Buying Advice

[don]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a
machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

 

[Frank]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a
machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

Personally, I buy new. I've heard my Subaru dealer makes more off
selling used Subaru's than new ones. Now is a great time to buy new and
you should be able to get 2-3% under invoice price.

 

[Catherine Jefferson]

Personally, I buy new. I've heard my Subaru dealer makes more off
selling used Subaru's than new ones. Now is a great time to buy new and
you should be able to get 2-3% under invoice price.

Seconded. The second-hand market in Subarus is *hot* and has been since
I have known about it. The new car market for all cars is depressed
right now, which means that great deals are to be had if you've got
decent credit or decent amounts of cash. I'd definitely look into a new
car if I were looking now. (Fortunately I have a dreamworth 1999 Subaru
that doesn't need to be replaced and won't need it for quite a few years
yet.)

 

[.._..]

Same with what the other posters said. The "used price" curve on Subarus is
almost flat. So the "drive it off the lot" depreciation either doesnt exist
(making a new one a better bargain) or works against you (increasing the
price of a good, reliable car).

Also, that age of Subaru has the head gasket problem, so you could very well
have to tack on $3k to fix that. Unless you have _PROOF_ the gasket was
redone at some point, at which case I might bargain hard and get a car that
age. DO NOT accept "the conditioner" fix, or anything less than "see these
marks on the engine and this paperwork says gaskets were replaced".

 

[Todd H.]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a
machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

2000 was first production year, so I'd personally avoid those.

The H4 has head gasket issues. Been there, done that.

Brakes are a pain in the ass on these cars.

Catalytic converter issues seem to be a sign of the age of these as
well. I'd get under the car and eyeball it.


Though it's true that used subies do seem to hold value well, which
makes it less of money saver buying late model uses ones, you're
searching for a 5-9 year old car. I'd say ignore those calling to you
buy new!

If you were seeking out late model used, I might suggest buying new
instead, given that you seem to be one who keeps a car a long time.
But when shopping for that vintage, nah, save yer money and buy those
used!

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a
machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

Our 03 Outback wagon with the H6 engine has been very reliable for us. I
think 2 a/c hoses were replaced under warranty. Everything else has been
smooth so far.

The 4 cylinders from that era may exhibit headgasket problems (I think
external leaks). Also, if the car has suffered poor auto-tranny
maintenance or run with mixed size tires, there can be AWD issues. You
probably know that however. But if not, pay a mech $50-$75 to check it out.

Carl

 

[M.J.]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on a
machine to replace it. I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

I would either buy something with the 2.2 l engine
like a well preserved Impreza Outback or wait for the
new 2.5 engine that is coming out very soon (see my
recent post titled _New fabulous Subaru engines coming
soon_). I dont trust the current 2.5L at all, it is a bored
2.2 that seems structurally weak, or at least it is
undermined, therefore better to avoid altogether.

People who bought these Impreza Outbacks seem to care
for them very well. Whenever I see an Impreza Outback
wagon from that time 2000-2003 it is in tip-top shape as
compared to the average other Subaru in my location
(Reno/Tahoe, Northern California).

M.J.

 

[M.J.]

I would either buy something with the 2.2 l engine
like a well preserved Impreza Outback or wait for the
new 2.5 engine that is coming out very soon (see my
recent post titled _New fabulous Subaru engines coming
soon_). I dont trust the current 2.5L at all, it is a bored
2.2 that seems structurally weak, or at least it is
undermined, therefore better to avoid altogether.

People who bought these Impreza Outbacks seem to care
for them very well. Whenever I see an Impreza Outback
wagon from that time 2000-2003

The last year Impreza Outback with 2.2l engine was 2001.

M.J.

 

[Body Roll]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on  a
machine to replace it.  I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

1. Buy new. Subaru is too complex piece of machinery to gamble
with a used one. Especially 6-9 years old.
2. Don't pinch pennies on turbo if you can afford it. I did and
regretted it:
modern crop of subaru naturally aspirated 4 bangers is VERY boring.
Poor gearing is the reason why.
As for a good deal on a new car that depends. If it's a desirable
model (fun car that is) I doubt you'd get much off the price.
though I see Legacy GT Spec B is about $2500 off the list
price on cars direct. Not a very popular car I guess.

In retrospect I should not have trashed FHI as much as I did.
I'm in a fairly cold climate now with snow and ice as far as meets
the eye and I got stuck numerous times (good studded ice&snow
tires notwithstanding). Soooo, I wish I had an STI or at least
an LSD on the rear axle of my current rear wheel driver.

 

[Frank]

1. Buy new. Subaru is too complex piece of machinery to gamble
with a used one. Especially 6-9 years old.
2. Don't pinch pennies on turbo if you can afford it. I did and
regretted it:
modern crop of subaru naturally aspirated 4 bangers is VERY boring.
Poor gearing is the reason why.
As for a good deal on a new car that depends. If it's a desirable
model (fun car that is) I doubt you'd get much off the price.
though I see Legacy GT Spec B is about $2500 off the list
price on cars direct. Not a very popular car I guess.

In retrospect I should not have trashed FHI as much as I did.
I'm in a fairly cold climate now with snow and ice as far as meets
the eye and I got stuck numerous times (good studded ice&snow
tires notwithstanding). Soooo, I wish I had an STI or at least
an LSD on the rear axle of my current rear wheel driver.

You'll never be hired as an ad writer by SOA

 

[weelliott]

I'm planning to retire my '95 Legacy wagon and I'd like advice on  a
machine to replace it.  I'm thinking of a 2000 - 2003 Subaru and what
to avoid is as important as what to look for. Any words of wisdom?

I think too many assumptions have been made. We can't assume that he
bought the 95 new, and thus has money to buy new again. It might be
true that new cars aren't much more than 2-3 year old cars, but what
about earlier ones with plenty of life in them. I'd much rather spend
5 to 8k on a 2000 to 2003 legacy than spend three times that on a new
car.

I think the original question was which cars to stay away from, or
which ones have proven to be great. Being that between 95 and present
day subaru has only made about ten different models, it shouldn't be
too hard to do a little research on each one, and find the common
problems with each, and see which ones you'd rather have to deal with.
The new cars will also have problems. I've had more luck with used
cars than many have had with new cars. New cars are too complicated.
So much to go wrong.

 

[John Varela]

Being that between 95 and present
day subaru has only made about ten different models, it shouldn't be
too hard to do a little research on each one, and find the common
problems with each, and see which ones you'd rather have to deal with.

The April '09 issue of Consumer Reports lists used car models to
look for. Quite a few Subarus are in this list, sorted according to
price range. Consumer Reports also lists used cars to avoid. There
are no Subarus in that list.

 

[Catherine Jefferson]

The April '09 issue of Consumer Reports lists used car models to
look for. Quite a few Subarus are in this list, sorted according to
price range. Consumer Reports also lists used cars to avoid. There
are no Subarus in that list.

There should be, however. You should avoid any Subaru model with a
first-generation 2.5L DOHC engine; they have humongous head gasket
issues due to bad design. That means avoid the 1997-1999 Outbacks and
1997-1999 (early model year) Foresters. If you have a good lead on a
1999 Forester, get your favorite independent Subaru specialist mechanic
to run the VIN number and verify that it's a late year model with the
second-generation 2.5L SOHC engine. I have one of those Foresters;
they're good cars.

In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback
Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the
Eveready bunny. ;-) I had one of those, a 1998 Outback Sport, which is
now no longer on the road only because a guy driving a '73 Chevy Impala
plowed into it. <sigh>

 

[Body Roll]

You'll never be hired as an ad writer by SOA

I think I can find a few new twists to sell STI and Spec B
The latter should be sellable now that Mazdaspeed 6
has departed (due to the miniscule demand?)
Curiously, I never saw a head to head comparo for
those two.

 

[John Varela]

That means avoid the 1997-1999 Outbacks and
1997-1999 (early model year) Foresters.

My wife's car and the reason I'm here is a '99 Forester bought in
the fall of '98 (which makes it an early one). It's ten years old
and hasn't had a gasket problem yet. Of course, it does have only
45,000 miles on it--and that includes one round trip from Virginia
to Utah and Arizona, which added 6,000 miles right there. (She's
the original little old lady who only drives it on Thursdays to
Pilates class.)

 

[Catherine Jefferson]

My wife's car and the reason I'm here is a '99 Forester bought in
the fall of '98 (which makes it an early one). It's ten years old
and hasn't had a gasket problem yet. Of course, it does have only
45,000 miles on it--and that includes one round trip from Virginia
to Utah and Arizona, which added 6,000 miles right there. (She's
the original little old lady who only drives it on Thursdays to
Pilates class.)

ROFL! Our late model year 1999 Forester had only 44K on it when we
bought it in May 2007. It had been a fleet car in a medium-sized
business for most of its life; I doubt it had ever been off the pavement
til a few months before we bought it. It now has just under 80K miles,
much of that off-road in sometimes-tougher conditions than this vehicle
really should face and without a hitch. It's a wonderful car; I
wouldn't give it up.

My mother owns a 1998 Subaru Outback. It has fewer than 40K miles on
it; she really *is* the original little old lady when it comes to
driving. I'm hoping that either she's gone or it's gone long before
the head gasket blows, but have warned her to have her dealer check it
regularly anyway.

I'm actually not a car fanatic or particularly knowledgeable about cars
in general. I've been driving Subarus since 1985, though, and them I know.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

In addition, the 2.2 L engines you find in the Legacies and Outback
Sports for 1997-1999 are wonderful engines that keep going like the
Eveready bunny. ;-)

But...but...why does mine have blown head gaskets?!?!?!

 

[Catherine Jefferson]

But...but...why does mine have blown head gaskets?!?!?!

Really? That's *interesting*. I think it's the first case I've ever
heard of that engine getting a blown head gasket, against a bunch of the
other one. Which model do you have? What mileage when the head gasket
blew?

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Really? That's *interesting*. I think it's the first case I've ever
heard of that engine getting a blown head gasket, against a bunch of the
other one. Which model do you have? What mileage when the head gasket
blew?

This is difficult to say. (Not the model, the HGs...). The car has 335,000
miles on it, but you'd never know by looking at it. I got it from the
second owner, who only had it for 2 weeks. He was going to fix it and run
it, but found his cancer had returned, so he gave it to me for $100.
Supposedly, the engine was replaced just before he bought it, and he
seemed to recall hearing the motor had 120,000 miles on it. It runs
strong, but after 8-12 miles overheats. We verified the BHG by chacking
for exhaust gasses in the radiator. The inspection station put the
tailpipe 'sniffer' in the radiator, we started it up and watched the
hydrocarbons going up to tailpipe levels.

I tried HG in a bottle, it worked on my '89 Coupe, but the break is on the
intake side on that car. I think I may have really damaged the headds on
the last test run, because now white smoke pours from the tailpipe and
from under the engine...

Decent engines are $250-400...probably cheaper and easier than doing HGs
on this one...

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Really? That's *interesting*. I think it's the first case I've ever
heard of that engine getting a blown head gasket, against a bunch of the
other one. Which model do you have? What mileage when the head gasket
blew?

I guess it WAS hard to say!

1997 Legacy "L" wagon, 2.2L AT. Nice car, except for the motor...