Outback/4Cyl Engine In Mountains

[Dick]

A question for Outback owners in Mountainous states -

Based on your experience, are you able to keep up with traffic on mountain grades?

Dick

 

[Jim Stewart]

A question for Outback owners in Mountainous states -

Based on your experience, are you able to keep up with traffic on mountain grades?

Sure. Just don't be afraid to downshift and rev it up
a little. It won't be nice and quiet like it is in
5th, but you'll do it no harm.

 

[D H]

mountain grades?

Sure. Just don't be afraid to downshift and rev it up
a little. It won't be nice and quiet like it is in
5th, but you'll do it no harm.

And in case you don't HAVE 5th (as in, a manual tranny), the automatic
will do just fine if you ask it to. I have two 99 Foresters (admittedly a
slightly lighter vehicle, therefore a bit more peppy) and I can easily run
with nearly anyone (within reason) and usually outclass the field on long or
steep hills. (I am not content to drop several mph on long hills as many
folks are.)
I do ASK the vehicle to deliver what it was made to, however, which
means I don't hesitate at all to manually drop it to 3rd gear if it's a long
or steep hill. One particular hill I travel frequently is a very LONG hill,
over 4 miles long, and if I allow the car to shift back up once it has
kicked down to 3rd, it will slow again. I simply drop it "manually" to 3rd,
either after it has kicked down on its own or even before that, to keep it
from losing the 3-4 mph it may lose before kicking down. Once down there
manually, I let the cruise handle it from there and it pulls the hill at
74-75mph as requested. This means running about 4200rpms, I guess, which I
let it do for about the last 2 miles or so if needed.
I can also usually milk the gas pedal, sort of an assistance to the
cruise control, just adding slight pressure to keep it still in 4th gear but
not locked out and not yet shifted down to 3rd. This allows it to finish the
hill without even downshifting to 3rd at all, in many cases. On another long
but steeper hill, I just drop it to 3rd as soon as I start losing any speed
(1-2mph) and then it handles that hill in 3rd quite nicely at the speed I
want.

 

[Guest]

We had a 2.2L Legacy wagon and traded it in for the 3.0L Outback, both
with auto trannys. A big part of the reason was because we live in
Boulder, CO and go into the mountains for skiing, hiking, and running
over bicyclists. IMHO, the Subaru auto tranny is miserable but my
wife had a chronic sore shoulder/lat when she had a manual tranny so
we had to get the auto. Point being, I found the 2.2L inadequate and
frustrating and the 3.0 is much better. Yes, the L.L. Bean is more
expensive, yes it's heavier, blah blah. Driving over 10,000 foot-plus
passes, we were unhappy with the 2.2L/auto tranny combo and testing a
2.5L didn't show enough of a difference to trade up to that so we
waited and got the 3.0L 6-cyl and have been much happier.

To answer your question more directly, I was constantly getting passed
by V8 jeeps/fords/pick-you-SUV unless I dropped into 3rd and kept the
revs around 4500 which I don't think I should have to do for a 5-mile
stretch of uphill.

Given all that, if you are happy with a manual tranny, get one cause
the auto is slow-shifting, has too-low shift points and is far from
smooth (compared to, say, an Audi or VW). If you need an auto, get
the turbo wrx or 3.0L 6-cyl engine.

 

[Alan Peterman]

We had a 2.2L Legacy wagon and traded it in for the 3.0L Outback, both
with auto trannys. A big part of the reason was because we live in
Boulder, CO and go into the mountains for skiing, hiking, and running
over bicyclists.

If you drive much in the mountains there's nothing like a turbo model. FULL
power at altitude. The Forester XT should be one of the best high altitude
vehicles available - and my WRX wagon is awesome up in the hills. Zoom!

 

[ct]

A question for Outback owners in Mountainous states -

Based on your experience, are you able to keep up with traffic on mountain

grades?

Yes...we do okay with a '98OBW (2.5l). Down-shifting is sometimes required,
especially when fully loaded (three/four people, as many bikes on top, full
cargo area and ski box), but the 6cyl. 4Runner (automatic) and Pathfinder
(5spd) I've been in didn't do any better.

Now, a supercharged 5spd 4Runner is another matter...that thing would
accelerate through 70 on the way to 80 uphill in fifth gear on I70 westbound
from Denver whereas the normally aspirated automatic 4Runner would be
shifting down and slowing down.

C

 

[James]

And in case you don't HAVE 5th (as in, a manual tranny), the automatic
will do just fine if you ask it to. I have two 99 Foresters (admittedly a
slightly lighter vehicle, therefore a bit more peppy) and I can easily run
with nearly anyone (within reason) and usually outclass the field on long or
steep hills. (I am not content to drop several mph on long hills as many
folks are.)
I do ASK the vehicle to deliver what it was made to, however, which
means I don't hesitate at all to manually drop it to 3rd gear if it's a long
or steep hill. One particular hill I travel frequently is a very LONG hill,
over 4 miles long, and if I allow the car to shift back up once it has
kicked down to 3rd, it will slow again. I simply drop it "manually" to 3rd,
either after it has kicked down on its own or even before that, to keep it
from losing the 3-4 mph it may lose before kicking down. Once down there
manually, I let the cruise handle it from there and it pulls the hill at
74-75mph as requested. This means running about 4200rpms, I guess, which I
let it do for about the last 2 miles or so if needed.

Ditto. This exactly what I do on long steep grades in my Forester.
The engine doesn't mind this workout, and I sometimes feel as if
"breathes" easier after this romp.

James
'03 Subaru Forester XS-P
'03 Infiniti FX35/AWD/Tech
Santa Fe, New Mexico

 

[Dick]

..that thing would accelerate through 70 on the way to 80 uphill in
fifth gear >on I70 westbound from Denver


This is the stretch of highway I had in mind when I asked my question.

I think that if I do buy an outback, the 4 cyl would do the job but
that I may be happier with the 6.

Dick

 

[Dominic Richens]

To answer your question more directly, I was constantly getting passed
by V8 jeeps/fords/pick-you-SUV unless I dropped into 3rd and kept the
revs around 4500 which I don't think I should have to do for a 5-mile
stretch of uphill.

Why don't you think you should have to do that? The 2.2l 4cy EJ22 engine
developes max torque at 4500 and max power at 5400. You have to be in the
right gear to get the power you need in at the speed you want.

Or are you saying the AT should figure that out for itself and automatically
keep it in 3rd? That I agree with. The AT has its own computer, you figure
they could programme it to figure this out!

 

[GTT]

fifth gear >on I70 westbound from Denver


This is the stretch of highway I had in mind when I asked my question.

I think that if I do buy an outback, the 4 cyl would do the job but
that I may be happier with the 6.

Dick

Dick, I decided NOT to spend additional money for the 6, then buy gas for
the next 150,000 miles just to do better on a 2 mile stretch of highway five
times per week.

If losing a little steam on a long hill worries you, try tranquilizers or
something!

 

[H. Whelply]

I don't know what the EPA figures are on on the Subie non-turbo 4 vs. the
H-6. I know on recent Honda Accords, there was a one (1) MPG difference,
both city and highway, on the fuel consumption ratings between the 4 and
V-6. Further, under some conditions--perhaps many--the 4 cyl. will be
working harder, and fuel savings may be nil. Between two different Hondas I
had, one with each engine, the V-6 at highway speed would be turning over
about 500 RPM slower than the 4.

Of course, the 6 cyl. engines will cost more outright, and you have to
figure whether or not you can afford that. But, for the slight extra
gasoline cost, I'll take that power reserve any day. Further, driving at
reasonable speeds (75 or less), and using cruise control, and no hard
acceleration, I easily got in the low- to mid-30 MPGs on my Honda
V-6---essentially the best of both worlds.

HW

 

[H. Whelply]

It took my 1966 34 horspower VW everywhere.
A 165 h.p. Subaru will take you anywhere too.

I think you had 40 HP. I had a brand-new '65 Beetle with 40 HP, and the '66
got a slight bump in cubic centimeters, up from 1,100 to 1,200 if memory
serves. Maybe you transposed your HP number and meant 43?

Sure, my VW took me everywhere (in potentially imminent peril, as it turned
out---that was a VERY unsafe car that you didn't want to be in for an
accident), but VERY slooooowwwlly. Except downhill with a tail wind, of
course, when I would stupidly drive it 80+. (Hey, I was young and REALLY
stupid, OK?!)

I kept that '65 for less than two years. Despite the slowness, it turned out
it wasn't all that great on gas mileage (maybe 22-24 overall), and those oil
changes every 1,500 miles got old real fast. I remember that and other cars
I've had, and think, "They don't make'em like they used to....thank God!"

 

[Subaru]

A question for Outback owners in Mountainous states -

Based on your experience, are you able to keep up with traffic on mountain grades?

Dick

It took my 1966 34 horspower VW everywhere.
A 165 h.p. Subaru will take you anywhere too.

 

[Mike Cook]

mountain

It took my 1966 34 horspower VW everywhere.
A 165 h.p. Subaru will take you anywhere too.

I've lived in the Denver/Boulder area and up in the mountains outside of
Boulder, never had a problem keeping up in a 2.5L OBW.

-Mike

 

[Verbs Under My Gel]

I don't know what the EPA figures are on on the Subie non-turbo 4 vs. the
H-6. I know on recent Honda Accords, there was a one (1) MPG difference,
both city and highway, on the fuel consumption ratings between the 4 and
V-6. Further, under some conditions--perhaps many--the 4 cyl. will be
working harder, and fuel savings may be nil. Between two different Hondas I
had, one with each engine, the V-6 at highway speed would be turning over
about 500 RPM slower than the 4.

Of course, the 6 cyl. engines will cost more outright, and you have to
figure whether or not you can afford that. But, for the slight extra
gasoline cost, I'll take that power reserve any day. Further, driving at
reasonable speeds (75 or less), and using cruise control, and no hard
acceleration, I easily got in the low- to mid-30 MPGs on my Honda
V-6---essentially the best of both worlds.

HW

news:(e-mail address removed)...

Yes, the elegant, transversely-mounted,
multiple-balance-shaft-requiring V6. I'll take an opposed engine of
_any_ displacement over a V6.

 

[H. Whelply]

The issue wasn't V-6 vs. H-6 or engines of any other number of cylinders. It
was six cylinders versus four, in general. That being said, balance shafts
or not, the Honda V-6 is a sweet engine.

HW

 

[D H]

Why don't you think you should have to do that? The 2.2l 4cy EJ22 engine
developes max torque at 4500 and max power at 5400. You have to be in the
right gear to get the power you need in at the speed you want.

Absolutely right. And the percentage of folks who know how to do it is
pretty small, amazingly. It's not that tough to do, but you have to get to
know your engine and know how to coax it to follow instructions.

Or are you saying the AT should figure that out for itself and automatically
keep it in 3rd? That I agree with. The AT has its own computer, you figure
they could programme it to figure this out!

I'll agree with this. Tranny should know enough to do it on its own.
Especially since it does know enough to transfer torque to rear wheels on
quick take-offs etc. Seems that a slope intelligence functionality would
help it hold 3rd longer once kicked down.

Dominic Richens | (e-mail address removed)
"If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"

As for me, I'm paying attention to the the previous idiot's remark about
running over cyclists. I hope he comes to my neck of the woods for a visit.
I have something I want to deliver to him.

 

[D H]

We had a 2.2L Legacy wagon and traded it in for the 3.0L Outback, both
with auto trannys. A big part of the reason was because we live in
Boulder, CO and go into the mountains for skiing, hiking, and running
over bicyclists.

Jackass... Come visit me, eh? I'll (RE)cycle you.
Ah, but you can't help it, can you? You're ignorant.

 

[Guest]

I agree so strongly that I'm looking for an '02 or '03 wrx to add some
go-fast bits to...

 

[Guest]

Point taken, this was a 2.2L 4-cyl, not a V8 so I needed to reset my
expectations or lock it in 3rd or get a bigger engine. I hated rowing
the auto tranny (see my original post for my whiny opinion on the
subaru auto tranny) and decided to get the bigger engine (we were due
for a nice car anyway). screw resetting my expectations