'04 Impreza Wagon Purchase

[PlayfulSpirit]

I posted a while back regarding an '03 Impreza that had
been used as a dealer service vehicle. For several
reasons, many discussed here, I've decided against
it.

I have made an offer on an '04 Impreza Wagon and
they have accepted. With rebates and a low interest
finance rate, it's a great deal.

However, I am troubled by what I read in regard to
Subaru's reliability ( below that of Toyota and Honda)
and suggestions that they are so mechanically
complicated that repairs (when you can find
competent service) is very expensive.

I'm looking for a vehicle that I can keep for many
years and which won't cost me too much if I keep it
serviced so I'm wondering if this really is the right
purchase for me.

I'd appreciate any input - good or bad - that might
help me make my decision.

Thank you!

 

[GTT]

Well, you don't sound too playful tonight!

If you really want an accurate opinion sample, you've GOT TO START WITH a
representative group.

That would not be the group who post in a forum such as this one. Folks who
post here probably fall into 3 or more sub-groups. One would be folks who
have problems with their car. Another would be folks who are knowledgeable
about their cars and like to share that knowledge & help other folks out.
There would also be folks, like maybe you and I, who wonder if we should buy
one, what sort of questions to ask, how much should we pay, etc. My
opinion is that what you read here does not represent the larger group of
Subie Owners!

Before I bought mine, I began the practice (which embarrassed my wife) of
stopping folks driving Subies on the street, in parking lots, malls, etc.
and asking two questions; how long have you had it and would you buy
another? It doesn't get more random, more objective, than that!

I bought a Subie, that was what decided it for me. (But, at one point, I
almost changed my mind after reading this newsgroup for a couple of months.)
I finally had to think it through. What I've said here represents my
conclusions, as I did just that.

 

[PlayfulSpirit]

GTT wrote in message ...

Well, you don't sound too playful tonight!

If you really want an accurate opinion sample, you've GOT TO START WITH a
representative group.

That would not be the group who post in a forum such as this one. Folks who
post here probably fall into 3 or more sub-groups. One would be folks who
have problems with their car. Another would be folks who are knowledgeable
about their cars and like to share that knowledge & help other folks out.
There would also be folks, like maybe you and I, who wonder if we should buy
one, what sort of questions to ask, how much should we pay, etc. My
opinion is that what you read here does not represent the larger group of
Subie Owners!

Before I bought mine, I began the practice (which embarrassed my wife) of
stopping folks driving Subies on the street, in parking lots, malls, etc.
and asking two questions; how long have you had it and would you buy
another? It doesn't get more random, more objective, than that!

I bought a Subie, that was what decided it for me. (But, at one point, I
almost changed my mind after reading this newsgroup for a couple of months.)
I finally had to think it through. What I've said here represents my
conclusions, as I did just that.

While I find your pontifications quite fascinating, they are not really
very helpful. (How's that for playful?) ;-)

I'd like to know what made you decide to buy the vehicle. How long have
you owned it? Have you had any trouble with it? Is it expensive to
repair?
Do you have trouble obtaining parts? Are there problems you didn't
expect? Are you sorry you purchased it? That kind of thing....

I think this is the perfect forum for discussions such as these. Who
better
to advise a newbie than owners who obviously know the vehicles so well.
Besides, on the one occassion I approached a stranger to ask him about
his Subaru, he misunderstood my motives. He thought I was trying to pick him
up! I spent the next 30 minutes trying to dodge him in Costco ! I think
an NG is a much safer place. =)

I hope some of you will be willing to share your stories about why you
bought your cars and how you rate them after having owned them for a
while.

Thanks !

 

[sandman]

I too did a lot of research (2 years) on subies and stopped a few people
asking them about their subies. All praises from them. So, we now have a 03
TS wagon after all that research. Almost ended up with a Forester if not for
the cruise control in the TS (finally). The TS wagon is the best bang for
the buck as it's loaded...etc. After much of fully testing in the brutal
snowstorms of New York state last year this Christmas, we're happy with our
purchase. Easy to drive, good power for automatic, easy to park, great in
Snow/beach sand even with the not-so-good Re92's. Decided to continue using
the RE-92's this winter. Our FWD car would never have made it though the
storm that close the I 87 last year. After one year, it's drives perfectly
with no problems. Just one thing, the oil change is a bit too expensive
compared to other makes I think. $50 something dollars for an oilchange at
Willowdale Subaru with some checks at the dealer is a bit too much!. !@#$%!!
Wonder what are the other prices in the Greater Toronto area? Anyone? If you
have reservations about your purchase, take a holiday drive to New England.
Vermont/Hampshire area and almost every other car is a Subie. I still
wished we're gotten the Forester intead. I like the new front look very
much. Maybe next purchase......cheers.

ST

 

[Dominic Richens]

I'd appreciate any input - good or bad - that might
help me make my decision.

I echo pretty much what has been said so far in this thread, but would like
to add a little bit of my own bias

As an engineer, I echew complex solutions to simple problems, no matter how
sexy they seem. I like Subaru because they seem to have a soundly
engineered base product. For what I can only describe as "marketing", they
also offer a lot of sexy complicated options, that I can simply choose to
avoid.

I do all the regular scheduled service at the dealer because they have a
good rep - and have enjoyed many free ~40min rides to work after dropping
the car off with many different Soobie owners - the only ones that complain
about them are about automatic electronic everything cars - especially
during really cold spells (Ottawa).

My Subie Wagon is as basic as they come: 5MT, 2.2L engine, AWD (vicous
center diff - no fancy electronic clutch packs), manual windows, locks, not
even A/C! The only thing power is the side mirrors because it is our one
car and my wife and I both need the mirrors in different positions...her
idea, which I initially cursed her for, but really appreciate now

Aside from the clutch, a half-shaft and oil-pump seal, the car has gone 8
years and 160,000km with no surprises.

So yes, I would gladly buy another Subaru - but it would be the cheapest,
most basic stripped down, manual everything version you could buy.

 

[Edward Hayes]

I always go to CONSUMER PRPORTS to get an overall comparison of vehicle
reliability. I read that they only publish results on vehicles that they
have data on for a MINIMUM of 1,500 owners surveyed. They also cover the
same vehicle for 5 years so you see a pattern of repairs for 1500+ vehicles
for EACH year. Although there still may be a small amount of bias it is SO
much better statistically than asking a stranger or my neighbor. Subaru
shows up as good as Honda and Toyota ( within the statistical significance).
This group is great but we should remember that many of us are enthusiast
and tend to be more picky and drive in a more spirited manor. My neighbor
purchased a Toyota Solaria and is an easy driver who follows ALL recommended
maintained recommended by Toyota. In 40,000 miles of driving he has had
(under warranty) the engine control module, rear wheel bearing and last
month a transmission replaced. Unusual? yes and if I depended on his
experience I would never buy a Toyota. Point made?? I drive a 2000 Forester
and likewise follow the recommendations of Subaru. I now have 62,000 miles
on my vehicle I had to replace the gas cap gasket and it leaked and the CEL
light keep on on. Am I luck?? I think not. eddie.

 

[Clive]

I'm on my 3rd Subaru in 8 years,
2 Impreza turbos (Currently WRX 5 door)
and an auto Forester Sport turbo with all the
gadgets, all of which worked all the time.
Zero defects in every case.
Bear in mind that fuel costs will
be higher mainly due to AWD and
directly proportional to fun factor
required. I drive mine hard where practical.
Like you, I asked opinions, read reviews
before buying and soon found I was the one
people stopped to ask my opinion of the
car...including the police...as it was very rare
then but with a big reputation.
Buy with confidence.
-
Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.mightymite.com
www.svetlana-tubes.com
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com

 

[David & Caroline]

Well - I think Subaru's have a pretty good rep, and that was at least part
of why I bought mine (an 02 WRX wagon) - not a day has gone by where that
car hasn't impressed me! While the drivetrain is certainly more complex
than a simple fwd, most of the other components are about the same (the fact
that it's a flat-4 doesn't really even come into play unless things go
really wrong.) - service wise, for most things, I am surprised it would be
more expensive for a Subaru - compared to my last car (Toyota Corolla) this
car is wonderful to work on, and everything is easy to get to. If you look
at Consumer reports, and compare the Honda Civic/Accord and Toyota
Corolla/Camry to the Subaru Impreza, you will see that the 5 cars are all
about the same - in some cases (older Corollas, as an example) the Impreza
is noteably better.

Most cars, nowadays, will last a good long time if you take care of them
(i.e., don't just do the bare minimum service). But note that every
manufacturer has an occasional car which has issues - take the Solara posted
above - normally a very reliable car, but I bet that guy wouldn't say that!

If you like the car, go for it!

 

[ct]

However, I am troubled by what I read in regard to

Subaru's reliability ( below that of Toyota and Honda)
and suggestions that they are so mechanically
complicated that repairs (when you can find
competent service) is very expensive.

I dunno. I've found my local dealership (Flatirons in Boulder) has been
pretty decent w/respect to repairs. I've got a '98OBW with 118k and no
problems...the only issues have been caused by my stupidity (off-roading and
cracking the header), somebody else's (rear bumper/exhaust broken after a
collision) or bad service somewhere other than the dealership (didn't use
the jack points correctly, bent pieces so they touched the diff
housing...made a great amplifier for vibrations!).

The Outback has really performed well for me...I wouldn't hesitate to
recommend it. It does great in the snow, handles well for a station wagon,
and carries a bunch of stuff. Can't beat it.

C

 

[GTT]

GTT wrote in message ...

While I find your pontifications quite fascinating, they are not really
very helpful. (How's that for playful?) ;-)

I'd like to know what made you decide to buy the vehicle. How long have
you owned it? Have you had any trouble with it? Is it expensive to
repair?
Do you have trouble obtaining parts? Are there problems you didn't
expect? Are you sorry you purchased it? That kind of thing....

I think this is the perfect forum for discussions such as these. Who
better
to advise a newbie than owners who obviously know the vehicles so well.
Besides, on the one occassion I approached a stranger to ask him about
his Subaru, he misunderstood my motives. He thought I was trying to pick him
up! I spent the next 30 minutes trying to dodge him in Costco ! I think
an NG is a much safer place. =)

I hope some of you will be willing to share your stories about why you
bought your cars and how you rate them after having owned them for a
while.

Thanks !

Okay! You are more playful now, but still not very intuitive!

Everything I said is valid and I'd not change a single point. But since
your first note, you seem to have taken a new direction. From your first
post, I got that you'd been reading this ng to get helpful information, but
all the problems you saw were not having that effect on your deliberation.

I said, and I'll repeat it, that this newsgroup is NOT a representative
sample of Subie owners. Most folks who write in must have a reason and I
proposed three possible such reasons, above.

I've read a few posts who said "I've had my Subie for 4 months and I love
it."

Very few. This is not the "give us your opinion of Subies" net. It is
where folks come to discuss problems they have and if all you read about are
problems, you soon get an idea which is, I sincerely hope, inaccurate! I
find this group extremely helpful, and some of the comments indicate folks
that have lots of experience with cars in general and Subies in particular.
One regular poster may have once been a service advisor for Subaru dealer,
he sounds that knowledgeable!

I found my idea about asking strangers to be very beneficial to my research.

They were just standing there, or sitting there, minding their own business
and I pounced on them with my questions. I was amazed at how enthusiastic
they became, getting out of their cars to show me around and give me a much
longer spiel than I had expected. No one expected me to show up, but they
were all glad to report their experiences. They had no problems to report,
and all would obviously buy a Subie again. That made a very good
impression on me.

What more information can you ask? How much more random and representative
a sample can you expect to find in a group? Local Subie owners.... Just
like I wanted to be.

But after months of reading this Ng, I was now aware of the dreaded "piston
slap" the problems with defective windshield glass, bad problems with the
keyless door unlocking
system, etc. etc. Almost discouraged me, and that was what I thought I saw
trying to come through in your first post..

But it did not quite discourage me, for now I are one!
Owner, that is.

I can't be much help to you, but I'll play the game:

My Opinion
I've had my Subie one month, driven it 6,000 miles, and had no problem with
it except I wish it got better gas mileage. (but now I know exactly why my
mileage got so bad in NM last week! And I hope the darned automatic
climate control system keeps working because I still haven't figured it out!

Poor you, when you tried parking lot sampling! Darn guy thought you were
trying to pick him up, huh? Dodging him in Costco, sounds like a story for
Life In These United States in RD! Cute! I guess you are cursed with
being young and attractive and female. Now that's a problem I don't have.
Oh well, we all have problems. Could be worse! Good luck!

 

[James]

I'd appreciate any input - good or bad - that might
help me make my decision.

Thank you!

I've owned my Forester for 11 months, right at 9400 miles. My only
complaint has been the auto climate control in the winter. It seems
to draw too much cold air into the cabin.

Mechanically it has been flawless. Misc problems include a stuck
sunroof (in open position), got it closed with the manual tool (major
pain in the a**), it repaired itself and never has failed again. The
driver side window would rattle if you closed it while the door was
shut, opening/closing the door would get rid of the noise--once again
this problem took care of itself, it's been 2 months since this has
happened! Most recently something was "popping" in the drivers seat
while driving over the last three weeks--again, for some strange
reason, this problem has resolved itself. Someone told me Subarus get
better with age...I believe them!!!

We also had a '01 Outback LLBean. In the 23000 miles we owned it, we
never experienced a single problem.

I drive 55 miles to Garcia Subaru in Albuquerque. They are fantastic
to deal with! Very reasonable too!

James
'03 Subaru Forester XS-P
'03 Infiniti FX35/AWD/Tech
Santa Fe, New Mexico

 

[Ken Gilbert]

with no problems. Just one thing, the oil change is a bit too expensive

compared to other makes I think. $50 something dollars for an oilchange at
Willowdale Subaru with some checks at the dealer is a bit too much!. !@#$%!!

the subie impreza is just about the easiest car in the world to change
the oil and filter in.

no jacks, no ramps, one wrench, one filter, and about 4 qts of oil.

do it yourself and save a bundle!

jm2c
ken

 

[Ron Ginter]

I found my idea about asking strangers to be very beneficial to my research.

They were just standing there, or sitting there, minding their own business
and I pounced on them with my questions. I was amazed at how enthusiastic
they became, getting out of their cars to show me around and give me a much
longer spiel than I had expected. No one expected me to show up, but they
were all glad to report their experiences. They had no problems to report,
and all would obviously buy a Subie again. That made a very good
impression on me.

Just to add another data point...

Last night I was getting my hair cut, and happened to mention my Forester
in passing. The barber got all excited and told me about his '91 Legacy
that now has 275000 miles on it and has never given him a moment of
trouble.

For the record, I've had my '02 Forester for nearly two years now, and I'm
closing in on 30,000 km. I had the clutch shimmy, and they put a new
clutch in without hassle, and that's been it for problems.

....Ron

 

[H. Whelply]

...Before I bought mine, I began the practice (which embarrassed my wife) of
stopping folks driving Subies on the street, in parking lots, malls, etc.
and asking two questions; how long have you had it and would you buy
another? It doesn't get more random, more objective, than that!

I did the same thing! What struck me is that every single Subie owner I
spoke to didn't merely like the car, they gushed about it!

As for the randomness of the procedure, technically I don't think it is. You
sampled the people who happened to be where you were at the time. You didn't
have an equal chance of talking to any Subie owner/driver in a particular
population.

 

[2 Stroke]

I have to strongly agree with GTT and ask you to take notice: One of
the main reasons for the existence of this group is to help people
resolve problems with their cars. The group is HEAVILY skewed towards
reporting and discussing problems. As an example, when someone brings
up an ABS problem with their Impreza, all the people who have ever had
that problem with THEIR Impreza, and some of the people that have only
HEARD about that problem, join the discussion. It makes it seem like
that's a HUGE problem that lots of people have, when in reality, its
just due to the nature of this forum. Very few posts say "I drove to
work each day this week without incident". And by the way, we like it
like that. :-} </pontificate>

With that out of the way, I bought a "new" 2003 WRX wagon in April of
this year Santa Monica Subaru. The "check engine light" came on as I
drove home from the dealership. The car had over 100 miles on it, and
someone had removed a little hose under the hood that connects to the
turbo. It makes lots more power like that until the ECU sees too much
pressure and cuts the fuel completely. Anyway, this was a problem
that was created by someone at the dealership, or someone they let
drive the car, or possibly somebody who needed one of those hoses. It
wasn't something Subaru did when they built it. The service dept. at
Santa Monica was clueless, couldn't fix it. After a couple weeks, I
took it to Irvine Subaru, where the problem was fixed immediately at
no charge. No problems since then, and the car already has 18,000
spirited miles on the odometer. Hope this helps.

===================================================

 

[GTT]

wife)

I did the same thing! What struck me is that every single Subie owner I
spoke to didn't merely like the car, they gushed about it!

As for the randomness of the procedure, technically I don't think it is. You
sampled the people who happened to be where you were at the time. You didn't
have an equal chance of talking to any Subie owner/driver in a particular
population.

Well, to me it was like "throwing a dart" at a board filled with names. I
just happened to hit those drivers. Seemed pretty random to me!

And as for the previous comment about the oil change, they don't cost me
that much, so far. I've had two already! But I have learned on this
newsgroup that it certainly pays to use original equipment filters when
changing the oil!

This is really a very helpful group of folks here. But it is mainly
problems and questions that dominate the postings. And I, still, refuse to
accept that as typical of Subarus!

 

[Stv]

However, I am troubled by what I read in regard to

Subaru's reliability

I'm looking for a vehicle that I can keep for many
years

I have a 2002 WRX sportwagon with 50,000+ mi. I bought it in September,
2001.

Problems:
1. An occasional "rattle" from the clutch when in 3rd gear under light or
no-load situations around 10,000 mi. Subaru replaced the clutch.

2. A small crack appeared in the windshield on the inside below where the
dash meets the windshield. Subaru replaced it.

3. I had the transmission oil changed at 40,000 mi. and the same day, the
1st gear syncos seemed to stop working. I now double clutch when going into
1st above about 3-4 mph. Many others have reported the same thing. I wish I
had left it alone.

4. The bezel around the clock on the dash rattled. I put some tape around
the little clips that hold it on.

This is about all I can think of.

Happy with the car so far? Very! Is it holding up? Seems to be except for
the transmission syncro problem.

2002 WRX Sportwagon
Vishnu Stage Sub-Zero
17" Rota Attacks with Bridgstone S03s