STi in the snow

[Mark T.B. Carroll]

Well, we've had over nine inches of snow, the top part of which seems to
have turned into a thick ice sheet. My WRX STi finds this pretty
challenging, not least because the body can have to push against the ice
sheet. I also seem to burn a bit of tire as it makes it way bumpily
along, as one wheel gets purchase, then another somewhere else, etc. One
interesting result is that steering sometimes has more to do with where
the lumps of ice are than which way I'm turning. I've not noticed much
gain out of locking the center differential manually instead of letting
the computer take care of things, but I figured it was worth a try.

Still, it mostly does pretty well, if I help a bit with bit of targeted
shoveling, and pushing. And I'm parking near the road end of our
driveway for a while.

I can't help but wonder if an Outback would have a much easier time of
it, through the higher ground clearance. I can't help but recall the
Citroen I rented once that had buttons for raising and lowering the car
- that feature would be cool to have.

-- Mark

 

[Josh Assing]

I can't help but wonder if an Outback would have a much easier time of

it, through the higher ground clearance. I can't help but recall the
Citroen I rented once that had buttons for raising and lowering the car
- that feature would be cool to have.

Yes; it would -- lower torque, the wheels don't break loose, suspension is less
stiff -- so less bounce.

The problem with "performance" cars is that they're designed for performance,
not "all around usage".

The good thing about performacne cars is there a blast to drive in the rigth
situations -- way more than "all around usage" cars.

You should be able to "tame" the sti (ie: you should be able to learn) so that
the car drives fine in the snow & ice.

Take your time and learn how the car handles & try starting off in 2nd or 3rd
gear.


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[XP User]

Tires make a huge difference with the STi. My 06 came with
"performance-summer tires" from the factory and was told by many to change
them for winter duty use here in New England.
My sti is a "nice weather toy" only, (use 4x4 truck) ,so it's never seen
snow/ice. However I did drive in rain twice, which it still had great
traction with the summer-performance tires.
I hear Bridgestone Blizzaks are great winter performance tires.

Good luck..................CC

 

[Mark T.B. Carroll]

Tires make a huge difference with the STi. My 06 came with
"performance-summer tires" from the factory and was told by many to
change them for winter duty use here in New England.

(snip)

Yes, I was wondering if when they sell an STi in the winter, it still
comes with RE070s on it.

My sti is a "nice weather toy" only, (use 4x4 truck) ,so it's never seen
snow/ice. However I did drive in rain twice, which it still had great
traction with the summer-performance tires.
I hear Bridgestone Blizzaks are great winter performance tires.

Cool. So far I've been pretty happy with my Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2's
but I don't have enough experience to compare well.

-- Mark

 

[Mark T.B. Carroll]

The problem with "performance" cars is that they're designed for performance,
not "all around usage".

(snip)

Mmmm, true. It's all tradeoffs.

I should have added, I had an interesting problem lately where it felt
like the front wheels were unbalanced. I fixed it by removing a large
chunk of ice from between the spokes of the driver-side front wheel!

-- Mark

 

[isquat]

(snip)

Yes, I was wondering if when they sell an STi in the winter, it still
comes with RE070s on it.

If a buyer is serious about that level of performance
and has that kind of cash he should arrive with a set of 17"s
with winter shoes. I don't see why this is a problem.
Btw what do you have on it now?

 

[Mark T.B. Carroll]

On Feb 16, 12:54 pm, (e-mail address removed) (Mark T.B. Carroll) wrote: (snip)
If a buyer is serious about that level of performance
and has that kind of cash he should arrive with a set of 17"s
with winter shoes. I don't see why this is a problem.
Btw what do you have on it now?

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2's.

-- Mark

 

[isquat]

Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2's.

Got it. You had it in your post but I somehow skipped "Alpin" part.
Looks like you need two sets of "winter" tires, one the performance
winters like you have for snow
and something like REVOs for ice. The latter would suck on snow
though. Or so some of the reviews on tirerack imply.

 

[Dee]

(snip)

Yes, I was wondering if when they sell an STi in the winter, it still
comes with RE070s on it.

Yes, it does. Luckily it was a mild December (two months ago) when I
picked up my STi Ltd so I didn't worry too much. But I drove it only about
10 days before having 960AS's put on it. They've made the ride a bit more
forgiving, plus they've been great in all the rain and snow lately.

Dee

 

[Mark T.B. Carroll]

I've not noticed much gain out of locking the center differential
manually

I forgot to ask - is this exactly like what I get out of a regular 4WD
truck with center differential locked, or is the AWD with the center
differential locked still different somehow?

-- Mark

 

[JD]

I forgot to ask - is this exactly like what I get out of a regular 4WD
truck with center differential locked, or is the AWD with the center
differential locked still different somehow?

-- Mark

Its different. 4WD with lock locks all four wheels. The STi lock only
locks the centre diff. Front and rear are still open.

I am on my fourth winter with the STi. Locking the centre diff will give you
a bit better control (mainly because it is tail-happy in AUTO, and the DCCD
AUTO is not fast enough to deal with ice), but don't do it on dry pavement.
Because the front and rear diffs are open, use a little left-foot braking.
Light pressure on the brakes while you use the gas with your right foot
gives you better traction, and also helps you contol the torque. On really
slippery roads, I don't use 1st, and I keep the revs below 2200

 

[nobody >]

Its different. 4WD with lock locks all four wheels. The STi lock only
locks the centre diff. Front and rear are still open.

Unless someone has ordered or installed locking differentials front and
rear, or something like the Land Rover's traction control system (which
is "ABS in reverse"), 4wd does *not* lock all 4 wheels. I should know,
I've been stuck with one wheel spinning on each axle more than once in
a 4wd with "open" diffs.

 

[Mark T.B. Carroll]

(snip)
Its different. 4WD with lock locks all four wheels. The STi lock only
locks the centre diff. Front and rear are still open.

Ah! Thanks very much. That certainly explains a lot about how it feels.

I am on my fourth winter with the STi. Locking the centre diff will give you
a bit better control (mainly because it is tail-happy in AUTO, and the DCCD
AUTO is not fast enough to deal with ice), but don't do it on dry
pavement.

Mmmm, right, okay.

Because the front and rear diffs are open, use a little left-foot braking.
Light pressure on the brakes while you use the gas with your right foot
gives you better traction, and also helps you contol the torque. On really
slippery roads, I don't use 1st, and I keep the revs below 2200

That's interesting. I never tried anything like that - too strongly
trained to never left-foot-brake. (-: I'll give that technique a go.

-- Mark

 

[JD]

Unless someone has ordered or installed locking differentials front and
rear, or something like the Land Rover's traction control system (which is
"ABS in reverse"), 4wd does *not* lock all 4 wheels. I should know, I've
been stuck with one wheel spinning on each axle more than once in a 4wd
with "open" diffs.

Try it in low-range. All four wheels should be locked.

 

[JD]

Ah! Thanks very much. That certainly explains a lot about how it feels.


Mmmm, right, okay.


That's interesting. I never tried anything like that - too strongly
trained to never left-foot-brake. (-: I'll give that technique a go.

-- Mark

I am too. It takes a lot to overcome. I only do it when I get stuck; which
is not too often. But it works a treat if you need all four wheels to spin
at the same speed. It also has EBD which is great in low traction
situations.

 

[nobody >]

Try it in low-range. All four wheels should be locked.

Wrong again.

"Low-range" is nothing more than a much lower gear reduction in the
transfer case, usually about 2:1. There are some option packages that
may lock the _rear_ differential in low-range. Yes, you can install an
ARB or similar locker in the front but manufacturers are not very likely
to do this as a factory option, lots of liability issues. A locked front
differential is a very scary steering experience (as in no steering) in
most slick road situations; especially if the driver has no experience.

Even a locking rear differential is something you don't want to turn
loose on the "never had a 4-by before" crowd. They also don't steer well
on sheet ice.

Been Dere Dun Dat (BNDD); same results, low-range in a superbly stuck
situation means one wheel spinning on each end.

I've been four-wheelin' since the '60's. Friends and I would go out and
intentionally get stuck for "fun". I don't do that now, I decided it
cost too much and (now) hurts too much.


Want proof? Jack up both ends of the usual unmodified 4x4 and put the
trans in neutral. Put it in 4wd, 4HI or 4LO. If all 4 wheels were locked
as you say, you could spin one tire and the other three would spin *the
same direction*. They won't!

 

[JD]

Wrong again.

"Low-range" is nothing more than a much lower gear reduction in the
transfer case, usually about 2:1. There are some option packages that may
lock the _rear_ differential in low-range. Yes, you can install an ARB or
similar locker in the front but manufacturers are not very likely to do
this as a factory option, lots of liability issues. A locked front
differential is a very scary steering experience (as in no steering) in
most slick road situations; especially if the driver has no experience.

Even a locking rear differential is something you don't want to turn loose
on the "never had a 4-by before" crowd. They also don't steer well on
sheet ice.

Been Dere Dun Dat (BNDD); same results, low-range in a superbly stuck
situation means one wheel spinning on each end.

I've been four-wheelin' since the '60's. Friends and I would go out and
intentionally get stuck for "fun". I don't do that now, I decided it cost
too much and (now) hurts too much.


Want proof? Jack up both ends of the usual unmodified 4x4 and put the
trans in neutral. Put it in 4wd, 4HI or 4LO. If all 4 wheels were locked
as you say, you could spin one tire and the other three would spin *the
same direction*. They won't!

We tried it on my buddy's Jeep YJ. It took both of us to turn the wheel and
they all turned in the same direction in low range. Not in high range
though

 

[nobody >]

We tried it on my buddy's Jeep YJ. It took both of us to turn the wheel and
they all turned in the same direction in low range. Not in high range
though

The question remains.. was it stock?

The effort you had to put into that implies locking and/or limited-slip
differentials in both ends. But at the same time you say it didn't work
in 4Hi....

I haven't kept up with Jeep's various 4x4 systems. It's possible that
there's some variant on their Quadratrack system that *does* put all 4
wheels into a limited-slip/locked condition in 4Lo and not 4Hi. You
could be correct on this particular vehicle. Otherwise I stand my ground.

For on-road, I'm far happier with a Subie with a limited-slip rear. I
know I've got "3-wheel drive" at least (unless *I* screw it up and break
traction badly).

 

[JD]

The question remains.. was it stock?

The effort you had to put into that implies locking and/or limited-slip
differentials in both ends. But at the same time you say it didn't work in
4Hi....

I haven't kept up with Jeep's various 4x4 systems. It's possible that
there's some variant on their Quadratrack system that *does* put all 4
wheels into a limited-slip/locked condition in 4Lo and not 4Hi. You could
be correct on this particular vehicle. Otherwise I stand my ground.

For on-road, I'm far happier with a Subie with a limited-slip rear. I know
I've got "3-wheel drive" at least (unless *I* screw it up and break
traction badly).

You can actually make it four-wheel with judicious use of left-foot braking.
Because diffs are lazy (from an engineering perspective) it will put most of
the torque to the wheel that is slipping. Applying a bit of brake will force
it to balance the torque better. While, it won't work as well as fully
locking diffs, it is pretty effective at getting you unstuck.

 

[JD]

The question remains.. was it stock?

The effort you had to put into that implies locking and/or limited-slip
differentials in both ends. But at the same time you say it didn't work in
4Hi....

It was stock. This guy doesn't do anything to his cars at all.