Hybrid Subaru engine?

[Bryan]

My mind always wrestles: WRX or hybrid? WRX or hybrid?

I guess the greener side is starting to win, but I'll be a Subie driver
forever (got a '99 Forester for now . Has anyone caught word of Subaru
developing a hybrid engine?

Bryan

 

[TG]

Then hybrids I see on the market are not all that "green". TG

 

[Anthony]

Then hybrids I see on the market are not all that "green". TG

Especially when you consider all that lead and acid they're toting around.

Tony

 

[Bryan]

It's all relative. Ideally we wouldn't be driving cars, right? I figure 30+
miles per gallon is better than <30.

B

 

[GTT]

It's all relative. Ideally we wouldn't be driving cars, right? I figure 30+
miles per gallon is better than <30.

B

Plus, I imagine they do not get all their electric power from wind-driven
generators, do they? Some may even have consumed "contaminated" energy
that came from fossil fuel! (gasp, etc., you mean like coal, refined
petroleum products? Oh tell me it isn't so.)

 

[TG]

Well, actually the hybrids get the electric power from the vehicle itself
when coasting or decelerating. TG

 

[Jason Kavanaugh]

It's all relative. Ideally we wouldn't be driving cars, right? I figure 30+
miles per gallon is better than <30.

B

We get 24-26 on highway in my fiancee's WRX. I drive it
conservatively, when I get on it of course the mileage goes in the
crapper. So the Subaru's do get decent mileage. The problem is the
F-350 type trucks and the big SUV's that all get single digit gas
mileage. I think as long as you steer away from those you are doing
good enough.

Jason Kavanaugh

 

[GTT]

One of us is missing something. I asked if they were still consuming
energy from fossil fuels. Your reply seems to argue that point.

Agree the hybrids can store energy during coasting or decelerating, but I'm
not sure how you believe they got up to speed in the first place without the
energy from fossil fuels? Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Seems to me they MUST consume energy from fossil fuels in one form or
another. So they are, as an earlier post said, "Not all that green."

 

[Anthony]

One of us is missing something. I asked if they were still consuming
energy from fossil fuels. Your reply seems to argue that point.

Agree the hybrids can store energy during coasting or decelerating, but I'm
not sure how you believe they got up to speed in the first place without the
energy from fossil fuels? Do you see what I'm trying to say?

Seems to me they MUST consume energy from fossil fuels in one form or
another. So they are, as an earlier post said, "Not all that green."

Another point to consider is that a conventional car with that meek of
performance would also get about the same mileage as the more expensive
hybrid. Like the Suzuki Sprint (aka Geo Metro.)

 

[Paul Pluzhnikov]

One of us is missing something.

You are.

Seems to me they MUST consume energy from fossil fuels in one form or
another. So they are, as an earlier post said, "Not all that green."

They do consume fossil fuel (no argument about that), but that
doesn't make them any less "green".

A normal car, going once around the block, burns some amount of
gas and dissipates *all* the energy into heat: some part of it
goes into rolling resistance (heating the tires and the pavement),
most of it goes into heating the brakes (and the air around them).

A hybrid car doesn't heat its brakes: it uses the "excess" energy
to recharge its battery instead (regenerative braking). On the next
trip around the block it need not use any gas at all, it could just
use the excess battery charge saved from previous trip.

In all situations where a lot of braking is required (mountain
driving, city driving, LA stop-and-go freeway driving) a hybrid
car will be *much* "greener" (when measured by MPG).

That's why trolleybuses make a lot of sense in San Francisco
(lots of steep hills, frequent stops).

According to BC Transit Vancouver, tolleybuses are at least 2.5 times
more energy efficient, than diesel buses (which in turn are about
10 times more energy efficient per person than a private auto):

http://www.vcn.bc.ca/t2000bc/learning/vancouver/operating_stats.html
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/t2000bc/debate/issues/efficiency.html

Cheers,

 

[Bryan]

Of COURSE hybrid engines still consume fuels. They have chemical batteries,
they have parts that don't sound all that conservation-friendly etc.; I
don't understand all the little jabs after the original post, but I guess
that's the beauty of newsgroups.

What's missing, "GTT" is the answer to my original question: Did anyone hear
if Subaru is planning a hybrid engine????!!! A simple "no" would've
sufficed.

I appreciate all the input (both sarcastic and constructive) that makes this
newsgroup so interesting, and at the risk of more flames I'll just say this
to close the original thread:

I'm sticking with Suabrus, I'll look for a WRX, and now it's time to go
skiing.

Have fun y'all.

B

 

[TG]

I misunderstood, I have heard people talk about the consequences of
producing electricity for a purely electric vehicles and I thought that is
what you meant, sorry. TG

 

[TG]

Meek? The Civic hybrid will blow away either of my Legacys and get way
better mileage doing it. Hybrids have come a long way. Now the Metro or
Toyota Echo...those are meek and very plain Jane..not much of a car. The
Civic is real nice car. TG

 

[Dan Duncan]

Especially when you consider all that lead and acid they're toting around.

1) The batteries in the current crop are NiMH.
2) Even lead acid batteries are CONTAINED and RECYCLABLE. If you take
into account the fuel savings, the amount of emissions NOT put
into the atmosphere exceed the contents of the batteries.
3) I figure pollutants dispersed into the air are worse than pollutants
contained in a nice little box where they can be reprocessed.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

-DanD

 

[Dan Duncan]

Plus, I imagine they do not get all their electric power from wind-driven
generators, do they? Some may even have consumed "contaminated" energy
that came from fossil fuel! (gasp, etc., you mean like coal, refined
petroleum products? Oh tell me it isn't so.)

Hybrid electrics get their power from the same place as regular cars.

They burn gasoline. (until they progress to burning diesel or LP or NG)

The point is they burn LESS gasoline to accomplish the same task.
(IE, they are more efficient)

-DanD

 

[Dan Duncan]

Another point to consider is that a conventional car with that meek of
performance would also get about the same mileage as the more expensive
hybrid. Like the Suzuki Sprint (aka Geo Metro.)

Your information is years out of date.

There are hybrid designs with far superior performance to their
normally powered counterparts. 2 examples can be found here:
http://www.rnw.nl/science/html/031215wheel.html
http://www.evworld.com/archives/reports/humvee99.html

Both above designs differ considerably from the available crop
of hybrid electric cars, and I consider them to be FAR superior.
They use electric motors at the wheel, run on diesel, and don't
directly couple the engine to the wheels so the engine can run
at a fixed rpm for peak efficiency and lowest emissions.

I hope cars will follow their lead in the near future.

-DanD

 

[GTT]

Oh! So you're one of those guys who expects a direct answer to a simple
question, huh? Well, those can be hard to find! <grin> But you're correct
about the beauty of newsgroups as well as about other points you've made.

Simple answer to your question -- as you state it below -- is this: I
HAVE heard Subaru is researching a hybrid, but whether the source was an
authority, I can not say.

Another feature of newsgroups is that the information you get is worth what
at least what you paid for it. I've never been interested much in a hybrid
at this point in my life so I relegated that to the "rumors heard" file and
moved on.

I still have problems believing a hybrid can win any sort of performance
comparison with a working Subaru or Accord or Suzuki. Just before I bought
my 04 Forester, I test-drove a Honda and talked at length with the salesman
about the current Honda line-up. When asked about their hybrid, he was very
definite in saying that he'd driven them and would personally not buy one
because of their poor performance and comfort. (I took that to mean "room
to sit comfortably.")

After someone who should know some facts came up with that opinion, I
stepped back, again, from thinking favorably about a hybrid. I drove two
new Hondas, then bought a Forester.

In the interest of trying to be helpful, I'll repeat your question and see
wha' hoppens.

Does anyone know if Subaru is planning a hybrid?

 

[GTT]

Hybrid electrics get their power from the same place as regular cars.

They burn gasoline. (until they progress to burning diesel or LP or NG)

The point is they burn LESS gasoline to accomplish the same task.
(IE, they are more efficient)

-DanD

Okay, Dan, I can accept that and agree with it.

I suppose the basic questions come down to "can I afford that level of
efficiency?" and "Am I willing to live with the levels of comfort and
convenience that come with that level of efficiency?" If the answer to
both questions is "yes" then one begins to move in that direction.

Since I consider reliability to be a major factor in "cost" then I'd also
want to know more of the unknown costs of maintaining such a vehicle. I've
replaced a Nickel metal hydride battery in my phone for $60 and wonder about
the cost and reliability of a NiMH battery sized to power a car? An
uneducated guess would be several thousand dollars. But it is an unknown
(to me), as is the expected battery life.

I do not care how attractive the car is, or how efficient it might be.
Before I invest $25K in a car, I'd have to know a lot more about such
factors as reliability and costs of maintenance.

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

http://tinyurl.com/3avos

Carl
1 Lucky Texan

My mind always wrestles: WRX or hybrid? WRX or hybrid?

I guess the greener side is starting to win, but I'll be a Subie driver
forever (got a '99 Forester for now . Has anyone caught word of Subaru
developing a hybrid engine?

Bryan

 

[mac]

what about the pollutants required to recarge these beauties?

the only way to accurately value total pollution output is on a
well-to-wheels basis.

Ford has a motor for the Focus that is cleaner than a Prius when calculated
well-to-wheel. California agrees and grants is a zero pollution rating.

the engine just happens to have more torque and not much less hp than a svt!