Tire rotation?

[David]

How do you rotate your Sube tires? Do you include the spare?

My 5-speed Forester will soon be ready for its first rotation.
I'm thinking pattern C here would be good:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/rotate.htm

But maybe a 5-tire pattern like this

http://www.vanagon.com/syncros/technica/tire-rotation/index.html

would be better. I wouldn't expect the minuscule difference in tire diameter
from mixing in the unused spare to be a problem, and the 5 tire pattern
should extend tire life (would I want to extend the Geolander's life? They
seem fine to me, but I don't think I've read glowing reviews of them here).
What do y'all do?

I remember in the old days they said not to switch directions for radial
tires. Later I read that was bunk (or obsolete). Does anyone think
that old story is true?

 

[David]

How do you rotate your Sube tires? Do you include the spare?

My 5-speed Forester will soon be ready for its first rotation.
I'm thinking pattern C here would be good:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/rotate.htm

But maybe a 5-tire pattern like this

http://www.vanagon.com/syncros/technica/tire-rotation/index.html

would be better. I wouldn't expect the minuscule difference in tire diameter
from mixing in the unused spare to be a problem, and the 5 tire pattern
should extend tire life (would I want to extend the Geolander's life? They
seem fine to me, but I don't think I've read glowing reviews of them here).
What do y'all do?

I found the Tirerack answer, which makes sense to me. Include the
full-sized spare in the rotation, else it will have become mismatched
by the time you need it:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/matchingtires.html

 

[Ragnar]

How do you rotate your Sube tires? Do you include the spare?

Why not follow the diagram in the owner's manual?

 

[MikeYankee]

Just bought a 2004 Forester and asked about this. Dealer said DO NOT INCLUDE
SPARE IN ROTATION because the spare, although full size, does not have the same
tread thickness or durability.


Mike Yankee

(Address is munged to thwart spammers.
To reply, delete everything after "com".)

 

[Edward Hayes]

This was absolutely NOT the case with my 2000 Forester spare. I would
question the dealer statement. eddie

 

[CW]

I would never include the spare in the rotation. It is only used in
the event I get a flat tire and in that case, only very sparingly. If
you do include it, are you saying your next tire change will require
getting 5 tires instead of 4? That would negate any cost advantage
from averaging out the wear. I doubt that very many people would
rotate the spare.

CW

 

[Ragnar]

I would never include the spare in the rotation. It is only used in
the event I get a flat tire and in that case, only very sparingly. If
you do include it, are you saying your next tire change will require
getting 5 tires instead of 4? That would negate any cost advantage
from averaging out the wear. I doubt that very many people would
rotate the spare.

CW

So you would rather risk damage to the car's drivetrain by using a spare
that isn't within proper size requirements? By practicing false economy,
you've just cost yourself the price of a new differential. Which, by the
way, is much, much more expensive than 1 tire.

 

[Ragnar]

Just bought a 2004 Forester and asked about this. Dealer said DO NOT INCLUDE
SPARE IN ROTATION because the spare, although full size, does not have the same
tread thickness or durability.

I'd call Bullsh*t on that statement from the dealer. My full size spare is
the exact same model and size as the other 4.

 

[Edward Hayes]

I would rotate the spare in until it was ~1/2 worn and then keep it as the
spare. That way when you put 4 new tires on, the spare will be closer to
your other 4 if you loose one. That's what I did. My 2000 F spare IS the
same tire as the 4 on the car. I think the service writer is giving you a
line unless Subaru has changed to a temporary spare. eddie

 

[Rick Courtright]

from averaging out the wear. I doubt that very many people would
rotate the spare.

Well...

I'm not very many people, of course, but whenever I've had a vehicle
with five of the same sized tires, I've rotated and bought sets of five.
Chances of finding the "same" tire as the spare are often slim at the
first replacement cycle, almost certainly slim or none at the second or
later ones. With the "requirements" for similar circumference tires on
AWB vehicles, and the difficulties mentioned here trying to buy a single
tire, it only makes sense to me to use 'em up along the way instead of
saving a "virgin" spare forever. As for the economics, set yourself up
with a spreadsheet to compare 4 vs 5, as I did once, and you'll find
overall operating cost remains extremely close. At least when you run
your cars 200k or more miles as many of us try to do.

Just my opinion, of course!

Rick

 

[Rick Courtright]

Just bought a 2004 Forester and asked about this. Dealer said DO NOT INCLUDE
SPARE IN ROTATION because the spare, although full size, does not have the same
tread thickness or durability.

Sounds like bunk to me, but it's easy enough to check out: measure the
spare's tread, read the sidewalls, compare with the tires on the ground.
If they're different, your dealer's telling you the right story, but if
they're the same, make your own decision on rotating.

Rick

 

[Marc Soloway]

In Sales at a Dealership in NE, USA

The Forester spare, (the only Subaru that comes with a Full size) I would
rotate the spare with the other 4, the spare rim is different in appearance
on certain models, but you could purchase an extra rim so it would match.

The tires are the SAME !!!!

You gotta take it out anyway, the valve to check the pressure is always on
the underside of the spare well .

Marc Soloway
Natick Subaru Sales
Natick, MA

 

[David Coggins]

I bought a new 2000 Forester GT fitted with standard Geolander tyres on
"mag" wheels, plus the same type of tyre on a steel rim for the spare.

The dealer services "rotated" the tyres - actually front to back - same
side. As far as I know, same direction rotation requirements for radial
tyres still apply.

I got to 60,000Km when I got my first slow leak puncture - time to change
the tyres!! Luckily I never had to use the spare, so it was as new - I was
happy with the performance of the standard tyres, so I bought 3 new
Geolanders the same as the original (that cost me enough anyway!!), and had
the best of the old tyres changed over to the steel rim for the spare.

I am aware of the problems with different circumference tyres, but I will
only be using the spare as a limp home if I get a puncture, and then repair
the original asap. I don't expect that any serious diff damage would occur
in the short term if the speed is kept down, and distance driven is small.

I don't do a lot of off road and very rough driving, but I have found over
my 40 years of driving with various cars that tyres usually pick up
punctures when they are reaching the end of their life anyway - I guess the
tread is getting thinner, and nails etc. can penetrate easier. My first
puncture is usually a signal that new tyres are required. Maybe I have just
been lucky, but I have never punctured or staked a good tyre bad enough to
have to replace it.

Regards

Dave Coggins
(In Australia)

 

[Rick Courtright]

The dealer services "rotated" the tyres - actually front to back - same
side. As far as I know, same direction rotation requirements for radial
tyres still apply.

Hi,

IIRC, Michelin was the first to drop that "requirement" as manufacturing
techniques made it obsolete. In the mid-70s! Most, if not all major
manufacturers followed suit. But it persists. Many rotation schedules
still advise it, and the idea will probably never die, so you can rotate
front to back if it feels more comfortable to you, but you're not gonna
hurt anything with a cross rotation pattern (excluding, of course,
directional tires.)

the original asap. I don't expect that any serious diff damage would occur
in the short term if the speed is kept down, and distance driven is small.

Probably not, but how many people "truly" limp home? I see 'em out on
the freeway every day running 70+ mph on the temporary "donuts" that are
listed for 50 mph max! Now that's gotta be hard on any diff, not just
AWD. As well as being of dubious safety regarding the tire itself.

my 40 years of driving with various cars that tyres usually pick up
punctures when they are reaching the end of their life anyway - I guess the

Exactly the opposite of my experience! I pick up most of the puncturing
items in the first coupla thousand miles of a new set of tires! My tire
guy says that's not unusual... the thinner, worn tire would seem the
likely victim, but he figures the new tread is perhaps a bit softer, so
it grabs stuff. He's not sure of the real reason, neither am I. In my
case, I figure it's a family curse--as a kid I remember my mother
getting a new set of tires in the morning before a day trip, and three
hours later, about 100 miles away, she ran over some kind of a piece of
metal that sliced and ruined one of her brand new tires. As luck would
have it, she was a half block from a tire dealer who handled the same
brand! We should all be so lucky?

Rick

 

[Edward Hayes]

Am I correct that a Subaru donut spare is a "same diameter" spare as Jeep
uses????? My 2000 Forester used the SAME tire as the 4 on the ground. eddie

 

[Archie]

According to the owners manual for my '03 Forester XS 5M, Subaru
recommends a four wheel rotation. Subaru recommends you swap the back
right with the front right and follow the same procedure on the left.

I'll stick with that advice.