New Member, serious issue, car immobilized

[15XVBlue]

Greetings all. We are quickly becoming a Subaru family. On our 2nd Outback(2012, 2015) and first XV Crosstrek (2015). Great cars for New England and overall.

I guess I will detail my situation here to get the most eyes on it:

* Bottomline: 2015 XV Crosstrek with 50K miles dead-in-the-water for over 3 months now. It's been at a dealer for over 2 months. I am ashamed and saddened by *my own* actions that lead me here: tapping into some wires in the overhead console (map-light area).

* Dealership situation: Was updated Friday (2 days ago, after 3 weeks of no communication I called for update). I am into this for at least $1600 at this point. Dealer service replaced Body Integrated Unit (BIU) with ZERO result. They now say they want to try the "key access module" (I think that's what they called it) for $1000. They also say since I grounded a wire to the iSight camera, that will be another about $3000. They say they need to just replace stuff until it works. What's interesting is that they don't know how much anything costs. They thought *about* $600 for the BIU, now they think *maybe* $1000 for key access module, and they don't know how much an iSight camera costs but once they did one and it cost $3000.

* Vehicle Status: Key fobs do NOTHING. As far as I know, the interior lights come on, the interior door lock buttons work, and there is a single light on the dashboard: a picture of a car with a lock on it. That's it. If you close the door while locked, it can only be opened with the physical key. Absolutely no computer access according to the service department.

* WHAT I DID: Attempting to connect a Rove Dash Cam, I tried using a popular adapter with the *unused* 3-prong rear-view mirror plug in the overhead console/map-light area. The car has a regular rear-view mirror with a manual switch for day/night driving but the plug for it is there. When I plugged my adapter in, I discovered there was no power at all. I couldn't find anything about a specific fuse for that connector so I used a multimeter to probe the wire-harnesses up there for 12 Volts and tapped my camera in.

I *thought* I had a decent ground in the unused rear-view power adapter but I did NOT (camera would not work). My multimeter just showed 12V so I tested by connecting my phone to the wires I had tapped into and I discovered it would cycle between charging and not-charging every second or so. I decided to move the ground wire to a bolt that was holding the iSight camera. The hot-wire was a random wire in one of the harnesses up there; one that had probes as 12V.

Rove Camera is WORKING: Tapping a hot-wire from a harness and grounding to a metal bolt connecting the iSight to the chassis, the camera worked. I took the car for a ride and everything was fine. Got home, retrieved video footage and celebrated my *genius* electrical work.

* Side-view mirrors and seat-heaters NOT working: Next morning, my daughter got in to drive (my Mother died 2 years ago and left this car to my daughter who now has her driving permit). My daughter tells me she can't adjust the side-view mirrors. I see in the manual it is the same fuse for mirrors and seat-heaters. She drives to school and I drive back home, about 20 miles total. I replace the blown fuse when I get home. Turn the car on, and ALL the idiot lights are on. Car starts and works, but no iSight, engine oil light on, transmission light on.....basically every light like a Xmas tree.

* ODBII Reader: I connect my ODBII reader expecting 20 error codes, but there is only one, showing a CVT transmission problem diagnosing a possible open circuit. I checked the fuse under the hood but it was fine so I used the ODB reader to clear the code and see if it came back or something else..... that was it, after clearing the code the car became a brick as described above. Key fobs don't work, must use the physical key to unlock the door, map-lights work, door button for lock/unlock work, one light on dash showing half-car with a padlock on it.

* Pleas for help: Any advice or suggestions? The dealer is telling me they need to replace various modules until it works. The last communication puts me at about $6000 to fix the car but they don't know if it will fix the car, I just need to keep paying for new parts until it works. I feel like I am being taken for a ride but cannot deny my own hand in this.

I am ready to pay what I owe, cut bait and start fishing for another car but not gonna lie I feel it is odd that the dealer is unable to repair and is absolutely clueless on what to do.

I know this is quite a long post. Hopefully the bullet points help keep things clear.

 

[Dick Foster]

I
You didn't by chance cut into the CAN BUS did you? It's up in that area for the eyesight cameras. Screw up the CAN BUS and all sorts of crap goes on the blink. The CAN BUS is a three wire serial buss that interconnects many system parts to the computers distributed throughout the car.

Dealer mechanics are part swapping idiots for the most part and know little to nothing about the cars or systems they work on. Sadly, not all but most fall into this catagory.
They shotgun swapping parts until they accidentally sometimes cure a problem through pure dumb luck alone selling you expensive parts along the way to max out their profit, while concealing their ignorance.
The same applies thing to many areas today including most of the trades, plumbers, electricians, you name it.

 

[bmart]

Dealer mechanics are part swapping idiots

This. You need a diagnostician. I'd not pay for anything they do so far.

 

[15XVBlue]

You didn't by chance cut into the CAN BUS did you? <snip>

I almost certainly did cut into that, judging by the Google image results! As I recall, there were 3 or 4 large plugs up there and I spliced into a wire that had a plug containing 16-20 wires.

I neglected to mention probably my BIGGEST mistake. I disconnected a spliced wire to instead just ground to the chassis (using a bolt that attached the eyesight assembly to the car) and there was definitely a spark as I moved the wire. A very tiny spark but I saw it.

Thank you for your response. It is more helpful than you might think! (see my next reply)

 

[15XVBlue]

This. You need a diagnostician. I'd not pay for anything they do so far.

Thank you for your response. Part of these past 2 months of nothingness has been waiting for the special Subaru tech to come in for a consult.

I understand your sentiment of not paying for "so far" but the truth is I agreed to "try" the BIU with the understanding that I would pay for it if it didn't work.

Ultimately, from my perspective now, I can't justify paying to throw parts AND time at this ($160/hour....they certainly know that number). I should just eat my mistake, pay for and retrieve the car and buy another one. Not made of money here but paying an additional $4,000 for a BIG maybe seems foolish when that money could go toward a car I know enough not to mess with by now.

My shame and embarrassment are huge here....paying more for possibly nothing will only make that worse. Kinda just want to put this behind me (it is eating away at me).

I genuinely appreciate your response. Thank you.

 

[bmart]

Just so we're clear, you did all of this with power to the battery? NOt any great way of knowing what was damaged, if that is how you did it.

 

[bmart]

Thank you for your response. Part of these past 2 months of nothingness has been waiting for the special Subaru tech to come in for a consult.

I understand your sentiment of not paying for "so far" but the truth is I agreed to "try" the BIU with the understanding that I would pay for it if it didn't work.

Ultimately, from my perspective now, I can't justify paying to throw parts AND time at this ($160/hour....they certainly know that number). I should just eat my mistake, pay for and retrieve the car and buy another one. Not made of money here but paying an additional $4,000 for a BIG maybe seems foolish when that money could go toward a car I know enough not to mess with by now.

My shame and embarrassment are huge here....paying more for possibly nothing will only make that worse. Kinda just want to put this behind me (it is eating away at me).

I genuinely appreciate your response. Thank you.

It is likely still a great parts car for someone, or a project. I don't think you're in for a new harness and to continue diagnosing. I'm not sure i'd be. Or buy another just like it and keep this one for parts.

Crap happens. Don't beat yourself up over it.

 

[15XVBlue]

Just so we're clear, you did all of this with power to the battery? NOt any great way of knowing what was damaged, if that is how you did it.

I did most of this powered off, but I did a *tiny* bit of this with the car on, right at the end, when I realized the first ground wasn’t working and moved that wire to the bolt on the eyesight camera. That’s when I saw a spark and realized the car was switched on.

I had read about the importance of keeping the car off and I almost made it, but in the end I missed it by this much!!!!

Thanks for the understanding and the “don’t beat yourself up”. You and Dick Foster have certainly helped me get this clear in my head.

With sincere gratitude,
Gary

 

[bmart]

Car key off or battery disconnected and all juice drained?

 

[15XVBlue]

Yikes….just car key off. I see I was way out of my league on this one!

 

[bmart]

Gotcha. Some things were off...but many still had power...especially when you put the key ok. lol

I'm surprised that more people on here don't get together.

 

[Bugzilla46310]

Similar issues with my now gone 2016 F350. That series had an issue where the parking brake pedal would rub through the canbus cable. I use the parking brake religiously and when the truck was about 6 years old the canbus failed while I was driving. Dash board lit up then half the gauges quit, truck kept running. By chance I was right in front of the dealer I bought the truck from. Pulled in and turned the truck off to see if it would reboot. Absolutely nothing. Went in to talk to the service manager who I have a good report with. Left it there. He determined it was the canbus cable and repaired it. But to get the truck running he had to download data from another truck to reprogram my truck. I’m not a computer techie so my terms may be different but hopefully you get the jist. May be why they can’t get your car running.

 

[15XVBlue]

Similar issues with my now gone 2016 F350. That series had an issue where the parking brake pedal would rub through the canbus cable. I use the parking brake religiously and when the truck was about 6 years old the canbus failed while I was driving. Dash board lit up then half the gauges quit, truck kept running. By chance I was right in front of the dealer I bought the truck from. Pulled in and turned the truck off to see if it would reboot. Absolutely nothing. Went in to talk to the service manager who I have a good report with. Left it there. He determined it was the canbus cable and repaired it. But to get the truck running he had to download data from another truck to reprogram my truck. I’m not a computer techie so my terms may be different but hopefully you get the jist. May be why they can’t get your car running.

Thank you for the replyBugzilla46310! Seems like most cars these days have sensitive computer equipment. I wonder if I would be the 1st person to complain about the difficulty of being a regular person trying a "simple" DIY job on a modern car?

No love lost for Subaru here. The dealer is working with me as best they can; they will send the car to auction and forgive my current service bill and give me a little money toward another car. It is the best I could ask for considering my situation.

To make a long story a little longer....I was installing cameras in all of our cars after someone backed into this 2015 Crosstrek while my daughter was driving (she has her learner's permit). The person who hit us was being super-sketchy and taking forever to admit responsibility. My father was nice enough to buy 4 Rove dash-cams for our cars which brings us here to this thread.

On the bright side:
* we now have dash-cams in all of our cars
* I *might* get a 6-speed manual transmission 2023 Crosstrek to replace the car I killed (my daughter can already drive stick on my 2008 Mazda5)
* I suppose since the lesson I learned here was on a car that was a gift to us, that is a bright-side as well.

 

[Raymond3006]

I
You didn't by chance cut into the CAN BUS did you? It's up in that area for the eyesight cameras. Screw up the CAN BUS and all sorts of crap goes on the blink. The CAN BUS is a three wire serial buss that interconnects many system parts to the computers distributed throughout the car.

Dealer mechanics are part swapping idiots for the most part and know little to nothing about the cars or systems they work on. Sadly, not all but most fall into this catagory.
They shotgun swapping parts until they accidentally sometimes cure a problem through pure dumb luck alone selling you expensive parts along the way to max out their profit, while concealing their ignorance.
The same applies thing to many areas today including most of the trades, plumbers, electricians, you name it.

Be CAREFUL !
Some "moderators" on these Forums closely resemble the Lead Character at GitMo Movie , barking at Tom Cruise ; " ... TRUTH , YOU CAN NOT HANDLE THE TRUTH ..." !
But , I totally agree with you .... but at the 1000%-Level !!! After I bought my 2016 Subaru , and the Battery was totally DEAD the next morning , and about 25-Times during the fol;lowing couple WEEKS , .... they told me that (essentially - You are dumb enough to leave stuff on .... !) it was my driving habits .... !
I was forced to solve the bad charging system design problem all on my own ..... OR LET THEM TO START RE-MANUFACTURING THE VEHICLE , just like you describded above ... !
-----
If it is the CAN-BUS , the dealer mechanic should be able to see that , IF they ever actually hooked-up their $100,000 Computerized MONITOR Sys. ... as it should tell them if System-to-System Communication was VALID , or Faulty .. !

I think that I'd go back to checking the ENTIRE GROUNDING SYSTEM , as either an Open-Ground , or possibly damaged inter-connecting wiring .... : but that dealer's approach to replacing Modules, after Module, could be just destroying new modules as fast as they can plug them in ..... ! All the trouble-shooting algorithms they use pretty much assUme that there is a Single-Point-Failure .... which is OK for simple problems, but NOT for Multiple-Failures .... !
GOOD LUCK , as the best info I can provide would be to have "them" to provide their proof of MONITOR Communication , and that all Modules "respond" to communication protocols ..... !
A Lack of communication may require a whole new Wiring Harness for the CAN-BUS .... and verification that the Vehicle Grounding System is still fully functional , from Rear-To-Front , and From-Right-To-Left , starting at the ECM Grounds on the Right Side , the Engine/Trans Grounds at the Mid-Line of the FireWall , and the Instrument Cluster Grounds inside the Vehicle .....

 

[bmart]

* I *might* get a 6-speed manual transmission 2023 Crosstrek to replace the car I killed (my daughter can already drive stick on my 2008 Mazda5)

The manuals in those absolutely suck. You have to go older if you want to enjoy a manual mid-grade Subaru.

 

[15XVBlue]

Be CAREFUL !
Some "moderators" on these Forums closely resemble the Lead Character at GitMo Movie , barking at Tom Cruise ; " ... TRUTH , YOU CAN NOT HANDLE THE TRUTH ..." !
But , I totally agree with you .... but at the 1000%-Level !!! After I bought my 2016 Subaru , and the Battery was totally DEAD the next morning , and about 25-Times during the fol;lowing couple WEEKS , .... they told me that (essentially - You are dumb enough to leave stuff on .... !) it was my driving habits .... !
I was forced to solve the bad charging system design problem all on my own ..... OR LET THEM TO START RE-MANUFACTURING THE VEHICLE , just like you describded above ... !
-----
If it is the CAN-BUS , the dealer mechanic should be able to see that , IF they ever actually hooked-up their $100,000 Computerized MONITOR Sys. ... as it should tell them if System-to-System Communication was VALID , or Faulty .. !

I think that I'd go back to checking the ENTIRE GROUNDING SYSTEM , as either an Open-Ground , or possibly damaged inter-connecting wiring .... : but that dealer's approach to replacing Modules, after Module, could be just destroying new modules as fast as they can plug them in ..... ! All the trouble-shooting algorithms they use pretty much assUme that there is a Single-Point-Failure .... which is OK for simple problems, but NOT for Multiple-Failures .... !
GOOD LUCK , as the best info I can provide would be to have "them" to provide their proof of MONITOR Communication , and that all Modules "respond" to communication protocols ..... !
A Lack of communication may require a whole new Wiring Harness for the CAN-BUS .... and verification that the Vehicle Grounding System is still fully functional , from Rear-To-Front , and From-Right-To-Left , starting at the ECM Grounds on the Right Side , the Engine/Trans Grounds at the Mid-Line of the FireWall , and the Instrument Cluster Grounds inside the Vehicle .....

Thank you for your input Raymond3006. Indeed, there is ZERO communication with diagnostic equipment. My first thought after the BIU replacement didn't change anything was that the BIU may have suffered the same fate as the original if an underlying cause had not been identified. As your last paragraph alludes to, a ton of time and patience might be needed to get to the bottom of this.

So I have washed my hands of the issue now and honestly feel a little relieved to be moving on from it.

Also I want to say, your response and others like it certainly demonstrate the experience and understanding of the members of this forum. I am stoked to have found this community,.

 

[15XVBlue]

The manuals in those absolutely suck. You have to go older if you want to enjoy a manual mid-grade Subaru.

Thank you for this bmart. I was just telling my daughter yesterday that a manual can elevate the driving experience and make it even more enjoyable if one already enjoys driving, but a clunky shifter and/or clutch can have the opposite effect.

I still might take it for a test drive. Will let you all know (with a new thread of course) how the search for our next Subaru goes.

 

[15XVBlue]

OK, maybe not a new thread…..I’ll bring this one full circle. We just got a 2022 Impreza sedan, 53K miles, white, automatic, base model. The dealership forgave my $1500 service bill and gave me $3500 for the trade-in.

This was easily my most expensive mistake in my 55+ years, if you don’t count my first wife….lol emoji….brief pause….sad emoji….

This group has been a great help to me! Thank you. I look forward to being more active here.

 

[Raymond3006]

Moving-On ; Going Forward : You sound like a Hands-On Person, which is where We-All started , so I'll make one relatively "short" final comment about "Repairing Modern Cars , and Their Wiring , BOTH "Hot-12" and "The Ground System"
When you first started working on Automotive Elec Systems, and Re-Connecting and Adding New "Stuff" you were probably handling wires that were a Lot Like what Ma-Bell used back in the 1950's for Wiring Phone Services in Buildings and Residences ! GONE ARE THOSE DAYS of decently SIZED , WORKABLE Wiring Revisions .... ! Todays Auto Wiring Mazes look a lot like what is also used on Modern Desk-Top PC , and LapTops ..... BUT THIS ANGEL-HAIR WIRING IS SCATTERED FROM BUMPER-TO-BUMPER , and everywhere in between ... ! It is absolutely "dangerous" (to the Vehicle) for Owner-Operators to be doing a lot of things that we used to routinely do 20-30-years ago in modifying OR REPAIRING Vehicles ; but even more so At The Dealeership , considering some of the People why consider themselves to be Auto-Mechanics !!!

What astounds me is that there is probably a lot more damaged wiring in our (used) vehicles that we know nothing about, until we start doing the NEXT JOB, and we AWAKEN the damage, and think that WE-JUST-SCREWED-UP .... when things go Side-Ways , or Plummet straight to .... !!!!!

Too much current is one of these itsy-bitsy-wires , all closely wrapped into pencil-thin multi-wire-harnesses , and the Whole-Assembly can have its Insulation melted into a consolidated Snake , but sstill "working" , .. then along comes an adventuresome , self-confident , and experienced newbee .... and POOF : one (or more likely several ) totally unrelated Systems all of a sudden are having Cardiac Symptoms !!!

The really SAD reality is , that the Same thing can happen to the Ground System !!!!!

And every manufacture , that used to Seal-Mig-Weld Unibody Sheet Metal Assemblies , now only Spot-Weld every couple FEET, with the Sheet-Metal Parts clamped on moving manufacturing Jigs ; then they (ALL !) apply (the Equivalent) HOT JB-WELD to all the inter-spacing "seams" , and by the time the assembly gets a few Yards farther down the line , this entire GLUED TOGETHER ASSEMBLY is used (cold) and ready to put the Skin on the Bones of a Skeleton that arrives from another Assembly Area ... ! To THIS "conducting" metal is added ELECTRONICS and WIRING HARNESES , ........... !!!

Then even a supposedly "trained" Mechanic tries to find a small hick-up !

Or a second or third owner tries to Bring Back To Life an unfortunate Victim of Reality-Land ... !

These Glued-Together Lego-Land Automobiles are suckering Good Owners , used to working on Quality, Properly Welded , Properly Framed , and Properly Wired Vehicles , into thinking that they can do the Act Of Creation, on a concoction that was headed into the Used Parts Bins from the Day is left the Factory ..... !

This is not going to end well for the Automobile Industry , and it may reach a crescendo in just a few more years : and for anyone who does not believ me ... Just Open Your Hood (if they still allow you to de even that !) and look at all the (combustible -!) plastic that only exists to keep the User of the Vehicle to NEVER SEE , let alone TOUCH any part of that SACRED COW !
FACT : most knowledgeable car operators could NOT jump start any recent model Vehicle if they were only several driving minutes away from a Bomb Shelter, and the SIRENS were blaring about an INCOMING THERMONUCLEAR MISSAL ! The Battery Negative GROUND is buried under several layers of Obstructing Plastic , none of which is Conductive for a Ground Path , and there is not a Metal Object of any kind Visible, except for the Metal Latch Assembly they touched while lifting up the Hood by Hand .... ! And so ends the Great Modern Automobile ! It works while it works , and it Dies an Eternal Death when it Dies for any "reason" !!!! Even the Dealers need to Re-Manufacture it in Whole Sections, b/c it was never designed , or built to be EASILY REPAIRED --- but it is supposed to Double or Quadruple the Dealers Profits AFTER Sale , by the very process of Re-Manufacturing , ... instead of REPAIRING what is actually mal-functioning ....

 

[slipkid]

Thank you for this bmart. I was just telling my daughter yesterday that a manual can elevate the driving experience and make it even more enjoyable if one already enjoys driving, but a clunky shifter and/or clutch can have the opposite effect.

I still might take it for a test drive. Will let you all know (with a new thread of course) how the search for our next Subaru goes.

I have a 2023 Crosstrek manual and have NO IDEA why @bmart would say that the manual trans in these cars "absolutely suck".

I've owned something like 9 or 10 manual trans cars in my lifetime and can most certainly say that the one in my 2023 Crosstrek does NOT suck on any level. It is silky smooth shifting and very ez to use the clutch.

I recommend if you find a 2023 MT Crosstrek in decent condition that you take one for a test drive and judge for yourself.