Experience with Internet Sales Managers

[Mark W]

I'm not sure if this is common but I have to share my story from
today. Well about 3 weeks ago when I decided for sure I want the 06
Forester LL Bean Edition I started contacting all my local dealers to
find who would give the best price. Well one offered the best price.
I was planning to visit him and actualy about a week later he called
me and offered me a lower price by $50 on a specific red model he has
on the lot. I told him I'd have to think about it. A lot was going
on and it woudl be another week or two until I can make it in. Then
about a week later he calls back and I told him I wasn't sure of the
color and he said he can get any color but if I buy the car on the lot
he'd lower the price another $500. It was a good price and surprised
me.

Well about 4 days ago he calls me saying others are looking at the
car. Am I still interested and I said yes. As well, I told him I
would not make it in until Friday and he told me that Friday is busy
for him. I shoudl come in earlier. I wasn't sure if these were to
rush me in or were true but I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Well today, Friday, I made it in. I Have to say I fell in love with
the LL Bean immediately. He had moved it around to the front of the
building and it was right at the front door. I peeked at it quickly
and walked in and asked for the guy. He right away told me to get my
insurance information and driver's license that he was going to go to
the office and get his paperwork. I realized then he had already
filled out all the paperwork, was ready for me to sign and leave. Well
I hadn't even looked at the car, inside it, test driven, etc. I don't
see who would buy without that. Well I did tell him I wanted to look
at it and test drive. He kind of didn't seem happy and almost got an
attitude but handed me the keys.

Well obviously I loved the test drive! I got back and looked around
inside it. I told him I liked it and he then offered for me to sit
down at a table inside. He comes with the paperwork and puts a piece
of paper in front of me and asked me to sign. The whole contract was
written up. Well he gave me no information. I had taken my checkbook
out so wasn't hidding the fact I was ready to sign. The thing is he
had gone lower on his price without me ever negotiating once. I
didn't know how much room he had to move so was planning on going in
and making $600 below what he offered on the internet. I honestly
figured that was too low. I expected him to say no and maybe if I"m
lucky lower it $100 but I had decided even if he won't lower it I was
buying. It had nothing to do with my decision, I was simply asking.

When when I told him my price he right away told me how I wasn't
following my committment. He said I had promised him I'm buying that
car and for that price. I never did and no one in their right mind
would commit 100% to price or a car without ever seeing it or driving
it. At least I wouldn't think so. He quickly told me how he's going
to lose $500 already on selling me the car at the price he quoted me.
Well I can't believe that. I don't see why someone would even sell it
then. I woudl think he'd sell another car or let another salesman
handle it. As well, he talked about how he is going to have to pay
$35 to fill it up with gas, $150 to wash it before it goes out, and
that's more out of his pocket. I don't know where a salesman is going
to pay $150 to wash a car! I just didn't like his attitude. I woudl
have rather him simply said no, I can't go lower, and I would have
written the check. Well I was actually ready to write it at that time
when he got this mad angry look in his face and simply said "I can't
sell you this car then" and stormed off. I mean it was like a temper
trantrum. He obviously left me sitting there so I walked off. I just
woudl think he'd be professional, get the manager, or something.

Well I drove home and an hour later the manager of the dealer called.
He just acted like he knew nothing about it and said he saw I had a
appt. today and was following up to see if my appt. went okay. I had
a feeling he must have seen what happened. I think he knew but I told
him the whole story above of what happened and how upset I was. It
was unprofessional and I had a check ready to pay and was upset by how
I was treated. He right away told me he would sell me the car for the
price I offered. I was shocked but he agreed to it with that being the
out of the door price except for taxes. I didn't think they'd go that
low but I think he realized how he lost a good potential customer. He
went on about how I would not work with this guy again, him or anotehr
guy woudl sell it to me. He asked when I can come in which
unfortunately isn't until Monday or Tuesday and he said he'll hold the
car for me. I felt he was upset with teh sales manager for losing his
temper and letting me go like that when I had a checkbook out. As
well, I don't know if he was just playing good guy and that's part of
their selling game and once I left decided to jump in. Either way, I
had already called another local dealership to ask about pricing so
will wait and see what they see but if not buy from this dealer.

My question, is this common practice for dealing with Internet Quotes?
I don't mean this entire situation but is the price they quote you on
the phone often the final and lowest price? I thought maybe people
price shopping on the internet are the type that may be busy and not
even have time to test drive so they are used to people from the
internet simply coming in, writing a check, and leaving. I was just
floored by the way this played out today and am disappointed I didn't
bring the car home but it looks like I will sometime this coming week.

 

[Victor Roberts]

On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 03:12:16 -0600, Mark W

[snip]

My question, is this common practice for dealing with Internet Quotes?
I don't mean this entire situation but is the price they quote you on
the phone often the final and lowest price? I thought maybe people
price shopping on the internet are the type that may be busy and not
even have time to test drive so they are used to people from the
internet simply coming in, writing a check, and leaving. I was just
floored by the way this played out today and am disappointed I didn't
bring the car home but it looks like I will sometime this coming week.

This is quite an amazing story. I've never heard of a
salesman getting mad at a customer request for a lower price
and walking away. I had posted a bad experience few weeks
ago where one salesman promised me a good price and then,
just as I was about to sign the check, the "finance manager"
came over to tell me that the dealership could not sell me
the car for that low a price - but this is the normal bait
and switch. Your story is a bit weird.

Did anything else happen that might have made the dealer
change his mind? For example, did you tell him you would
pay cash when he might have been expecting you to finance
through him which would have been an opportunity to make
more money? Or, was a used car involved in any way?

But to your other question - I would not be at all surprised
if the price given over the Inet or the phone IS the
dealer's lowest and best price. After all, they know you
are shopping around and would be at a disadvantage of they
gave you anything other than their best price.

 

[Mark W]

I had told them from the beginning I would be paying cash. There was
no trade-in at all. I was just shocked how this played out and never
expected it.

 

[daszkiew2000]

just buy a used car next time if you are paying cash

 

[Boris]

I had wonderful experience buying a new car (Honda Accord) through
www.carsdirect.com.
I think your problem: you yourself are a sleazy guy like a traditional car
saleman.
On carsdirect.com I chose the car and the options...price was listed right
away.
When picking the car at a dealer I test-drove it and then signed the
paperwork with their fleet manager (who didn't engage in any sleazy behavior
with me, because he isn't a regular car salesman).
It turned out I was charged for the insurance in case of an accident where
my car would be totaled and auto-insurance would cover less than the full
cost of the new car...I declined that kind of coverage when signing the
paperwork...a few weeks later I received a check from carsdirect.com with
refund for that coverage I had declined.

Boris

 

[Ray]

My question, is this common practice for dealing with Internet Quotes?
I don't mean this entire situation but is the price they quote you on
the phone often the final and lowest price? I thought maybe people
price shopping on the internet are the type that may be busy and not
even have time to test drive so they are used to people from the
internet simply coming in, writing a check, and leaving. I was just
floored by the way this played out today and am disappointed I didn't
bring the car home but it looks like I will sometime this coming week.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We recently went into our local Subaru dealer and, after agreeing on a
price, for a new Forester I gave him my Visa card. He asked was this
for the down payment and I said, "No, for the entire price." He (the
salesman) ran to get his manager who told me I couldn't put a car on
my credit card, like this was the first time that someone had done
this. I told him that: a) my credit limit was plenty high enough to
handle it and b) that they had never said a word about the money I had
been paying them, on my credit card, to service my 2002 Forester.

I told him that I would take my busines to one of the other local
dealers accross the river. He then relented and took my card which
bought me one hell of a lot of points and a brand new Forester.

Next, I', going to try buying a house with my American Express card.

 

[Mark W]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We recently went into our local Subaru dealer and, after agreeing on a
price, for a new Forester I gave him my Visa card. He asked was this
for the down payment and I said, "No, for the entire price." He (the
salesman) ran to get his manager who told me I couldn't put a car on
my credit card, like this was the first time that someone had done
this. I told him that: a) my credit limit was plenty high enough to
handle it and b) that they had never said a word about the money I had
been paying them, on my credit card, to service my 2002 Forester.

I told him that I would take my busines to one of the other local
dealers accross the river. He then relented and took my card which
bought me one hell of a lot of points and a brand new Forester.

Next, I', going to try buying a house with my American Express card.

I like that idea. Actually me and my finacee had discussed using a
credit card. She has a Discover for 1% cashback and a American
express. It's amazing what she has been able to pay for with it. We
pay it off monthly but the cashback is great. I just had the idea
they'd never allow you to do that but after you're post I'm going to
ask!

 

[Blair Baucom]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We recently went into our local Subaru dealer and, after agreeing on a
price, for a new Forester I gave him my Visa card. He asked was this
for the down payment and I said, "No, for the entire price." He (the
salesman) ran to get his manager who told me I couldn't put a car on
my credit card, like this was the first time that someone had done
this. I told him that: a) my credit limit was plenty high enough to
handle it and b) that they had never said a word about the money I had
been paying them, on my credit card, to service my 2002 Forester.

I told him that I would take my busines to one of the other local
dealers accross the river. He then relented and took my card which
bought me one hell of a lot of points and a brand new Forester.

Next, I', going to try buying a house with my American Express card.

I had a motorcycle dealer get quite upset at giving the credit card company
a cut of a purchase on a motorcycle. They don't plan ahead on giving the
credit card company 1%-4% of the profit with American Express being at the
higher end of that range.

Blair

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We recently went into our local Subaru dealer and, after agreeing on a
price, for a new Forester I gave him my Visa card. He asked was this
for the down payment and I said, "No, for the entire price." He (the
salesman) ran to get his manager who told me I couldn't put a car on
my credit card, like this was the first time that someone had done
this. I told him that: a) my credit limit was plenty high enough to
handle it and b) that they had never said a word about the money I had
been paying them, on my credit card, to service my 2002 Forester.

I told him that I would take my busines to one of the other local
dealers accross the river. He then relented and took my card which
bought me one hell of a lot of points and a brand new Forester.

Next, I', going to try buying a house with my American Express card.

I wanted to do the same thing with my Chase Subaru MC card (for the
Subaru 'bucks') but they wouldn't put more that 1/4 thr price - I guess
they were concerned about a charge back or something. After I discovered
there was an limit to the 'rate' of points earning, I just charged
enough to get the max 'bucks'.

good for you sticking to your guns though!

Carl

 

[RST Engineering]

And I would have told you the same thing and stuck to my guns. By the time
you got through "dealing", the dealership, if lucky, would be making a
thousand bucks on the deal. To shell out $500 of that to a credit card
company is a sure way to go out of business. THe fortunate thing is that
there are very few of you with a credit card limit that high.

I've had people come in and tell me to my face that they wanted one discount
or the other and that "Joe just down the street gave me that discount right
up to the day he went out of business".

Capiche?

Jim

 

[RST Engineering]

And you don't for the instantaneous second, think that those of us who take
Discover and Amex don't raise our prices 1.5% for your 1% discount? What
sort of fools do you think you are dealing with?

Jim

 

[Ray]

Jim, I think that anyone who didn't adjust their prices to take care
of the MC/Visa/Amex/etc fees is a fool. But if two people come in to
your store to buy the same item and one pays cash and the other puts
it on plastic are you going to give a "rebate" to the cash buyer?
Hell, NO!!! Those fees are part of the cost of doing business.

An aside. I had to mail a letter this morning and my wife is out of
town and took all of our stams with her in her bills packet. So, I
went to the PO and bought a 39-cent stamp from a vending macine with
my Visa card. Do you suppose the USPS pays fees to Visa? I doubt it.
On the other hand if you pay your US federal taxes with plastic I
think that you have to pay a 2.5% "convenience fee." Sort of like
using Ticketmaster.

 

[RST Engineering]

Jim, I think that anyone who didn't adjust their prices to take care
of the MC/Visa/Amex/etc fees is a fool. But if two people come in to
your store to buy the same item and one pays cash and the other puts
it on plastic are you going to give a "rebate" to the cash buyer?
Hell, NO!!! Those fees are part of the cost of doing business.

You bet your sweet ass we do. We can't "ding" the credit card holder
(against their policy) but they don't have a problem with rebates for cash
or check.

An aside. I had to mail a letter this morning and my wife is out of
town and took all of our stams with her in her bills packet. So, I
went to the PO and bought a 39-cent stamp from a vending macine with
my Visa card. Do you suppose the USPS pays fees to Visa? I doubt it.
On the other hand if you pay your US federal taxes with plastic I
think that you have to pay a 2.5% "convenience fee." Sort of like
using Ticketmaster.

Only because the federal government could put Visa out of business tomorrow
if it felt like it does Visa not charge the USPO or other government
agencies a fee. Call it a payoff if you like. Call it protection money if
you like. Call it the golden rule (he who has the gold makes the rules) if
you like. Us peons don't have that clout, so we get charged.

Jim

 

[Bonehenge]

I'm involved with several retail businesses that offer discounts to
cash (or check) customers.

My fuel oil guy, and many of the FBO's I buy avgas from also offer a
posted cash discount.

The Toyota dealership that sold my '05 Tacoma's sales paperwork states
"stated price reflects discount for cash or certified check". So, in
other words, you're not paying more for using a credit card, the price
was pre-discounted assuming a cash instrument was involved. This
gives the dealership the option of voiding the deal, charging more, or
eating the fees.

 

[yngver]

Mark W (removeNoSpam) wrote:
(snip)

My question, is this common practice for dealing with Internet Quotes?
I don't mean this entire situation but is the price they quote you on
the phone often the final and lowest price? I thought maybe people
price shopping on the internet are the type that may be busy and not
even have time to test drive so they are used to people from the
internet simply coming in, writing a check, and leaving. I was just
floored by the way this played out today and am disappointed I didn't
bring the car home but it looks like I will sometime this coming week.

We did our shopping online for our new Forester. I got quotes from all
of the Internet Sales Managers in the area who had the car we wanted in
stock. No, I didn't assume that the price quoted was the lowest they
would go and when we went to the dealer to buy, we showed him the other
quotes and asked him how close he could come to the lowest one we'd
gotten (he was within a few hundred dollars anyway and we went to him
because he was the only one who had the color we wanted with the
options we wanted). He did come down, although he asked to make copies
of the emails I had from other dealers so he could "justify the lower
price to the general manager."

But I also think the Internet sales managers do *hope* that you are
just going to come in and write a check, and they assume you have
already been shopping around. All of them offered a test drive,
however, and even with the car we bought, although we had already done
test drives at other dealers and didn't ask for a test drive, the car
was sitting out front waiting for us to test drive when we got there.

I think this particular Internet sales manager was very unprofessional
in having a temper tantrum like that, but you did the right thing to
walk out because the dealer now called you to accept your offer. I'd
just chalk it up to another strange car buying experience and figure
that since you are getting what you wanted, you won whatever game they
were playing.
-yngver

 

[Mark W]

Well the saga continues...
As I mentioned when I talked to the dealer they told me they would be
emailing me a rundown of pricing that day. This is what the manager
told me. He kind of jumped in to call me on the phone to be the
savior, understanding about my bad experience telling me he would help
me, would meet the price I named, and I could come in that day. Of
course after I went in and was treated like that I wasn't going to go
in again until I had everything in writing. I told him I could make
it Monday at the earliest. Then Monday came and still no emails.
Finallly around 6PM I called him and was shocked.
First, he claimed he had emailed me at both of my emails I gave them
but I never received it. Second, he basically told me that they have
chosen not to sell me the Forester. He said even at the price the
salesman originally quoted me he was losing $500 and at this new price
he would be losing close to $1500. He said the salesman made some
errors in his math, that he for example gave a higher customer rebate
than Subaru is giving. Then he followed it up with saying that he has
no hard feelings (I don't know why he would. I would be the one having
hard feelings). Then he follows it up with saying when I buy a
Forester I hope to bring it in for service at his dealer. Now why
woudl I do that after how I was treated?
Well one of my original questions on here was if people thought this
was all a game or he was really jumping in to help. Well now I know
it is all a game. I think he knew what went on Friday but it was a
game. I do think he called with the salesman next to me that i dealt
with. That BS about him asking if I had been in yet, wanting to
follow up, etc. was all BS. He just wanted to play savior and then
offered me what i asked for to get me in there. I can guarantee if I
had ran in there Friday I would have gone in and quickly see that deal
fall apart. He woudl have had reasons it wouldn't work or add all
these fees to it to get me to buy it figuring I would since I had gone
in there like that. Well I wouldn't have and would have walked off
after having this happen a second time. I have to admit this made me
far more upset than the first incident. Maybe he figured I'd come in
later on the weekend or even Monday since I had told him I would. The
point, I had some extra appointments at work and I didn't finish up
until 6PM and expected to go in today, Tuesday.
Now I even wonder though what the original deal was like. He did
quote me lower than any internet quotes I had at the time, saying it
was the out of the door price. I wonder if this was true and if he had
a lot of fees to add. Like they say if it looks too good to be true it
probably is. As well, I wonder if he just figured he can beat all
internet quotes just to get people in the door. One thing as well I
know if people are fast talkers, ready to get you in without looking,
sign on the dotted line, etc. often something is wrong with the deal
and this is how he acted.
Of course he did say at the end he will still sell it to me at the
cost the salesman originally told me. I had already gone to another
dealer after it fell apart Friday. He did finally tell me he would
sell to me at the cost that the dealer quoted to me (the one the
manager later said he'd take) if I have the quote in writing which I
don't. Either way I plan to go back to the newer dealer today but I'm
wondering how I shoudl handle what happened. To me he has crossed the
line. I am wondering if I shoudl find out if there is any manager at
the dealer above him or even if I should go to Subaru and contact
them. Like I said I know how it is with pricing on cars and dealing
iwth some salespeople but to me with the manager acting this way it
went way too far. Any advice on how I shoudl handle this?

 

[Victor Roberts]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:25:51 -0600, Mark W

[snip]

Either way I plan to go back to the newer dealer today but I'm
wondering how I shoudl handle what happened. To me he has crossed the
line. I am wondering if I shoudl find out if there is any manager at
the dealer above him or even if I should go to Subaru and contact
them. Like I said I know how it is with pricing on cars and dealing
iwth some salespeople but to me with the manager acting this way it
went way too far. Any advice on how I shoudl handle this?

Why are you going back after the way they have acted?

BTW - can you tell us where this dealer is located without
revealing the actual dealership? This sounds too much like
the dealer I was working with in the
Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY area.

 

[Mark W]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:25:51 -0600, Mark W

[snip]

Either way I plan to go back to the newer dealer today but I'm
wondering how I shoudl handle what happened. To me he has crossed the
line. I am wondering if I shoudl find out if there is any manager at
the dealer above him or even if I should go to Subaru and contact
them. Like I said I know how it is with pricing on cars and dealing
iwth some salespeople but to me with the manager acting this way it
went way too far. Any advice on how I shoudl handle this?

Why are you going back after the way they have acted?

BTW - can you tell us where this dealer is located without
revealing the actual dealership? This sounds too much like
the dealer I was working with in the
Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY area.

Actually the only reason I was is he was the lowest price but i agree
with you. I am better off dealing elsewhere. At this point I honestly
don't want to deal with him anymore and just want someone at Subaru to
know.I am sure I'll do far better elsewhere. I was careful about
revealing too many details for reasons of slander, etc. I can say
though the place is in the Western Half of the US

 

[yngver]

On Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:25:51 -0600, Mark W

[snip]

Either way I plan to go back to the newer dealer today but I'm
wondering how I shoudl handle what happened. To me he has crossed the
line. I am wondering if I shoudl find out if there is any manager at
the dealer above him or even if I should go to Subaru and contact
them. Like I said I know how it is with pricing on cars and dealing
iwth some salespeople but to me with the manager acting this way it
went way too far. Any advice on how I shoudl handle this?

Why are you going back after the way they have acted?

BTW - can you tell us where this dealer is located without
revealing the actual dealership? This sounds too much like
the dealer I was working with in the
Albany/Schenectady/Troy, NY area.

Actually the only reason I was is he was the lowest price but i agree
with you. I am better off dealing elsewhere. At this point I honestly
don't want to deal with him anymore and just want someone at Subaru to
know.I am sure I'll do far better elsewhere. I was careful about
revealing too many details for reasons of slander, etc. I can say
though the place is in the Western Half of the US

If you complain to Subaru, what are you going to say? That the dealer
promised you a lower price and then reneged? I imagine you are right,
that the dealer was just trying to get you to come back in, but I'm not
sure what the manager's game is in terms of later telling you he won't
sell the Forester to you. I agree, I wouldn't go back to that dealer
under any circumstances.

It isn't always about the lowest price. A few years ago when I bought
my Honda, we didn't go with the dealer who gave the lowest quote
because we were both pretty sure he was lowballing. It was just too out
of line with the quotes everyone else gave. And I'd already heard a
couple of stories of that dealer doing a bait and switch. It can be
worth a few hundred dollars not to waste your time with a dealer who
will say anything just to get you to come in to the dealership.
-yngver

 

[Bugalugs]

Well the saga continues...
As I mentioned when I talked to the dealer they told me they would be

Any advice on how I shoudl handle this?


Walk away.

Why continue to stress yourself ?

You don't need A..holes like that in your life.