRX sedan. Symptoms are poor starts sometimes necessitating a
jump start. Feels a lot like the times where the map light or parking
light was left on overnight.

Originally I thought it might be a weak (OEM maintainable) battery and
that adding distilled water would help.

The one thing I noticed is that the odometer and trip odometer is on
all the time, although I didn't recall if that was the case before.
I'm looking at photos of other WRXs and that seems to be normal.

I thought that maybe something is drawing current enough that the
battery is low overnight.

Or maybe my battery is just shot after 5+ years. I'm not sure what
would change from just the day before when I didn't notice anything
unusual.

Hi,
First thing to do is clean out the engine bay with degreaser.
Pick a sunny day and power wash and dry out.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

2004 WRX sedan. Symptoms are poor starts sometimes necessitating a
jump start. Feels a lot like the times where the map light or parking
light was left on overnight.

Originally I thought it might be a weak (OEM maintainable) battery and
that adding distilled water would help.

The one thing I noticed is that the odometer and trip odometer is on
all the time, although I didn't recall if that was the case before.
I'm looking at photos of other WRXs and that seems to be normal.

I thought that maybe something is drawing current enough that the
battery is low overnight.

Or maybe my battery is just shot after 5+ years. I'm not sure what
would change from just the day before when I didn't notice anything
unusual.

Dunno where you live but here in the south - 2.5 to 3 years is about
average for a battery.

wait, somewhere ther's a map.....

http://media.photobucket.com/image/interstate battery life map/lkbum/lifemap.jpg

Carl

 

[y_p_w]

Dunno where you live but here in the south - 2.5 to 3 years is about
average for a battery.

I heard that maintainable batteries were often preferred in hot
climates. Something about maybe getting a year more out of a battery
that would otherwise be lost via evaporation of the water. I do live
in a mild climate although occasionally I've taken it to hot climates.

So I went out to Costco and bought a new one. Not maintainable like
the OEM battery, but I'm not sure where to find one. Starts well.

I'm still not quite sure why it went from working well to just dying.
Maybe one time too many where the map light was left on overnight.

 

[nobody >]

I heard that maintainable batteries were often preferred in hot
climates. Something about maybe getting a year more out of a battery
that would otherwise be lost via evaporation of the water. I do live
in a mild climate although occasionally I've taken it to hot climates.

Heat does kill off batteries, that's why some cars now have heat
shielding or venting for airflow around the battery. But, that's only in
some cases and uses (one is Ford Crown Vics with the full police
interceptor package) where the underhood temperature is excessive to
start with.

I racked my brain for something solid to back this up, as I remember
seeing 150-200 deg F (somewhere in my past) as somewhat normal underhood
temperature, with "excessive" starting at 200. Unfortunately, my
Google-Fu isn't working well tonite, I couldn't find a website cite to
back that up.

But I did find this little gem:
(well worth saving on your hard drive, it's less than 6 mb)

http://www.batteryminders.com/batte...tarter-battery-frequently-asked-questions.pdf

The author also states that maintainable batteries are preferred in hot
climates, but no definition of "hot" by a degree figure.

Same author cites a test done by Johnson Controls that found the average
life of a "good quality" battery is 37 months.

So I went out to Costco and bought a new one. Not maintainable like
the OEM battery, but I'm not sure where to find one. Starts well.

I'm still not quite sure why it went from working well to just dying.

That same PDF has a section on why and how batteries fail, but it's a
little bit too technical in some ways and misses some basics.

Assuming that the charging systems is OK, most "just overnite" battery
failures are individual cell failures. When the battery gradually fails,
it's degradation of most or all of the cells. The PDF explains failure
conditions well but didn't really explain 'that' difference well.

A 12 volt battery is 6 individual 2 volt cells connected "head to tail"
(series) to total 12 volts. Each cell has to be in good working
condition for the whole battery to work. It's like those Xmas tree
lights that if one bulb burns out, the whole string's dead, or the chain
is only as strong as its weakest link.

Maybe one time too many where the map light was left on overnight.

"Mindfarts" do that. Been dere, dun dat. My (un)favorite is sitting in
the car, listening to the stereo with the key in ACC, then turning the
key to ON to open the power window to talk to someone, and forgetting to
turn the switch back to ACC. Damned DRLs (daytime running lights) do
drain the battery fast!

 

[Remco Weidema]

2004 WRX sedan.  Symptoms are poor starts sometimes necessitating a
jump start.  Feels a lot like the times where the map light or parking
light was left on overnight.

Originally I thought it might be a weak (OEM maintainable) battery and
that adding distilled water would help.

The one thing I noticed is that the odometer and trip odometer is on
all the time, although I didn't recall if that was the case before.
I'm looking at photos of other WRXs and that seems to be normal.

I thought that maybe something is drawing current enough that the
battery is low overnight.

Or maybe my battery is just shot after 5+ years.  I'm not sure what
would change from just the day before when I didn't notice anything
unusual.

If it does it most of the time, I'd disconnect the battery overnight
for a couple of days to see if the problem happens at that time as
well.Should the problem not go away, the battery is clearly the
problem.
Should it go away, perhaps leave the battery connected and start
pulling different fuses overnight:
If you have 20 fuses, start with pulling 10. Determine whether the
left in fuses of the fuses pulled were the problem. The second day
pull 5 of the ones at fault, leaving the other five in. The third day,
pull out three, leaving two in, Etc.
Once you determine what leg causes it, concentrate on all things that
are hooked to it.
I'd start pulling the fuses that all lights hook into.

 

[weelliott]

If it does it most of the time, I'd disconnect the battery overnight
for a couple of days to see if the problem happens at that time as
well.Should the problem not go away, the battery is clearly the
problem.
Should it go away, perhaps leave the battery connected and start
pulling different fuses overnight:
If you have 20 fuses, start with pulling 10. Determine whether the
left in fuses of the fuses pulled were the problem. The second day
pull 5 of the ones at fault, leaving the other five in. The third day,
pull out three, leaving two in, Etc.
Once you determine what leg causes it, concentrate on all things that
are hooked to it.
I'd start pulling the fuses that all lights hook into.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I realize that you have remedied the problem, but I'm sure others will
have this problem and might come across this thread. I like the fuse
pulling scheme. I have a quicker variance of that method though. Use a
multimeter (they're less than 10 bucks at most autoparts stores.) and
measure the current across all of your fuses. Some of them should have
current when the car is off, like the one going to the clock, or if
you have the door open while doing it, the one to the dome light. But
any fuses that have current going through them are on suspect
circuits. Tracking down shorts from there can still be difficult, but
at least you know what circuit it is on. You have to pull the fuse and
put the leads across the gap that the fuse occupied, or one in each
hole that the blades of the fuse go into.

 

[y_p_w]

I realize that you have remedied the problem, but I'm sure others will
have this problem and might come across this thread. I like the fuse
pulling scheme. I have a quicker variance of that method though. Use a
multimeter (they're less than 10 bucks at most autoparts stores.) and
measure the current across all of your fuses. Some of them should have
current when the car is off, like the one going to the clock, or if
you have the door open while doing it, the one to the dome light. But
any fuses that have current going through them are on suspect
circuits. Tracking down shorts from there can still be difficult, but
at least you know what circuit it is on. You have to pull the fuse and
put the leads across the gap that the fuse occupied, or one in each
hole that the blades of the fuse go into.

I have a cheap digital multimeter. You almost make it sound like the
movie "Apollo 13" where they're trying to determine the least amount
of power they can get away with using to get back, using an identical
rig on the ground. Being an engineer, the one thing I didn't
understand was whether or not they compensated for any temperature
differences that could lead to decreased current draw.

Again - I have the suspicion that it was just a weak battery that
finally gave up after 5-1/2 years. My other thought was that it was a
dying starter (where a charged battery might mask the symptoms),
although that wouldn't explain the weak sound of the "finder"
indicator after the car had been sitting for a few hours. It started
fine with a portable battery-powered jump starter (these things are
great) but after a while it gets inconvenient if you need it every
other start. The electrolyte level was fine, but I'm not sure if that
matters much after 5+ years.

 

[suburboturbo]

2004 WRX sedan.  Symptoms are poor starts sometimes necessitating a
jump start.  Feels a lot like the times where the map light or parking
light was left on overnight.

Originally I thought it might be a weak (OEM maintainable) battery and
that adding distilled water would help.

The one thing I noticed is that the odometer and trip odometer is on
all the time, although I didn't recall if that was the case before.
I'm looking at photos of other WRXs and that seems to be normal.

I thought that maybe something is drawing current enough that the
battery is low overnight.

Or maybe my battery is just shot after 5+ years.  I'm not sure what
would change from just the day before when I didn't notice anything
unusual.

While all this discussion of battery life is valid, I think it's a red
herring. The fact that your odo diplays remain on indicates that
there's a current draw with the key off. The LCD displays themselves
are too low to be the problem, but they're not on a dedicated
circuit. Remco has the right idea. Find out what else is on that
circuit and you'll find something else that's sapping your power.

 

[.._..]

I might start by simply looking for the most common culprit;

- trunk light on all the time.

Open the trunk, find and manipulate the trunk light switch and verify the
bulb goes off when the switch is opened (i.e. in the position it would be
when the trunk is closed).

Assuming it's not the "Subaru-Virgin" switch....

2004 WRX sedan. Symptoms are poor starts sometimes necessitating a
jump start. Feels a lot like the times where the map light or parking
light was left on overnight.

Originally I thought it might be a weak (OEM maintainable) battery and
that adding distilled water would help.

The one thing I noticed is that the odometer and trip odometer is on
all the time, although I didn't recall if that was the case before.
I'm looking at photos of other WRXs and that seems to be normal.

I thought that maybe something is drawing current enough that the
battery is low overnight.

Or maybe my battery is just shot after 5+ years. I'm not sure what
would change from just the day before when I didn't notice anything
unusual.

If it does it most of the time, I'd disconnect the battery overnight
for a couple of days to see if the problem happens at that time as
well.Should the problem not go away, the battery is clearly the
problem.
Should it go away, perhaps leave the battery connected and start
pulling different fuses overnight:
If you have 20 fuses, start with pulling 10. Determine whether the
left in fuses of the fuses pulled were the problem. The second day
pull 5 of the ones at fault, leaving the other five in. The third day,
pull out three, leaving two in, Etc.
Once you determine what leg causes it, concentrate on all things that
are hooked to it.
I'd start pulling the fuses that all lights hook into.

 

[y_p_w]

While all this discussion of battery life is valid, I think it's a red
herring.  The fact that your odo diplays remain on indicates that
there's a current draw with the key off.  The LCD displays themselves
are too low to be the problem, but they're not on a dedicated
circuit.  Remco has the right idea.  Find out what else is on that
circuit and you'll find something else that's sapping your power.

I started looking for photos of Impreza and WRX instrument clusters
with the ignition off. They all show the LCD display for the panel on
but with the backlight off; the backlight turns on with the ignition
in the on position. I guess the 2002-3 models had the speedometer in
the middle (along with the odo) while the 2004 model moved it to the
right. I also might have been confused since I've been driving a
Honda Civic, and that one shuts off its LCD display with the ignition
in the off or accessory position.

I will check though. However - I'm finding that everything looks
good. After 5-1/2 years I think the old car was about ready for a new
battery.

 

[y_p_w]

y_p_w wrote:
Assuming that the charging systems is OK, most "just overnite" battery
failures are individual cell failures. When the battery gradually fails,
it's degradation of most or all of the cells. The PDF explains failure
conditions well but didn't really explain 'that' difference well.

Quite familiar with that. I keep around sets of AA rechargeable
batteries for use in a camera. Some sets are unusable after a day,
and I can trace it to one or two of the individual cells suffering a
rapid demise.

A 12 volt battery is 6 individual 2 volt cells connected "head to tail"
(series) to total 12 volts. Each cell has to be in good working
condition for the whole battery to work. It's like those Xmas tree
lights that if one bulb burns out, the whole string's dead, or the chain
is only as strong as its weakest link.

I thought that series lighting was a thing of the past. It would
require higher voltage and of course there is the problem you
mention. I think most string lighting systems now just tap into two
power and ground wires.

"Mindfarts" do that. Been dere, dun dat. My (un)favorite is sitting in
the car, listening to the stereo with the key in ACC, then turning the
key to ON to open the power window to talk to someone, and forgetting to
turn the switch back to ACC. Damned DRLs (daytime running lights) do
drain the battery fast!

Let me just say that it's not usually me leaving the map light on.
However - I was the one who thought that the parking light left on
overnight wouldn't be a problem. That prompted me to get a portable
jump starter after someone helped jump my car with one.

 

[Dave]

I might start by simply looking for the most common culprit;

- trunk light on all the time.

Open the trunk, find and manipulate the trunk light switch and verify the
bulb goes off when the switch is opened (i.e. in the position it would be
when the trunk is closed).

My 1990 Mustang blew an alternator 150 miles from home (at night), so
I had Ford put in a rebuilt alternator (they had no new ones - bad
idea, should have driven home in the morning without an alternator).

The new alternator had a short of some kind in one of the windings
(probably solder), so on random days my battery would be dead in the
morning. I took it in to a local Ford dealership, and they yanked out
the perfectly good hatch light switch (there is no trunk), and charged
me $100 to not fix the problem. A few weeks later when the short was
gone, I replaced the perfectly fine hatch switch.

Beware of things you do not expect, and things which seem to be the
problem but are not.

The fuse box Ammeter (DVM, etc) idea is GREAT, but be careful about
your assumptions. The short may not be fused! The alternator and the
voltage regulator for example are not fused.

After a few weeks the short burned itself out, without frying any
diodes, and all was well until that alternator blew a diode a year
later. Replacing the factory High Output (!!!) 65A alt. with a brand
new Ford 100A alt. solved the diode blowing issue.

I suggest starting this procedure by disconnecting one battery lead,
and connecting the DVM across the gap. Do this with EVERYTHING turned
off, and the meter set on DC Amps. This will tell you the total draw,
which should be very small, but is probably close to 1 Amp if it kills
your battery overnight. Then if you find a 30 mA draw on a fuse, you
know that is not the problem. At that point I would ignore anything
below 100ma on any one fuse. (1000 mA = 1 Amp). You must do this with
a fully charged battery.

Do not forget to reset your computer and FI system after screwing with
the battery connections. I did once, and it trashed my injectors a
few days later with a backfire (that can't happen, I know - but it
did).