Subaru cars not designed for downshifting?

[paul]

From time to time I have had a problem downshifting from 5th to 4th on my 05
LGT, even with the clutch fully depressed.
I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me that
Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's manual
refers to that. I told him I had never heard of any car that was not
designed to be downshifted and my previous two Subarus did not exhibit that
problem. I have since looked in the owner's manual and cannot find the
reference to which he refers. In factt the manual mentions to downshift when
going down steep grades ( Amazing, I would never have thought of that!).

I should have been informed that they were not designed to be downshifted
before I bought the car.

 

[Edward Hayes]

I think your dealer is misinformed to put it politely. The sincros do
need to be broken-in however and rev matching is a good thing always
and especially when fairly new. JMHO ed

 

[Paul]

I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me that
Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's manual
refers to that.

You hear the darndest things out of the mouths of Subaru dealer
employees. It's sometimes as if no one in the entire organisation
knows anything about their products. Subaru's are not your
everyday Honda or Toyota and you'd think it would be in Subaru's
interest to teach everyone how their models are built and why.

It's all left up to enthusiasts to figure out things for themselves.
Thank God for groups like this one and NASIOC and others.

By the way, I have no problems downshifting my Impreza RS. Even
into first while moving up to 30 kph if I double clutch.

 

[MN]

From time to time I have had a problem downshifting from 5th to 4th on my
05 LGT, even with the clutch fully depressed.
I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me
that Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's
manual refers to that. I told him I had never heard of any car that was
not designed to be downshifted and my previous two Subarus did not exhibit
that problem. I have since looked in the owner's manual and cannot find
the reference to which he refers. In factt the manual mentions to
downshift when going down steep grades ( Amazing, I would never have
thought of that!).

The dealer probably has you for an idiot.

MN

 

[Tom Reingold]

What the heck is the alternative to downshifting? Stopping the car and
starting over from first gear? The mind boggles!

 

[Mike Lloyd]

i have trouble on hard, quick downshifts from 5 to 4 when about to pass in a
blip -- i get locked out of the detent. if i go just slightly slower or
pause then it is all good. but if i move the lever like my life depends on
it (and it may, from time to time) I am S.O.L.

 

[Mark Carroll]

I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me that
Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's manual
refers to that. I told him I had never heard of any car that was not[/QUOTE]
(snip)

How bizarre. I don't even see how that can be mechanically true if you
bother to rev-match as you downshift. My '04 WRX STi's manual says nothing
like that, and it downshifts just fine.

-- Mark

 

[Andre]

This topic was discussed on Miata.Net once and there were a number of
dealers involved in the discussion. The point they made was that in sales,
most people's eyes will glaze over if you talk to them about this stuff when
trying to sell them a car.

Since salesmanship is more important in making the sale then knowing
anything about the product it is left up to the salesman to become familiar
with the vehicles they are selling.

Some will say anything to avoid saying anything bad about a particular car
or product, no matter how supid it sounds when you stop and think about it.

Most made the point that if you want to know about the car, talk about it on
a site like this, if you just want to buy a car, talk to the salesman.

 

[paul]

I have since written to SOA conent of which is below.



Subaru of America, Inc.
Subaru Plaza
P.O. Box 6000
Cherry Hill, NJ 08034-6000
Attn: Customer/Dealer Services



October 6, 2005







Dear Sirs,



Reference: 05 Legacy GT Wagon



This is my third new Subaru but will definitely be my last. The service
advisor has informed me categorically that this model "is not designed for
downshifting", and that the Owner Manual points that out also. I cannot find
reference to that. What am I supposed to do if the traffic slows and then
picks up again, (Stop and change into 1st and start over?)



If that statement is really true and represents the manufacturer's viewpoint
then it should be

clearly marked on a sticker and in all advertising. Why anyone would want
to buy a car which was not designed for downshifting is beyond me. If it is
simply the dealer's opinion based on that assumption from a large number of
consumer complaints then Subaru should issue a recall and refund the
purchase price under the lemon laws.



I had been having a problem downshifting from 5 to 4 regardless of rev
matching and double clutching etc., once or twice a day. The problem
improved immensely when I removed the

original carpet which when installed along with a rubber mat over it
precluded the clutch being depressed to the last 1/8" or so. I had the same
setup on my WRX and never once had the problem. Since removing that mat I
have not had an occasion where it absolutely will not shift but I have
several where it has been notchy and difficult, and it is still only from
5-4.

The car now has 3000 miles.



Another problem which I referred to the dealer was the fact that the remote
door opener often needed 20 pushes and walking around the car, and, as these
newer cars do not even have door key locks the driver has no option but to
keep walking and pointing until getting it just right. On the other hand, in
some situations I can unlock the doors from 100' away. The service advisor
explained that it was building interference. I can understand that if the
building was between the car and the key, but not from 1' away with nothing
in between. I have owned American cars and never had a similar problem.
Again he tells me that there is nothing that can be done to rectify that
problem. That being the case why did Subaru eliminate the door locks? To
keep walking and clicking in 110 weather is no fun and it's probably worse
in rainy places too.



This situation is not acceptable.





Yours truly

 

[phillystyle]

Good letter & good luck.

 

[l.lichtman]

clip) That being the case why did Subaru eliminate the door locks?
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I don't think I would be happy with ANY car that relies entirely on
electronic/electrical door locks. Suppose you lose your keys, along
with the remote? A spare key is easy, but a spare remote? What if the
battery in your remote dies? What if you have a dead car battery?

 

[Jim Stewart]

From time to time I have had a problem downshifting from 5th to 4th on my 05
LGT, even with the clutch fully depressed.
I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me that
Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's manual
refers to that. I told him I had never heard of any car that was not
designed to be downshifted and my previous two Subarus did not exhibit that
problem. I have since looked in the owner's manual and cannot find the
reference to which he refers. In factt the manual mentions to downshift when
going down steep grades ( Amazing, I would never have thought of that!).

I should have been informed that they were not designed to be downshifted
before I bought the car.

And *please* don't tell my Outback that it shouldn't
be downshifted. We've been doing it happily for 6
years and 115,000 miles....

 

[bumpfreaq]

The dealer probably has you for an idiot.

MN

I would say he has an idiot for a dealer.

I have not encountered this problem with my 05 LGT, and I have always
thought that the remote entry on this car is far superior (works
consistantly from a greater distance) to any other car I've owned.

It seems to me the best thing to do is keep bitching until they
properly address your problems.

Good luck,
Chris

 

[hippo]

I have since written to SOA conent of which is below.

(snip text)

I was going to post this anyway but your comment about the mat reinforces
it. Get the dealer to adjust the clutch freeplay with the additional mat
in place. If it's been set without it there, you're eventually going to
stuff up something in the transmission because your clutch won't be fully
disengaging. May not be the problem but it can't hurt! Same thing happened
with my 91 Liberty when I put mats in - very quick self fix and only a bit
longer to set the hill holder back up properly.

My 99 OBW has the same annoying lack of range with the clicker. Maybe it's
to stop some lurking hopeful darting out, jumping into the driver's seat
and hotwiring your pride and joy before you cover the remaining 20 yards
to the door .....? Hmmmm! Cheers

 

[Yousuf Khan]

From time to time I have had a problem downshifting from 5th to 4th on my 05
LGT, even with the clutch fully depressed.
I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me that
Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's manual
refers to that. I told him I had never heard of any car that was not
designed to be downshifted and my previous two Subarus did not exhibit that
problem. I have since looked in the owner's manual and cannot find the
reference to which he refers. In factt the manual mentions to downshift when
going down steep grades ( Amazing, I would never have thought of that!).

I should have been informed that they were not designed to be downshifted
before I bought the car.

I sometimes have the feeling that Subarus are not meant for upshifting
either.

They have one of the most difficult to manage clutches I've ever seen in
a car so far. Often the difference between fully engaged and disengaged
is just microns of travel. That's in my 2000 OBW.

Yousuf Khan

 

[Yousuf Khan]

By the way, I have no problems downshifting my Impreza RS. Even
into first while moving up to 30 kph if I double clutch.

That's interesting, never thought of double-clutching. What's the proper
technique for that? Just clutch, put it into neutral, take your foot off
the clutch and then put it all the way back in again, and then put it
into first?

Yousuf Khan

 

[l.lichtman]

I learned to double-clutch as a kid, riding on school busses, before I
was old enough to drive. It is needed for downshifting a transmission
that does not have syncromesh. The technique is 1.) Step on clutch
2.) Shift to neutral 3.)Foot off clutch 4.) Feed gas to bring engine
speed to match road speed for the gear you're shifting to 5.)
Downshift 6.) Engage clutch. Learning to get the revs right for step
4.) takes practice.

All of this is totally unnecessary on any modern car. Maybe, if you
wore out a synchro, and wanted to save the cost of a tranny repair, you
could do it.

 

[Rick Courtright]

All of this is totally unnecessary on any modern car. Maybe, if you
wore out a synchro, and wanted to save the cost of a tranny repair, you

Hi,

It may or may not help synchros last longer, but it certainly makes
downshifts much smoother so the power transition doesn't happen as a
"bam" kind of situation! Takes a lot of stress off the entire drivetrain
IMO.

I suppose it could be argued with current gearboxes that "rev matching"
would be a better term?

Rick

 

[Rick Courtright]

I mentioned this to the Subaru Dealers' service advisor and he told me that
Subarus were not designed to be downshifted, and that the owner's manual

Does this guy sell swampland on the side? I can't speak to current
Subies, but on those cars of "my" generation (GLs and Loyales) before
Subaru started selling cars in the US with enough power to pull the hat
off your head, shift levers got as much of a workout as the oars on a
rowboat. Not designed to downshift--that's precious!

Rick

 

[Bugalugs]

That's interesting, never thought of double-clutching. What's the proper
technique for that? Just clutch, put it into neutral, take your foot off
the clutch

going good so far but about here, a quick, light, blip on the gas and as
the revs die away ...and then put it all the way back in again, and then
put it