An actual car post...

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

1989 Suby GL Coupe, AWD.

Spongy brakes. I did the obvious and flushed/bled, but it didn't help a
lot.

I got a set of pads and waiting for the weather to clear. This car has
disc fronts and drum rears. When I did the flush/fill I was unable to
loosen the bleeder on the left rear backing, and didn't want to snap it
off, so that one is not flushed, but what came out didn't look too bad,
anyway.

One thing; the car has been siting since April, and the rotors were rusty.
After just a few miles the driver's side rotor came clean, but the
passenger's side just has a 1" stripe in the middle of the rotor. I'm
going to have a look at that caliper and see if it's stuck open, scuff the
rotor with a wire brush and install the pads and see what happens.

Too bad the rest of the car didn't stay as nice as the motor and
tranny...they're great.

And parts are becoming scarcer than parts for my Supra!

 

[hls]

1989 Suby GL Coupe, AWD.

Spongy brakes. I did the obvious and flushed/bled, but it didn't help a
lot.

I got a set of pads and waiting for the weather to clear. This car has
disc fronts and drum rears. When I did the flush/fill I was unable to
loosen the bleeder on the left rear backing, and didn't want to snap it
off, so that one is not flushed, but what came out didn't look too bad,
anyway.

One thing; the car has been siting since April, and the rotors were rusty.
After just a few miles the driver's side rotor came clean, but the
passenger's side just has a 1" stripe in the middle of the rotor. I'm
going to have a look at that caliper and see if it's stuck open, scuff the
rotor with a wire brush and install the pads and see what happens.

Too bad the rest of the car didn't stay as nice as the motor and
tranny...they're great.

And parts are becoming scarcer than parts for my Supra!

At some time or the other, you are going to have worry that bleeder valve
free (or snap it off in the caliper assembly). Usually, but not always,
you
can make them yield. I have snapped one off only one time in my life.

Since you havent replaced the pads yet. maybe you should free up everything
when you put your new pads on. If the old pads are sort of welded in by
rust, then wire brush everything when you put it back together to be sure it
is taught, but moving. I have seen new clean pads that had to be adjusted
to
the caliper mount.

Most calipers are not that hard to rebuild. If I were going to do it, I
would
do both sides. I would emery cloth the pistons and cylinders, wash them
out with methanol, and reassembly with new elastomers and seals. Then
flush like crazy.

Whether your old discs (rotors) are worn unevenly or warped will have to
be evaluated.

 

[Tegger]

1989 Suby GL Coupe, AWD.

Spongy brakes. I did the obvious and flushed/bled, but it didn't help
a lot.

Spongy brakes can mean a lot of possible problems. In no particular
order...

1) Air still in the lines. It can be difficult to budge stubborn bubbles
in the calipers without removing them from their mounts and using the
"turn and tap" method.
2) Aftermarket pads that are too hard. Requires excessive pedal pressure
to make them function.
3) Seized pistons somewhere. Makes the ones that do slide well work
extra hard.
4) Flex hoses that expand when pressure is applied. This happens when
fluid is not changed in a timely manner.
5) Other parts not moving properly, such as pads, pins, etc.
6) Rust buildup anywhere in the caliper assembly components. A Dremel,
Sil-Glyde, aluminum anti-seize, and 50-grit emery cloth are your
friends.

I got a set of pads and waiting for the weather to clear. This car has
disc fronts and drum rears. When I did the flush/fill I was unable to
loosen the bleeder on the left rear backing, and didn't want to snap
it off, so that one is not flushed, but what came out didn't look too
bad, anyway.

One thing; the car has been siting since April, and the rotors were
rusty. After just a few miles the driver's side rotor came clean, but
the passenger's side just has a 1" stripe in the middle of the rotor.

Then you have a sticky piston.

Here's a trick: Eject the piston far enough that you can get a Vise Grip
or set of Channel Locks on the piston lip. You do NOT want to span the
piston, but grip it at one spot between the outer and inner surfaces.
Now clamp down hard and turn the piston. It will probably be mightily
difficult to turn the piston, and the Vise Grips will probably slip and
gouge the metal, so clamp HARD. And have a file handy to clean off the
burr that will surely be created.

Then you need some silicone grease. AGS's Sil-Glyde will do. Then you
need a plastic syringe from a woodworking store, with a really big
nozzle. You clean off the rubber boot with brake cleaner spray, eject
the piston an inch or so, then inject Sil-Glyde under the boot with the
syringe. Now work it round and round, in and out, repeatedly.

Chances are good the piston will free up really nice. Unless it's choked
with rust and gum, of course. Eject the piston, pinch the boot, and look
inside to see how clean the piston is.

I'm going to have a look at that caliper and see if it's stuck open,
scuff the rotor with a wire brush and install the pads and see what
happens.

Don't scuff the rotor. Free the piston, then let the brake pads do the
scuffing for you.

Too bad the rest of the car didn't stay as nice as the motor and
tranny...they're great.

And parts are becoming scarcer than parts for my Supra!

That's one big problem with owning older cars that aren't considered
"collector" cars. I'm even running into parts unavailability for certain
trim components with our '99 Tercel.

 

[Tegger]

At some time or the other, you are going to have worry that bleeder
valve free (or snap it off in the caliper assembly).

Hachi's seized bleeder is in a rear drum cylinder.

Usually, but not always, you can make them yield. I have snapped
one off only one time in my life.

Then you don't live in a place that has significant snow each winter.
Leave them for a few years in that case and permanent seizure is a
definite possibility.

Since you havent replaced the pads yet. maybe you should free up
everything when you put your new pads on. If the old pads are sort of
welded in by rust, then wire brush everything when you put it back
together to be sure it is taught, but moving. I have seen new clean
pads that had to be adjusted to
the caliper mount.

Most calipers are not that hard to rebuild.

That's true for the fronts. Rear calipers that incorporate parking brake
meachanisms are wildy complicated and a lot more difficult to restore.

If I were going to do it, I would do both sides.

Agreed. To make sure both sides end up with equal characteristics. I'd
NEVER rebuild or replace just one on an axle set.

I would emery cloth the pistons and cylinders,

I would not. Run your fingernail down a brand-new piston. Does it hang
up or catch anywhere? No. Now run your fingernail down a surface that's
been emeried even with fine cloth. /Big/ difference. Any roughness will
result in a sticky piston, plus it will wear the hydraulic seal very
quickly. Emerying the cylinder bore is somewhat less objectionable,
provided it's cleaned thoroughly afterwards.

Clean off any gum on the pistons with solvent. If rust remains or if the
cleaned surface catches your fingernail anywhere, replace the piston.

 

[dsi1]

1989 Suby GL Coupe, AWD.

Spongy brakes. I did the obvious and flushed/bled, but it didn't help a
lot.

I got a set of pads and waiting for the weather to clear. This car has
disc fronts and drum rears. When I did the flush/fill I was unable to
loosen the bleeder on the left rear backing, and didn't want to snap it
off, so that one is not flushed, but what came out didn't look too bad,
anyway.

One thing; the car has been siting since April, and the rotors were rusty.
After just a few miles the driver's side rotor came clean, but the
passenger's side just has a 1" stripe in the middle of the rotor. I'm
going to have a look at that caliper and see if it's stuck open, scuff the
rotor with a wire brush and install the pads and see what happens.

Too bad the rest of the car didn't stay as nice as the motor and
tranny...they're great.

And parts are becoming scarcer than parts for my Supra!

My guess is that you'll have to replace that rotor as well as the pad
and it would probably be a good idea to replace that caliper too. I once
had the caliper lock up on my 84 GLC wagon. This occurred after doing a
hard stop. The steering wheel got yanked out of my hand when I tried to
accelerate. That was weird.

As I recall, the parking brake was on the front wheels and in order to
change the pads you'll have to screw the caliper piston clockwise to
retract them - you can't push them in. Now that I think about it, new
calipers might be on the expensive side.

My Subaru had the hill-holder feature which was pretty nifty. This
system will retain brake line pressure when you push in the clutch while
braking. It gets activated when your car is on an uphill slope. You
should learn how how to adjust it cause when adjusted correctly, the
darn thing works great. My guess is that not many people would be able
to adjust these so you're better off learning how to do it.

The timing belts on the car had a service life of 60K miles. One of them
snapped at 61K miles. I'd say that's pretty remarkable engineering in
anybodies book.

 

[Vic Smith]

At some time or the other, you are going to have worry that bleeder valve
free (or snap it off in the caliper assembly). Usually, but not always,
you
can make them yield. I have snapped one off only one time in my life.

Since it's rear shoes it's a wheel cylinder. Cheap to replace.
But I've sometimes just bled at the line connection instead, and
had no sponginess. And people define sponginess differently.
Sometimes it's normal pedal travel.
But it's his car, so he knows how it should feel.

--Vic

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

My guess is that you'll have to replace that rotor as well as the pad and
it would probably be a good idea to replace that caliper too. I once had
the caliper lock up on my 84 GLC wagon. This occurred after doing a hard
stop. The steering wheel got yanked out of my hand when I tried to
accelerate. That was weird.

As I recall, the parking brake was on the front wheels and in order to
change the pads you'll have to screw the caliper piston clockwise to
retract them - you can't push them in. Now that I think about it, new
calipers might be on the expensive side.

Yeah, calipers are too much. The car was $400, and is rusting. The thing
is, it runs so darn well!

I'll have a look at the caliper and see if it can be resurrected. It's not
leaking, at least...

My Subaru had the hill-holder feature which was pretty nifty. This system
will retain brake line pressure when you push in the clutch while braking.
It gets activated when your car is on an uphill slope. You should learn
how how to adjust it cause when adjusted correctly, the darn thing works
great. My guess is that not many people would be able to adjust these so
you're better off learning how to do it.

The automatic does all that...automatically!
Too bad it's only a 3-speed...4,000RPM on the highway!

The timing belts on the car had a service life of 60K miles. One of them
snapped at 61K miles. I'd say that's pretty remarkable engineering in
anybodies book.

Snapped just about a year ago. Never done one before, and it couldn't have
been much easier!

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

A Dremel, Sil-Glyde, aluminum anti-seize, and 50-grit
emery cloth are your friends.

Got 'em all! Learned on the Supra.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

That's one big problem with owning older cars that aren't considered
"collector" cars. I'm even running into parts unavailability for certain
trim components with our '99 Tercel.

Thanks for the tips on the piston.

Running out of parts for a '99?!?! (did they *MAKE* a '99? I thought it
ended in '98 and the Echo took over. )

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Whether your old discs (rotors) are worn unevenly or warped will have to
be evaluated.

Thanks.

The funny thing is, the other day there was a LOT of push-back on the
pedal, but as I surmised, it must have been rust, because the pedal is
smooth as silk now...

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

But it's his car, so he knows how it should feel.

Actually, it's only been mine for about 2 years, and winter only. What I
DO remember is, when I park that car and then take my '89 Mazda for a
spin, I almost put myself through the windshield when I hit the brakes the
first time!

 

[johninky]

1989 Suby GL Coupe, AWD.



One thing; the car has been siting since April, and the rotors were rusty.
After just a few miles the driver's side rotor came clean, but the
passenger's side just has a 1" stripe in the middle of the rotor. I'm
going to have a look at that caliper and see if it's stuck open, scuff the
rotor with a wire brush and install the pads and see what happens.

That makes sense. Car has 2 brake diagonal circuits. RF and LR is
one circuit and the LF and RR is the other. You have air in the
circuit you didn't bleed. Your brakes will always suck until both
circuits are bled. No getting around this.

 

[Tegger]

Thanks for the tips on the piston.

Running out of parts for a '99?!?! (did they *MAKE* a '99? I thought it
ended in '98 and the Echo took over. )

The later Tercels sold so poorly in the US that Toyota stopped imports
after the '98 MY. The rest of the world (including Canada) did get the '99
Tercel.

2000 was the first year for the Echo.

Oddly, even though the '99 Tercel was never sold in the US, the Canadian-
market '99 Tercel has a California-certified engine. Figure that one out.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

That makes sense. Car has 2 brake diagonal circuits. RF and LR is one
circuit and the LF and RR is the other. You have air in the circuit you
didn't bleed. Your brakes will always suck until both circuits are bled.
No getting around this.

Gee, thanks a LOT, John!

I'm going to try, very gingerly, to loosen the stuck bleeder tomorrow.

Also, the pass side caliper was stuck in the open position, and after an
hour with emory cloth, Dremel, Syl-Glide and a Mighty-Vac seems to be
working OK. The puck wasn't stuck, the sliders were.

Interesting thing: I beld the brakes the other day, and juice was flowing
out, but when I did the pass side caliper the pressure was building and
building and all of a sudden there was kind of a SLURP! and the juice
started filling the cup. I looked and didn't see anything, but considering
I just about completely refilled the cup 3 times the other day, it sure
was dirty.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

The later Tercels sold so poorly in the US that Toyota stopped imports
after the '98 MY. The rest of the world (including Canada) did get the '99
Tercel.

2000 was the first year for the Echo.

Oddly, even though the '99 Tercel was never sold in the US, the Canadian-
market '99 Tercel has a California-certified engine. Figure that one out.

EVERYONE has CA certified engines now...

 

[Ray O]

Gee, thanks a LOT, John!

I'm going to try, very gingerly, to loosen the stuck bleeder tomorrow.

Also, the pass side caliper was stuck in the open position, and after an
hour with emory cloth, Dremel, Syl-Glide and a Mighty-Vac seems to be
working OK. The puck wasn't stuck, the sliders were.

Interesting thing: I beld the brakes the other day, and juice was flowing
out, but when I did the pass side caliper the pressure was building and
building and all of a sudden there was kind of a SLURP! and the juice
started filling the cup. I looked and didn't see anything, but considering
I just about completely refilled the cup 3 times the other day, it sure
was dirty.

When the pressure builds that way and then just pops loose, the interior
lining of the brake hose could be deteriorated. A loose flap from the
lining could act as an obstruction, resulting in a spongy feel with poor
braking performance. On the wheel in question, if applying the brakes
doesn't move the caliper piston and you know the piston and sliders are
free, then the hose is suspect.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

When the pressure builds that way and then just pops loose, the interior
lining of the brake hose could be deteriorated. A loose flap from the
lining could act as an obstruction, resulting in a spongy feel with poor
braking performance. On the wheel in question, if applying the brakes
doesn't move the caliper piston and you know the piston and sliders are
free, then the hose is suspect.

Hmmmm....I think I'll have another look at this...

This is NOT good news...

 

[Ray O]

Hmmmm....I think I'll have another look at this...

This is NOT good news...

Hoses are cheaper than calipers - the hose in question would be the flexible
one between the body and caliper or wheel cylinder, not the metal brake line
from the master cylinder to the flex hose. You will probably need a flare
nut wrench to break the connections free. IIRC, you will need a 10 mm
wrench on a Toyota, probably the same on a Subie.

 

[Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B]

Hoses are cheaper than calipers - the hose in question would be the
flexible one between the body and caliper or wheel cylinder, not the metal
brake line from the master cylinder to the flex hose. You will probably
need a flare nut wrench to break the connections free. IIRC, you will
need a 10 mm wrench on a Toyota, probably the same on a Subie.

I took a look at the setup when I did the other side this morning. Yeah,
they join at the inner fender. Doesn't look too tough. I sprayed it with
GM Heat Riser Lubricant (IMHO, much better then Blaster...) and the hose
is $22 from AZ, but I'll bet it's cheaper from a Suby dealer. Most of the
parts I've bought for this have been! (Go figure!)

 

[in2dadark]

1989 Suby GL Coupe, AWD.

Spongy brakes. I did the obvious and flushed/bled, but it didn't help a
lot.

I got a set of pads and waiting for the weather to clear. This car has
disc fronts and drum rears. When I did the flush/fill I was unable to
loosen the bleeder on the left rear backing, and didn't want to snap it
off, so that one is not flushed, but what came out didn't look too bad,
anyway.

One thing; the car has been siting since April, and the rotors were rusty.
After just a few miles the driver's side rotor came clean, but the
passenger's side just has a 1" stripe in the middle of the rotor. I'm
going to have a look at that caliper and see if it's stuck open, scuff the
rotor with a wire brush and install the pads and see what happens.

Too bad the rest of the car didn't stay as nice as the motor and
tranny...they're great.

And parts are becoming scarcer than parts for my Supra!

You've mastered the art of asking a question without actually 'asking'
the question. Fer sure..Mom teach you that?