Coolant type for 2004 WRX?

[y_p_w]

I was formerly an owner of several Honda made cars, and there were
several dire warnings about using the improper coolant type - from
the possibility of leaks to silicated coolant plugging up the
passages or causing water-pumps to fail. Some people were practically
religious that only Honda-labelled coolant would do.

My coolant level has always been a bit low since I got my car, and
I probably should have topped off the overflow tank. I had some
left-over mixed green Honda coolant, so I just dumped it in there.
It wasn't enough to get it to the min level, but there's always
been some coolant in the overflow tank.

I went to a local Subaru/Ford dealer, and they only stocked Ford
coolants, including Motorcraft extended-life and a standard green
non-silicated Ford coolant. Their explanation was that they didn't
want to carry too many types and there was nothing terribly special
about the Subaru-labelled coolant.

I plan on changing the coolant at 30K mile intervals (as in the
warranty booklet) with no flush (just drain and fill). It seems
to be a rather conservative spec, and I'm surprised that Subaru
hasn't gone to extended-life coolants.

 

[Edward Hayes]

After much research on this and other NGs I decided to use Zerex G05
found at Pep-boys for my 2000 Forester. Now at 25,000 miles on the GO5
I have no complaints.

 

[y_p_w]

After much research on this and other NGs I decided to use Zerex G05
found at Pep-boys for my 2000 Forester. Now at 25,000 miles on the GO5
I have no complaints.

My concern with that is that it contains a small level of silicates.
I know people have beenb using silicated yellow Prestone for years,
but I still get the feeling that silicated coolants and small
Japanese radiators don't mix.

I'm thinking of just going to a dealer that sells the Subaru green
stuff. I was curious as to what others have tried. I understand
that most (before extended-life coolants) Japanese car radiators
are designed with silicate-free, but high-phosphate coolant in mind.
Phosphates are supposed to be fine corrosion inhibitors, but the
apparent problem is that they'll form precipitates in hard water.
I always use distilled water.

 

[Rick Courtright]

Phosphates are supposed to be fine corrosion inhibitors, but the
apparent problem is that they'll form precipitates in hard water.
I always use distilled water.

Hi,

I think you've hit on it right there!

For the first few years of my driving career, I bought into all this "my
coolant's better than your coolant" stuff. Then an old time radiator guy
got a hold of me about 35 yrs ago and told me, "Son, get regular green
Prestone, mix it 50-50 with DISTILLED water (his emphasis), and spend
your time driving the car instead of worrying." So far, his advice still
holds IME, with no coolant related problems using it in several
Japanese, as well as German, English, Italian and American makes.

That's not to say there's nothing to this different coolant thing,
though. I've had two problems directly coolant related over the years.
First was 30+ yrs ago when DuPont came out with a leak-sealing recipe
for their Zerex coolant (ok, so I just can't resist trying something new
in the lotions and potions dept.) That clogged both a radiator and a
heater core. It was taken off the market quickly in response to
lawsuits.

The second was when I tried Havoline's Dex-cool formulation (orange) in
my Subie, which has a ton of miles and always "weeped" at the head
gaskets. It actually started leaking enough to leave a spot on the
floor. Switching back to green eliminated the problem.

As for the extended life stuff, I'm "conflicted." Go over to most any
Toyota group and they rant and rave about Toyota's "special" red coolant
(just short of the religious fervor Honda guys sometimes exhibit!) My
Camry's been maintained exclusively by the dealer prior to becoming
mine, and it's had green Prestone in it as long as I've known of the car
(several years before I got it), changed once a year, about every 20k
miles. It's got almost 227k miles on it today, with no coolant related
problems I'm aware of. And I'd bet my quarter the dealer didn't even use
distilled water, either!

Best of luck with your particular choice!

Rick

 

[y_p_w]

Hi,

I think you've hit on it right there!

For the first few years of my driving career, I bought into all
this "my coolant's better than your coolant" stuff. Then an old
time radiator guy got a hold of me about 35 yrs ago and told me,
"Son, get regular green Prestone, mix it 50-50 with DISTILLED
water (his emphasis), and spend your time driving the car instead
of worrying." So far, his advice still holds IME, with no coolant
related problems using it in several Japanese, as well as German,
English, Italian and American makes.

I'm still wary about using regular Prestone. I recall it was from
one of their FAQs that I found out the reason why phosphates aren't
recommended by European automakers. European countries typically
use hard water from wells. Past a certain threshold of hardness,
the mixture will form precipitates. You'll have junk floating around
in the cooling system, and you've instantly depleted a good amount
of your corrosion inhibitors.

As far as Prestone goes, they haven't exactly kept the same formula
over several years and different ownerships (Union Carbide, First
Brands, and now Clorox). They probably hadn't developed silicates
when you first started using it. They've actually included organic
acid corrosion inhibitors for about 20 years. I'm not even sure
what's in their "mix with any color coolant" stuff they're
marketing now. I'm getting the suspicion that this is very
different than anything they've made in the past.

The thing about the Japanese carmakers that spec their own coolants
is that they insist on phosphates - even in their extended life
coolants. There's really nothing wrong with Phosphates, but
Prestone/Havoline/GM/etc seemed to have taken out phosphates from
the Dex-Cool formula(s) in order to make it some sort of "universal"
coolant for any number of different carmakers.

 

[Edward Hayes]

I've also read that high silica is bad on water pumps but low silica
is good. I'm now using G05 which is low everything and is I think an
HOAT type which is recommended by most European cars/Ford/Chrysler and
some if not all Japanese cars.

 

[Ragnar]

OK, do what I do. Look in the owner's manual and match the specs down
at the Auto Zone. If the manual says 5W30, API SL, then I get an oil
that has that spec. For coolant, if it says Prestone Orange with Berry
flavoring, I go to the Auto Zone and check labels on the coolants until
I find the one I want. Simple. Hasn't failed me yet thru 25 years of
car ownership.

 

[y_p_w]

OK, do what I do. Look in the owner's manual and match the specs down
at the Auto Zone. If the manual says 5W30, API SL, then I get an oil
that has that spec. For coolant, if it says Prestone Orange with Berry
flavoring, I go to the Auto Zone and check labels on the coolants until
I find the one I want. Simple. Hasn't failed me yet thru 25 years of
car ownership.

My manual says use "Genuine SUBARU coolant or an equivalent". I realize
that it may not be catastropic to use something different, but I can't
for the life of me figure out what's an "equivalent".

I can figure out what an "equivalent" Dex-Cool or G05 coolant is. I'm
guessing it's a Japanese carmakers' silicate-free and borate-free
non-extended-life coolant.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I'm still wary about using regular Prestone. I recall it was from
one of their FAQs that I found out the reason why phosphates aren't
recommended by European automakers. European countries typically
use hard water from wells. Past a certain threshold of hardness,

I've read the same thing. Which is why so many people recommend
DISTILLED water! The Europeans have made many advances in the automotive
world ahead of the rest of us, but to go thru all the song and dance of
redesigning the chemistry of coolants to work with cruddy water instead
of just spec'ing distilled water strikes me as being particularly
Teutonic: "Well, if it will work well with just four bolts, let's see if
we can make one with 20! And we'll call that superior engineering, even
if it doesn't work as well." (A two sentence case study of the demise of
VW, at least in the US?) I have a hard time believing they don't have
distilled water in Europe...

What's an "equivalent" to Subaru's coolant? As kind of a corollary to
what Ragnar says, I figure you can use anything the factory doesn't
PROHIBIT (as is the case with some diesel mfrs!) Even Honda doesn't say
you HAVE to use their coolant, they just warn you MAY not get as good
service from others (at least that's what the g/f's Civic's manual
says.) Besides, how many antifreeze factories does the world have and
where does one think the auto mfrs get their supplies? Methinks there's
a lot more advertising hype than science involved in much of this stuff.
The fact the dealer maintained my Camry w/ Prestone out in the shop,
while inside the parts dept sold the "Genuine Toyota" juice, and
considering the service the car's given its previous owner and myself,
speaks volumes to me. As does personal experience with many, many other
cars. OTOH, maybe I've just been lucky?

Rick

 

[k. ote]

[...]For coolant, if it says Prestone Orange with Berry
flavoring[...]

AWEsome.

 

[mulder]

I was formerly an owner of several Honda made cars, and there were
several dire warnings about using the improper coolant type - from
the possibility of leaks to silicated coolant plugging up the
passages or causing water-pumps to fail. Some people were practically
religious that only Honda-labelled coolant would do.

My coolant level has always been a bit low since I got my car, and
I probably should have topped off the overflow tank. I had some
left-over mixed green Honda coolant, so I just dumped it in there.
It wasn't enough to get it to the min level, but there's always
been some coolant in the overflow tank.

I went to a local Subaru/Ford dealer, and they only stocked Ford
coolants, including Motorcraft extended-life and a standard green
non-silicated Ford coolant. Their explanation was that they didn't
want to carry too many types and there was nothing terribly special
about the Subaru-labelled coolant.

I plan on changing the coolant at 30K mile intervals (as in the
warranty booklet) with no flush (just drain and fill). It seems
to be a rather conservative spec, and I'm surprised that Subaru
hasn't gone to extended-life coolants.

Here's a link to a relevant thread on NASIOC-
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504002

I'm using the Peak Global coolant, silicate and phosphate free. Comes
in a handy 50-50 premix so no need to add distilled water, just pour
it in. The new universal Prestone should be ok as well, I think it's
also available in premix form.
Dexcool is a GM formulation and should NOT be used in any vehicle that
did not originally come with it. It cannot be mixed with other
coolants.

 

[y_p_w]

Here's a link to a relevant thread on NASIOC-
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504002

I'm using the Peak Global coolant, silicate and phosphate free. Comes
in a handy 50-50 premix so no need to add distilled water, just pour
it in. The new universal Prestone should be ok as well, I think it's
also available in premix form.
Dexcool is a GM formulation and should NOT be used in any vehicle that
did not originally come with it. It cannot be mixed with other
coolants.

Prestone has made claims that they've lab tested their Extended-
Life Dex-Cool coolant to be compatible with various extended-
life factory coolants. I take that with a grain of salt.

However - there's absolutely nothing wrong with phosphates provided
hard water isn't used. The problem with silicates in any application
is that they will come out of suspension. That may not be as big
a deal in large American make radiators. If one uses coolant with
silicates, it may be a good idea to refill (and perhaps flush) every
year to get out the old stuff before it plugs up anything. Borates
are abrasive.

Also - the owner's manual instructions say nothing about pulling the
engine block drain bolt. I know there's got to be one, since that's
where the factory engine block heater would go. Anyone know where
to find it, and if it's easy to reach? I'm not doing the job any
time soon, but I'd like to know as a reference for the future.

 

[y_p_w]

Also - the owner's manual instructions say nothing about pulling the
engine block drain bolt. I know there's got to be one, since that's
where the factory engine block heater would go. Anyone know where
to find it, and if it's easy to reach? I'm not doing the job any
time soon, but I'd like to know as a reference for the future.

I was digging around for any info, and I came across this for a
2005 MY Legacy/Outback:

<http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Subaru/1083913200000_1101801600000_09-39-04/91.html>

This appears to be for dealer maintenance, but they recommend the use
of an evacuation/refill tool to speed up the process and eliminate
air pockets. It also recommends Subaru coolant, although I know that
some dealers just use whatever they feel like. I looked up one of
these tools, which requires access to shop air pressure to create the
vacuum.

<http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=12500&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog>

I've read some posts indicating that people here have "burped" their
cooling systems by letting it cycle with the rad cap opened. My
last car had an air bleed bolt near the thermostat housing. Of
course I could just let it stay and the air will eventually be
evacuate via the overflow tank (but how long would that take?).