Synthetic Oil ??

[houndman]

any thoughts on using Synthetic oil or not? If I had a turbo I would
definetly use it, but don't think it is as important in a non turbo
motor. Reading about Piston Slap in Subaru's, I let the motor warm up
before driving harder, and figure that should help that.

VF

 

[bigjim]

I only use full syn in my Subaru. I used it in my previous vehicle. I
will use it in any vehicle I buy in the future. Maybe it makes a
difference maybe not, but I keep my vehicles a while and have never
had an engine/oil issue in any of them.

 

[Bugalugs]

any thoughts on using Synthetic oil or not? If I had a turbo I would
definetly use it, but don't think it is as important in a non turbo
motor. Reading about Piston Slap in Subaru's, I let the motor warm up
before driving harder, and figure that should help that.

VF

If you google 'synthetic oil' on this newsgroup you will find thousands
of opinions on the advantages/disadvantages of synthetic and dino oils.

It's been 'done to death' a number of times.

 

[M.J.]

any thoughts on using Synthetic oil or not? If I had a turbo I would
definetly use it, but don't think it is as important in a non turbo
motor. Reading about Piston Slap in Subaru's, I let the motor warm up
before driving harder, and figure that should help that.

VF

Here is a good article about oil. It relates to oil in air cooled
boxer engines in Porshes but ilustrates the issue of weakening
anti-wear additive packages in newest SM designstion oils
(current formulatuions seem to prefer mixtures best for fuel
economy and catalitic converter life).

Those who take their cars to the track may benefit directly.
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

I like to use synthetics when the car is fairly new, say up
to 100-150k miles and then swith to regular but slightly
thicker oil, and change it very frequently, then.
On an old loose engine blow-by contaminates new oil much
too fast to make synthetics very economical. Also leak
problems are common which regular oil can patch somewhat.

M.J.

 

[Jim Stewart]

Here is a good article about oil. It relates to oil in air cooled
boxer engines in Porshes but ilustrates the issue of weakening
anti-wear additive packages in newest SM designstion oils
(current formulatuions seem to prefer mixtures best for fuel
economy and catalitic converter life).

Those who take their cars to the track may benefit directly.
http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

Interesting that shops are switching
to Mobil's syn motorcycle oil. I run
Mobil1 4MT Racing 4-stroke motorcycle
oil in my airplane per the manufacturer's
recommendation. A little too pricy for
the Subaru at $11 a quart.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

any thoughts on using Synthetic oil or not? If I had a turbo I would
definetly use it, but don't think it is as important in a non turbo
motor. Reading about Piston Slap in Subaru's, I let the motor warm up
before driving harder, and figure that should help that.

VF

I use it but doubt that it is necessary. If I were on a tight budget I
certainly wouldn't. However, it gives me a little margin if I'm a few
hundred or even a thousand miles late on an oil change. It keeps varnish
suspended better (that's why its always so dark coming out I think) .

In Texas, it gets very hot. I've seen owners manuals from a coupla cars
in the past that described 'severe service' as continued operation above
90degrees!!! That's like 1/3 of the year here! lol! I intend to run
Rotella 5w-40 in the summer and probably walmart's 5w-30 in the winter.
Or perhaps Mobil 1. I don't put many miles on so the oil will probably
only see about 4K miles anyway.

Carl

 

[VanguardLH]

any thoughts on using Synthetic oil or not? If I had a turbo I would
definetly use it, but don't think it is as important in a non turbo
motor. Reading about Piston Slap in Subaru's, I let the motor warm
up
before driving harder, and figure that should help that.

I use a synthetic blend. Cheaper than full synthetic. Tires Plus
uses it as their base oil (no regular oil) and the oil/filter change
is the same cost. I don't get it to reduce the startup ticking valve
noise (hard to tell if it helps). I get it because winters can be
cold here and the engine turns over easier.

 

[houndman]

I use it but doubt that it is necessary. If I were on a tight budget I
certainly wouldn't. However, it gives me a little margin if I'm a few
hundred or even a thousand miles late on an oil change. It keeps varnish
suspended better (that's why its always so dark coming out I think) .

In Texas, it gets very hot. I've seen owners manuals from a coupla cars
in the past that described 'severe service' as continued operation above
90degrees!!! That's like 1/3 of the year here! lol! I intend to run
Rotella 5w-40 in the summer and probably walmart's 5w-30 in the winter.
Or perhaps Mobil 1. I don't put many miles on so the oil will probably
only see about 4K miles anyway.

Carl

Don't you have a turbo, and don't you think it is better for them? I
beelieve Sube runs coolant around the turbo bearing, but still there's
extra heat, especially after shuting the motor, which can be extreme.

A friend said that Consumers Reports said, it isn't worth it. I
didn't read the story, and maybe not for a non turbo motor, unless
maybe there are situations caused by the motor design. When synthetics
first came out, Popular Sicence or Mechanics did a study with highway
patrol cars in WI or MI, and ran them for 150K mi. The mineral oil was
changed when recomended, and the Synthetic wasn't changed, and after
150K, they said the synthetic oiled motors had half the wear.

Oil is strange, like they say it never wears out, just the additives
do, and then combustion, condensation, and gas that can get into it,
can affect it. FI is supposed to eliminate or minimize the raw gas
that can get in to when warming up. How ones drives a car, and the
weather can make situations different. I just plan to use the Sube on
long trips, but if it was my only car, it would be going on short
trips, a mile at a time, and sitting for a while. I like to get the
motor up to temp, every time it is used, thought that may not be
anough, driving a mile, even if stopping often for lights and stop
signs, but better than not.

Is the color of the oil varnish, or dirt and soot from combustion? I
like flushing the old oil by pouring a little kersoscene in, after
draining the oil, to get as much old stuff and dirt out, as I can. Not
sure if keroscene is as compatiable with synthetic.

I read that oil may protect better the older it is, to a point, so
recomended 7500mi between changes. I usually went by color, as to how
well it might be lubing, when I changed it. Not a good test, but an
indicator.

VF

 

[houndman]

I use a synthetic blend. Cheaper than full synthetic. Tires Plus
uses it as their base oil (no regular oil) and the oil/filter change
is the same cost. I don't get it to reduce the startup ticking valve
noise (hard to tell if it helps). I get it because winters can be
cold here and the engine turns over easier.

I assume you are talking about teh same weight oil with the starting.
I had an old car that was using some oil, and put the cheapest
Straight Weight oil in it. When it started to get cold, the motor
cranked like the battery was weak. Then I remembered I had the
straight weight in it. ))

I have wondered if the blends were any better than straight mineral
oil, since it is in it, and seems like they might be a weak link.

VF

VF

 

[Bob H]

any thoughts on using Synthetic oil or not? If I had a turbo I would
definetly use it, but don't think it is as important in a non turbo
motor. Reading about Piston Slap in Subaru's, I let the motor warm up
before driving harder, and figure that should help that.

VF

Letting the motor sit at idle before driving can contribute to fuel dilution
of the engine oil (cylinder washdown). Something turbo Subie's are
reknowned for. Just drive away gently instead, you'll use less fuel overall
and contribute to global warming and pollution less.

The "dino" oils of today are head and shoulders above those of yesterday.
Unless you have a turbo engine or live in extreme cold temperatures, "dino"
oil will do very very well in a Subie. Since all their fours use a timing
belt, oil stress is minimal in these engines. If you want to waste your
money on sythetic, the oil co's will love you.

 

[houndman]

Letting the motor sit at idle before driving can contribute to fuel dilution
of the engine oil (cylinder washdown). Something turbo Subie's are
reknowned for. Just drive away gently instead, you'll use less fuel overall
and contribute to global warming and pollution less.

The "dino" oils of today are head and shoulders above those of yesterday.
Unless you have a turbo engine or live in extreme cold temperatures, "dino"
oil will do very very well in a Subie. Since all their fours use a timing
belt, oil stress is minimal in these engines. If you want to waste your
money on sythetic, the oil co's will love you.

what does a timing belt have to do with stress on the oil?

The temp on my 2.5i comes up pretty fast so far in the summer. It is
new, and I like to see the gauge move before driving. I believe in
driving slowly as opposed to warming a car up completely. My dad
didn't, but he lived too long with the single weight oils, and wouldn'
t change his beliefs. Piston slap in a Sube, makes me want to go a bit
slower, and keep the revs down till it reaches operating temps.

VF

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Don't you have a turbo, and don't you think it is better for them? I
beelieve Sube runs coolant around the turbo bearing, but still there's
extra heat, especially after shuting the motor, which can be extreme.

A friend said that Consumers Reports said, it isn't worth it. I
didn't read the story, and maybe not for a non turbo motor, unless
maybe there are situations caused by the motor design. When synthetics
first came out, Popular Sicence or Mechanics did a study with highway
patrol cars in WI or MI, and ran them for 150K mi. The mineral oil was
changed when recomended, and the Synthetic wasn't changed, and after
150K, they said the synthetic oiled motors had half the wear.

Oil is strange, like they say it never wears out, just the additives
do, and then combustion, condensation, and gas that can get into it,
can affect it. FI is supposed to eliminate or minimize the raw gas
that can get in to when warming up. How ones drives a car, and the
weather can make situations different. I just plan to use the Sube on
long trips, but if it was my only car, it would be going on short
trips, a mile at a time, and sitting for a while. I like to get the
motor up to temp, every time it is used, thought that may not be
anough, driving a mile, even if stopping often for lights and stop
signs, but better than not.

Is the color of the oil varnish, or dirt and soot from combustion? I
like flushing the old oil by pouring a little kersoscene in, after
draining the oil, to get as much old stuff and dirt out, as I can. Not
sure if keroscene is as compatiable with synthetic.

I read that oil may protect better the older it is, to a point, so
recomended 7500mi between changes. I usually went by color, as to how
well it might be lubing, when I changed it. Not a good test, but an
indicator.

VF

I definitely 'try' to let my engine idle for 15 seconds or so before
pulling out in the mornings or if it hasn't been driven in a few hours.
And I 'try' not to hammer it to redline unless it has warmed up to
normal operating temps.
And yeah - supposedly the synthetics would resist 'coking' better so the
turbo bearing 'may' get a little more protection.

Carl

 

[Bugalugs]

I definitely 'try' to let my engine idle for 15 seconds or so before
pulling out in the mornings or if it hasn't been driven in a few hours.
And I 'try' not to hammer it to redline unless it has warmed up to
normal operating temps.
And yeah - supposedly the synthetics would resist 'coking' better so the
turbo bearing 'may' get a little more protection.

Carl

You "MAY" (that's a big may) get some advantage. I have had no turbo or
fuel related problems with a 90 GT Legacy wagon I had for 8 years and
now on to a 02 model. I only used dino oils.

These guys at FHI have been designing turbos for quite a few years now
and the initial design considerations would take into account the
housewife (are you still allowed to use that terminology) who uses a car
for a number of short trips every day through to the numbskull who only
knows that that there is a go pedal and a stop pedal and every
now-n-gain you have to put in some petrol from one of those pump things.

Doesn't matter what numbers are on the side of the pump as long as it
says 'Petrol'

In otherwords they have to design them to be as idiotproof as possible
and no presentday manufacturer can afford to put out a product that
hasn't been overengineered by at least 50%.

 

[houndman]

Carl 1 Lucky Texan wrote:






You "MAY" (that's a big may) get some advantage. I have had no turbo or
fuel related problems with a 90 GT Legacy wagon I had for 8 years and
now on to a 02 model. I only used dino oils.

These guys at FHI have been designing turbos for quite a few years now
and the initial design considerations would take into account the
housewife (are you still allowed to use that terminology) who uses a car
for a number of short trips every day through to the numbskull who only
knows that that there is a go pedal and a stop pedal and every
now-n-gain you have to put in some petrol from one of those pump things.

Doesn't matter what numbers are on the side of the pump as long as it
says 'Petrol'

In otherwords they have to design them to be as idiotproof as possible
and no presentday manufacturer can afford to put out a product that
hasn't been overengineered by at least 50%.

Hate to bring up a touchy subject, but don't, or didn't Subes have a
head gasket problem, that could be catastrophic? I'd like to protect
things that I could, and with turbos heating the oil to a much higher
temps, and synthetic handling higher temps, it seems logical to use
it. If something was doubtful, I'd flip a coin, and then decide for
myself.)

VF

 

[Bob H]

what does a timing belt have to do with stress on the oil?

Less oil shear.

The temp on my 2.5i comes up pretty fast so far in the summer. It is
new, and I like to see the gauge move before driving. I believe in
driving slowly as opposed to warming a car up completely. My dad
didn't, but he lived too long with the single weight oils, and wouldn'
t change his beliefs. Piston slap in a Sube, makes me want to go a bit
slower, and keep the revs down till it reaches operating temps.

You are wasting fuel and adding to air pollution if you are idling it in
order to 'warm' it. The engine oil is more viscuous when its cold, and
provides ample protection in a cold engine with its looser clearances. And
it is designed to be driven cold. If you have audible piston slap in a new
Subie you should get it fixed under warranty. Try to keep the air we must
all breath as clean as possible, will you? Think of your children, and
their children, and..... If you're going to be that obsessive about engine
temp, then use synthetic oil and skip the silly warm-ups. All you're
accomplishing is faster glacier melt.

 

[KLS]

You are wasting fuel and adding to air pollution if you are idling it in
order to 'warm' it. The engine oil is more viscuous when its cold, and
provides ample protection in a cold engine with its looser clearances. And
it is designed to be driven cold. If you have audible piston slap in a new
Subie you should get it fixed under warranty. Try to keep the air we must
all breath as clean as possible, will you? Think of your children, and
their children, and..... If you're going to be that obsessive about engine
temp, then use synthetic oil and skip the silly warm-ups. All you're
accomplishing is faster glacier melt.

The HoundMan very likely does not have children given the amount of
time and energy he spends posting here and working on his new baby.
This would explain his fuel usage habits.

 

[houndman]

Less oil shear.




You are wasting fuel and adding to air pollution if you are idling it in
order to 'warm' it. The engine oil is more viscuous when its cold, and
provides ample protection in a cold engine with its looser clearances. And
it is designed to be driven cold. If you have audible piston slap in a new
Subie you should get it fixed under warranty. Try to keep the air we must
all breath as clean as possible, will you? Think of your children, and
their children, and..... If you're going to be that obsessive about engine
temp, then use synthetic oil and skip the silly warm-ups. All you're
accomplishing is faster glacier melt.

cough..cough..

so warming a new engine a bit is gona melt a glacier? Fragile aren't
they? My old Chevy Daily Driver probably polluts 100X more, though in
a BIG city with 3 refineries up wind, it probably cleans the air.

I Thought piston slap came with wear, and a cold engine driven hard.
Must be mistaken.

FV

 

[houndman]

The HoundMan very likely does not have children given the amount of
time and energy he spends posting here and working on his new baby.
This would explain his fuel usage habits.

I Thought there were people here who Knew about Sube's, and modern
machinery. I got cut off at the knees in 88' from a devistating
injury, including brain, liver, kidney, lung, vision, hearing, and
muscle damage, Kids are long gone and the wife is dead, so trying to
remember the Old, and catch up on the New. Some people Know and Don't
mind sharing, like I do when I Know something, and others just flap
their jaws, and say Nothing.. It takes All Kinds..

I've had the car a month, and hardly did anything that I planned to.
Cooler weather hopefully will get me moving. Added an alarm today.
Better not talk about it, some people don't like to Hear others did
things, or want or plan to. Makes them feel inadequit or lazy. Takes
me 10X longer than it should, If I can do things, but I won't give up
wanting to and trying. Even if neighbors tell me I make them tired
just watching me, but they always said something when I was up to my
elbows in pisons and valves. Drove a machinist to Auto Shop classes to
Learn how to work on his car, though didn't last long. Now he still
says what I'm doing are Good ideas, and he Wished he had done them. It
Takes All Kinds...

FV

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

cough..cough..

so warming a new engine a bit is gona melt a glacier? Fragile aren't
they? My old Chevy Daily Driver probably polluts 100X more, though in
a BIG city with 3 refineries up wind, it probably cleans the air.

I Thought piston slap came with wear, and a cold engine driven hard.
Must be mistaken.

FV

Piston slap is likely gone or much reduced in today's soob engines. They
had a run (Rick - anyone?) several years ago where, in an effort to
reduce recip. mass or meet ever-stringent pollution
requirements/whatever, the pistonds had skirts which were too short.(and
maybe the wrist pin placement was different? not sure). I haven't
noticed any noises from my 2 soobs. Though they are 03 and 06 . Older
ones - yeah, they exhibit it.

Carl

 

[AS]

I only use Mobil1, expensive, but any time i had removed a valve cover
or done any engine service, I see the justification to keep using it.
No deposits, almost no wear.