Coolant

[Rick Courtright]

I've heard enough horror stories about silicate gelling to conclude that it's not
worth using yellow-green Prestone in sub 2-gallon capacity Japanese
radiator.

Not that it will change your mind, but my Subie went over 300k miles on
the original radiator before I replaced it. It started running a bit
warm starting the climb up to the local mountains during the heat of
summer (100 def F and above in my area) but didn't actually overheat.
The car's got 354k miles right now.

My Toyota Camry went 168k miles before the radiator was replaced due to
a leak caused by impact with some road debris. It's now got 215k miles.
Cooling system's spotless.

My Toyota truck had 136k miles on the original radiator, which was also
spotless, when it was stolen. It replaced a VW Rabbit that had 189k
miles when I sold it, again, with a spotless radiator. My brother's
usually traded his Hondas and Nissans at around 150k, a buddy's wife is
closing in on 200k with her Camry. Their experiences mirror mine
(despite Honda's warning to use only their brand of coolant, at least in
later models.)

I could relate more, but my point remains that if you use regular green
Prestone coolant with DISTILLED water, I think the horror stories are
overblown. Not that I'm standing up for Prestone, but since they sell
about a zillion gallons of their product each year, if they were really
responsible for so much damage, I'd think they'd be changing things.
(Think back to DuPont Zerex with the anti-leak formula of the early
'70s--DuPont bought a few engines and pulled the stuff off the market
muy pronto.) As to the experience with the shade tree guy, I guess that
might explain why I do my own work whenever possible--assuming he used
the entire gallon of coolant with only half a gallon of distilled water,
I can come up with several things that could be wrong with that picture.

Nothing wrong with going silicate free if you wish. Just remember the
sky's NOT gonna fall if you can't find it (though it shouldn't be
hard--IIRC, Havoline was silicate free for years before any of the
others, probably still is, and is relatively widely distributed at least
for those here in the US. For the greatest peace of mind, get your
coolant from your dealer parts dept.)

Rick

 

[CompUser]

H&K's always been way out of my price range (using the theory that even
with unlimited amounts of money--not my problem!--there's a right price
for everything, which they exceed!) so I'll take your word on their
quality.

They're good, but I don't feel they are worth the
premium H&K exacted on the civilian market for
years...haven't looked lately so I don't know if
they're still high or not. See more below.

Comes Field Trial Day 1, and 246 Panzers were sent out in the morning
for testing. At sundown, 64 were still running. The rest were broken
down, and couldn't be fixed until technicians and parts were brought in
from Berlin to try to get them going again, which was nigh on impossible
under field conditions. (Sound familiar to any owners of current German
cars? The more things change, the more they stay the same?)

You can go to accounts of the war on the Eastern Front to see how the
T-34s fared!

Yeah...I'd be surprised if there aren't some 34s
still in service, somewhere around the globe.
Again, quite a contrast in approaches...I'm sure
the H&K "systems" are products of engineering
committees. Compare that too what some call the
best assault rifle ever designed, the
Kalashnikov...designed by no less than a buck
sergeant, T-34 driver...as sophisticated as the
H&K design is, the AK is butt ugly simple, strong
and reliable. To maintain some impartiality
here, I'll have to sling mud on our 16 too...it
poops where it eats and is also a bit overdone,
in the engineering "solutions" department.

Since the likes of Browning, I'd have to say that
only Kalashnikov came close. At a recent
birthday celebration, K reportedly commented that
he wished he "had invented a lawnmower."

Steve

 

[y_p_w]

y_p_w wrote:

I could relate more, but my point remains that if you use regular green
Prestone coolant with DISTILLED water, I think the horror stories are
overblown. Not that I'm standing up for Prestone, but since they sell
about a zillion gallons of their product each year, if they were really
responsible for so much damage, I'd think they'd be changing things.
(Think back to DuPont Zerex with the anti-leak formula of the early
'70s--DuPont bought a few engines and pulled the stuff off the market
muy pronto.) As to the experience with the shade tree guy, I guess that
might explain why I do my own work whenever possible--assuming he used
the entire gallon of coolant with only half a gallon of distilled water,
I can come up with several things that could be wrong with that picture.

Nah - he never touched the distilled water. He seemed to have used
the right amount of coolant. He just sort of blew me off about the
distilled water. Our municipal water supply is exceptionally soft
though. I don't particularly trust the guy, but it was my mom's car,
and she insisted on using him. I've since learned to do it myself.
I wouldn't let him touch any car I own, but my folks still insist
that he work on their cars.

Nothing wrong with going silicate free if you wish. Just remember the
sky's NOT gonna fall if you can't find it (though it shouldn't be
hard--IIRC, Havoline was silicate free for years before any of the
others, probably still is, and is relatively widely distributed at least
for those here in the US. For the greatest peace of mind, get your
coolant from your dealer parts dept.)

It's $15 for a gallon of uncut OEM coolant at the dealer vs $7 for a
bottle of yellow Prestone at Wal-Mart. Given a 2 gallon capacity
and a change period of 30K miles/30 months, I figure the difference
in cost is neglible.

I've seen one heavy-duty coolant manufacturer's info referring to
silicate gelling as "green goo". Almost all makers of silicated
coolants say they have a rather limited shelf life (18 months). You
theorized that perhaps hard water has an effect on silicate gelling,
and some of the info seems to back that claim up. At the very least,
almost every auto manufacturer is going to lower silicate coolants.

However, most of the info I've seen indicates that silicate gel isn't
water soluble, and that restoring a gelled system requires a lot of
effort:

<http://www.frontierpower.ca/service/lowsilicate.htm>

"Unfortunately, there are few effective methods for cleaning the gel
from an already-clogged system. Radiators must be removed and sent out
for a thorough cleaning. The engine must be flushed with a caustic
solution. The gel is not water soluble, so flushing with water alone
will not work."