Manual Driving. Lesson #1

[Michael Smith]

Ok. I have been following a few different threads lately that talk
about RPM speeds, and "what cars were meant to be driven" at, etc,
etc.

I am 34 i taught myself stick at age 16. I have been driving stick
since then. I do it alittle different though. so my questions are
below.

Ok. say for example i am driving down a city road around 45MPH. i
would be in 5th gear, with RPM between 1 and 2.

Should i be in fourth, with the RPMs around 2 and 3 or even third with
RPMs at 3.5?

Of course if i was in 5th and i wanted to pass, i would drop to 3rd
and hit it. I thought that was the advantage of having a stick. But
it seems some people would just be in third to begin with.


Second. in th e above example. wouldn't i get crappy milage if i was
in third? same distance lots more RPM= crappy gas milage... right?



Third. Somene was reciently talking about turning. he stated that
you should brake just going into the turn to give the turning tires
"bite" from the weight transfer. makes sence. With a manual would he
stay in gear the whole time? or back in gear after he lets off the
brake so he can rocket out of the turn?

I have always automatacally pressed the clutch when breaking, well
unless it is just a slight decrease in speed. Should i not be doing
this? Due to loss of traction? or for whatever reason?

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully respond, to this

Mike

 

[Abe]

<snip>
Third. Somene was reciently talking about turning. he stated that
you should brake just going into the turn to give the turning tires
"bite" from the weight transfer. makes sence. With a manual would he
stay in gear the whole time? or back in gear after he lets off the
brake so he can rocket out of the turn?

I have always automatacally pressed the clutch when breaking, well
unless it is just a slight decrease in speed. Should i not be doing
this? Due to loss of traction? or for whatever reason?

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully respond, to this

Mike

My opinion. You can lay on the brake without disengaging the clutch
until your RPMs drop to something close to idle. Of course if you
don't disengage the clutch in time the car with stall. You can play
this game and downshift through the gears to use a lot of engine
braking instead of wheel braking.

Mark "who got 90,000mi on VW Jetta brakes once"

** Due to SPAM I no longer receive email responses to
** newsgroup postings, so don't bother.

 

[Phillip Weston]

Ok. I have been following a few different threads lately that talk
about RPM speeds, and "what cars were meant to be driven" at, etc,
etc.

I am 34 i taught myself stick at age 16. I have been driving stick
since then. I do it alittle different though. so my questions are
below.

Ok. say for example i am driving down a city road around 45MPH. i
would be in 5th gear, with RPM between 1 and 2.

Personally I change into 5th around 80km/h (50mph) and my revs are
around 1700rpm), then I'd change back down to 4th when the revs drop
to 1500rpm, which by then would be around 70km/h (44mph). I try not to
drive the car at such a gear where the engine would be at 1500, as the
car labours when you accelerate.

Should i be in fourth, with the RPMs around 2 and 3 or even third with
RPMs at 3.5?

There's no harm in being in 5th to get better milage, I try to be in a
higher gear as possible. If you want to pass you can easily just
change gear and go for it.

Of course if i was in 5th and i wanted to pass, i would drop to 3rd
and hit it. I thought that was the advantage of having a stick. But
it seems some people would just be in third to begin with.

I personally wouldn't have been in 3rd, I would be in 4th or maybe
5th.

Second. in th e above example. wouldn't i get crappy milage if i was
in third? same distance lots more RPM= crappy gas milage... right?

That's right. You could always make a comprimise between driving for
better gas milage, or driving to get performance.

Third. Somene was reciently talking about turning. he stated that
you should brake just going into the turn to give the turning tires
"bite" from the weight transfer. makes sence. With a manual would he
stay in gear the whole time? or back in gear after he lets off the
brake so he can rocket out of the turn?

It seems logical to brake so the weight is transferred to the front
wheels for a moment while it corners, which results in better
traction. I would drop down a gear just before I enter the corner, and
get acceleration as I exit the corner, if I accelerate too much, I get
understeer.

I have always automatacally pressed the clutch when breaking, well
unless it is just a slight decrease in speed. Should i not be doing
this? Due to loss of traction? or for whatever reason?

I personally wouldn't be pressing the clutch until you coming to a
complete standstill. If you are slowing down, it's a good idea to slow
the motor down too, afterall, you don't want to suddenly brake and put
your foot on the clutch, but the engine revs stay the same for a
moment, and if you accidentally let out the clutch again you'll leap
forward.

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully respond, to this

No worries, hope I helped.

Cheers,
Phil

 

[Larry Van Wormer]

Third. Somene was reciently talking about turning. he stated that
you should brake just going into the turn to give the turning tires
"bite" from the weight transfer. makes sence. With a manual would he
stay in gear the whole time? or back in gear after he lets off the
brake so he can rocket out of the turn?

Thought it wouldn't hurt to add a few words about this point, to the
other good answers you have received:

The basic point to remember, the tires will generate only so much
traction, based on the surface conditions and the forces applied. You
won't get better cornering ability by the method you outline. In fact,
in conditions of limited traction, it could reduce cornering ability.

When I'm cornering, the only time the clutch is used is when I'm
shifting to keep the engine in a good rpm range. I do use the clutch
early when simply coming to a halt, after dropping through the gears. In
a panic stop, without time to shift down (very rare, thankfully!) I'd
automatically depress the clutch, to keep the engine running.

Larry Van Wormer

 

[David or Jo Anne Ryeburn]

Mark "who got 90,000mi on VW Jetta brakes once"

I don't know what I'll eventually get on my 1997 Legacy Outback's original
brakes. So far I've gotten 229,000 km and the pads and disks are still in
good shape. And yes, the Outback *does* get driven quite fast under
appropriate conditions.

David, strong believer in 5-speed manual transmissions

 

[Ron Ginter]

Ok. say for example i am driving down a city road around 45MPH. i
would be in 5th gear, with RPM between 1 and 2.

Should i be in fourth, with the RPMs around 2 and 3 or even third with
RPMs at 3.5?

Of course if i was in 5th and i wanted to pass, i would drop to 3rd
and hit it. I thought that was the advantage of having a stick. But
it seems some people would just be in third to begin with.

It depends largely on personal preference, and how you like to drive. If I'm
toodling along a country road at 45mph, I'm in top gear because I'm unlikely
to need to make any quick changes in velocity. If I'm taking my time at 45mph
on a city road, I'm probably in 4th gear, because the car is more responsive
with the revs up a bit, and I'm more likely to want to accelerate suddenly in
order to make a lane change or avoid a hazard. If I'm in a hurry (or just
havin' fun) then I'm probably in 3rd gear, with the engine revs in the meat of
the powerband, so I can squirt and shoot with authority. There's nothing
wrong with driving in the city in top gear, then downshifting to pass, it just
takes longer.

I was taught (back in the 60's) that you shouldn't "lug" an engine because
you'll build up carbon deposits. Running it hard occasionally would blow
those deposits out. I doubt this is still true with modern materials and
fuels.

Second. in th e above example. wouldn't i get crappy milage if i was
in third? same distance lots more RPM= crappy gas milage... right?

Not necessarily. Driving low in the rev range, out of the powerband, means
that bigger throttle adjustments are necessary to produce a certain
acceleration. Higher revs means more power, and smaller throttle openings.
Every motor has a rev point of peak efficiency, I suppose.

Third. Somene was reciently talking about turning. he stated that
you should brake just going into the turn to give the turning tires
"bite" from the weight transfer. makes sence. With a manual would he
stay in gear the whole time? or back in gear after he lets off the
brake so he can rocket out of the turn?

I have always automatacally pressed the clutch when breaking, well
unless it is just a slight decrease in speed. Should i not be doing
this? Due to loss of traction? or for whatever reason?

Look at clutching (shifting) and braking as different functions, both related
to speed. Braking is used to reduce speed, which necessitates shifting to a
lower gear. Only disengage the clutch if you need to shift gears. Otherwise,
leave the clutch engaged so engine braking will help you slow down. Having
the clutch engaged also helps to stabilize the car while transitioning from
brake back to throttle.

If I'm stopping, then I'll just disengage the clutch and stop, then select
first gear again.

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully respond, to this

Hope this helps, all IMHO, YMMV, etc. ;-)

....Ron

 

[Charles Gillen]

Ok. say for example i am driving down a city road around 45MPH. i
would be in 5th gear, with RPM between 1 and 2.

For most city driving, I have a very simple rule of thumb on shifting:

Check the speedometer, divide by ten, then add 1, giving you:

10 MPH = time to shift to second
20 MPH - shift to third
30 MPH - shift to fourth
40 MPH - shift to fifth

That is sensible shifting. Whenever you get bored with being sensible,
just floor the gas pedal and keep shifting upwards as you roar past the
above markers :^)

 

[Paul Pedersen]

Michael Smith writes :

...Ok. say for example i am driving down a city road around 45MPH.
i would be in 5th gear, with RPM between 1 and 2.

I like to keep the engine in it's power band. I can't speak
for the Subaru 2.5L engine (at least not until next week
but on a Corolla 1.6L AWD wagon I keep the RPM's between
3 and 4000.

In my mind the engine is more efficient in the proper gear
with the intake hardly open (if you can still say this with
fuel injected engines) than in a higher gear with the intake
wide open trying to make up for the wrong gearing.

Especially if you accelerate, even just a bit. In a gear too
high you have to open the intake more, which causes too
much fuel to be used (again, my experience is with carbs).

So, I may be wrong, but in my mind an engine running easily
at a higher RPM will be more fuel efficient than one slugging
along at too low an RPM.

Also, with a manual, the idea is to use the brakes as little
as possible. In the proper gear if you press the pedal the
car accelerates and if you let it go, the car decelerates.
The really nice thing about AWD is that this fine control is
present on each wheel, which makes for a very balanced and
enjoyable ride.

If you're in too high a gear and let your foot off the gas
pedal, you'll just coast like with an automatic transmission,
and have to use the brakes to slow down.

If you're in the power band, most driving is thus done with
the gas pedal. It's worth practicing downshifting (you have
to raise the rpms a bit while the clutch is disengaged so
that when you let the clutch out, the engine is already turning
at the proper RPMs for the lower gear. With practice you can
continue engine braking this way smoothly down the gears.
(and heads will turn at the cool sounding engine noises .

Another advantage of being in the power band is that should you
have to accelerate, everything is already just right and
response is instantaneous.

 

[Bill Putney]

...I was taught (back in the 60's) that you shouldn't "lug" an engine because
you'll build up carbon deposits.

Also because it's hard on the crank and rod bearings (more pressure and
more time for oil to squeeze out at lower rotational speed allowing
metal-to-metal contact) - still a consideration. Also detonation
damaging pistons and bearings - but knock sensors and computers take
care of that issue now - but why force it into a retarded timing/less
efficient operating mode? Best from all considerations to keep the revs
reasonably up (no extremes one way or the other).

...Otherwise,
leave the clutch engaged so engine braking will help you slow down.

Yep - adds to brake life.

Bill Putney
(to reply by e-mail, replace the last letter of the alphabet in my
address with "x")

 

[André Conradie]

The most important thing about cornering with so-called stick, is that you
should brake and change gears BEFORE entering the turn. Obviously changing
gears/braking/riding on the clutch while in a corner gives you less control
and time to react, and can be dangerous.

Few other points:

You can drive as slowly as you like in top gear, just "listen" to your car.
It will tell you whether its happy or not, by shuddering, rattling or
knocking.

Also: never keep your changing hand resting on the gear lever or your foot
on the clutch- the little pressure adds to wear.

PS: Here in SA, we all get taught "stick", since you may not manual stick
cars if you got yor license with an auto.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

Additionally, lugging the engine increases time/fuel during each power
stroke increasing heat. Some cooling occurs just by getting the exhaust
gasses outta there.

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

 

[J999w]

The owners manual should have a little diagram showing what gear to use at
various speeds. I tend to run the engine between 2,000 and 4,000 rpm. ('92
Subaru Legacy, 2.2L 16v, 5sp, AWD, 210k miles).
I get about 28mpg city, 32mpg highway.

jw
milwaukee

 

[TransFixed]

Paul Pedersen wrote:
....

In my mind the engine is more efficient in the proper gear
with the intake hardly open (if you can still say this with
fuel injected engines) than in a higher gear with the intake
wide open trying to make up for the wrong gearing.

Especially if you accelerate, even just a bit. In a gear too
high you have to open the intake more, which causes too
much fuel to be used (again, my experience is with carbs).

So, I may be wrong, but in my mind an engine running easily
at a higher RPM will be more fuel efficient than one slugging
along at too low an RPM.

Gasoline engines are most efficient at wide open throttle and low rpm.
Period.

However, as has been mentioned above, lugging an engine will lead to
premature wear. So if you keep the rpms too low, especially under
power, you may save a tiny bit on gas, but your engine may only last
100,000 miles rather than 200,000.

- D.

 

[Tony Hwang]

Paul Pedersen wrote:
...



Gasoline engines are most efficient at wide open throttle and low rpm.
Period.

However, as has been mentioned above, lugging an engine will lead to
premature wear. So if you keep the rpms too low, especially under
power, you may save a tiny bit on gas, but your engine may only last
100,000 miles rather than 200,000.

- D.

Hi,
I think my definition of efficiency is best MPG. Maintaining highest
manifold vacuum is it. Vacuum gauge on the dash is very useful.
Tony

 

[Bruce Hoult]

Gasoline engines are most efficient at wide open throttle and low rpm.
Period.

However, as has been mentioned above, lugging an engine will lead to
premature wear. So if you keep the rpms too low, especially under
power, you may save a tiny bit on gas, but your engine may only last
100,000 miles rather than 200,000.

- D.

Hi,
I think my definition of efficiency is best MPG. Maintaining highest
manifold vacuum is it. Vacuum gauge on the dash is very useful.[/QUOTE]

You're both correct.

The reason you're talking past each other is that the engine in your car
is far too powerful for the job it is doing most of the time. You'd get
*much* better fuel economy by driving a car with a 500cc engine that
needed your foot flat to the boards in order to do 65 mph. You just
wouldn't enjoy it. Bu then that applies to always keeping a high
manifold vacuum too

A small engine with nitrous or a turbo is a good compromise.

-- Bruce