J
JeffD
Hi everyone -- I haven't read this group in awhile, but it was a big
help in my deciding to purchase my used '96 Legacy, in March of 2002.
The car was basically "mint" with only 46,000 miles when I bought it
from a local Subaru dealer. The previous (original) owner also bought
the car there and the dealer had a complete record of its service
history, which showed the car was exceptionally well-maintained.
Anyway, so far I couldn't be happier with the car. I have nothing but
good things to say about it and it has run like a watch since I bought
it -- up until a few weeks ago when the engine began "missing" while
idling at stop lights, etc. As soon I accelerated, the roughness would
disappear, but then a few days later the car began to miss & sputter
sometimes during acceleration as well -- until the "Check Engine" light
finally came on. It stayed lit for 2 days, during which time the car
ran completely normally (no missing at all), then the CE light was off
the next time I started the car. It remained off for 3 or 4 days (car
still running normally), then came back on right after the engine began
missing again while idling at a stoplight. Once again, as I powered
away from the stop, the engine smoothed out. Got to the next stoplight
(about 1000' down the road) and car beagn to idle EXTREMELY roughly, as
though it wanted to stall -- and then got worse when I accelerated, at
which time the CE light then began *flashing*. I pulled in to my work-
place (only another few feet down the road), turned off the car and went
into work. Lunchtime, 4 hours later, the car started right up, idled
smoothly, though the CE light was still on (but not flashing anymore).
Left work that night, engine alternated between smooth/normal and
missing during the short ride home. I then brought it to my regular
mechanic who put it on his computer, which showed a misfire on cylinder
#4. He suggested & did a complete tune-up (new wires, etc.). The car
then ran fine for almost 2 weeks until the symptoms reappeared (but
NO "Check Engine" light). Two days later brought it back to my mechanic
(the CE light finally came back on on my way there). Once again, the
computer reported a misfire on #4, so this time he replaced the coil
pack
(at the suggestion of a Subaru dealer he called). Later that day, he
called to say the car was ready and that he had test driven it (even
getting stuck in traffic, with plenty of idling time), and that the car
seemed to be running fine. No sooner then I go and pick it up, it
starts
doing the same thing at idle, before I can even get out of his lot, and
also on acceleration. So, I turned right around and went back. He then
apologized and told me just to take it to Subaru (though he had also
warned me earlier that if the coil pack didn't fix it, I was going to
have to let a Subaru tech diagnose it). So... I immediately drove the
car to Bill Kolb Subaru, a few miles away (not the dealer I bought it
from, which is more than twice as far). I explained the problem to the
2nd "chief" service tech there and also told him what had already been
done to the car. He was EXTREMEY accomodating -- sympathetic, even --
and they took the car right in, even though it was getting to closing
time for the service department. After about 45 minutes he asked me if
I could leave the car overnight so they could continue to diagnose it
the next day (last Thursday).
So, Thursday, just before leaving work, he finally called to tell me
that they went through EVERY possibility for a misfire on #4 -- and that
it turns out, unfortunately, to be a problem with the VALVE GUIDES on
that cylinder (becoming "unseated", I think, or something -- I still
don't really understand it), and that the entire thing has to be
replaced, cost: $1,539.00 (I thought I was going to literally
pass-out;
my wife said I looked as white as a sheet when she picked me up after
work). He said it was very rare for this to happen and that he's only
seen it two other times in the years he's been with Subaru -- and then
only on engines with more than 100,000 miles (my car has only 63K on
it).
When I asked "why" it happens/what could've caused it, he said there
really isn't an answer for that; that it can just "happen" sometimes.
Just out of curiosity, I also wanted to know why the engine wouldn't
be misfiring/running rough ALL the time (rather than "just" MOST of
the time) and why the tune-up I had done seemed to "cure" the problem
for 2 weeks, but they didn't really have an answer for this either.
The next night (last Friday), I went on the internet to see if I could
find any reports of bad valve guides on Subaru 2.2 engines. I was
just about to give up when I found a site called automotiveforums.com.
Within less than 20 minutes of searching, I found at least * 5 * other
Subaru owners who've had the same experience with the same symptoms
('95-'97 model years, if I remember correctly), and the same difficulty
with their regular mechanics attempting to diagnose/fix it. All of
these other folks, however, seem to have had WELL over 100K on their
cars when this happened. Again, I only have 63K on my '96 Legacy.
(...and to think of all the damn research I did befoe I bought this
car -- I thought my eyes were going to blow out of my head!)
Please forgive me for the length of this post (and for my technical
ignorance too), but I really wanted to know if any Subaru owners here
have experienced this same problem with valve guides or have *heard*
of others who have -- especially with only 63,000 miles. Do you know
WHAT causes it/HOW it occurs? Could it have been a problem with the
original manufacturing of the engine (the Subaru tech says not)? Also,
why wouldn't the engine run badly >100%< of the time, rather than, say,
75% of the time as it did (and why did that tune-up seem to cure it for
a couple of weeks)? ANY answers, advice, opinions are greatly
appreciated. Thanks for listening! (Guess it'll be a Nisson or
something next time, but I really love(d) this car)
Best,
Jeff D.
help in my deciding to purchase my used '96 Legacy, in March of 2002.
The car was basically "mint" with only 46,000 miles when I bought it
from a local Subaru dealer. The previous (original) owner also bought
the car there and the dealer had a complete record of its service
history, which showed the car was exceptionally well-maintained.
Anyway, so far I couldn't be happier with the car. I have nothing but
good things to say about it and it has run like a watch since I bought
it -- up until a few weeks ago when the engine began "missing" while
idling at stop lights, etc. As soon I accelerated, the roughness would
disappear, but then a few days later the car began to miss & sputter
sometimes during acceleration as well -- until the "Check Engine" light
finally came on. It stayed lit for 2 days, during which time the car
ran completely normally (no missing at all), then the CE light was off
the next time I started the car. It remained off for 3 or 4 days (car
still running normally), then came back on right after the engine began
missing again while idling at a stoplight. Once again, as I powered
away from the stop, the engine smoothed out. Got to the next stoplight
(about 1000' down the road) and car beagn to idle EXTREMELY roughly, as
though it wanted to stall -- and then got worse when I accelerated, at
which time the CE light then began *flashing*. I pulled in to my work-
place (only another few feet down the road), turned off the car and went
into work. Lunchtime, 4 hours later, the car started right up, idled
smoothly, though the CE light was still on (but not flashing anymore).
Left work that night, engine alternated between smooth/normal and
missing during the short ride home. I then brought it to my regular
mechanic who put it on his computer, which showed a misfire on cylinder
#4. He suggested & did a complete tune-up (new wires, etc.). The car
then ran fine for almost 2 weeks until the symptoms reappeared (but
NO "Check Engine" light). Two days later brought it back to my mechanic
(the CE light finally came back on on my way there). Once again, the
computer reported a misfire on #4, so this time he replaced the coil
pack
(at the suggestion of a Subaru dealer he called). Later that day, he
called to say the car was ready and that he had test driven it (even
getting stuck in traffic, with plenty of idling time), and that the car
seemed to be running fine. No sooner then I go and pick it up, it
starts
doing the same thing at idle, before I can even get out of his lot, and
also on acceleration. So, I turned right around and went back. He then
apologized and told me just to take it to Subaru (though he had also
warned me earlier that if the coil pack didn't fix it, I was going to
have to let a Subaru tech diagnose it). So... I immediately drove the
car to Bill Kolb Subaru, a few miles away (not the dealer I bought it
from, which is more than twice as far). I explained the problem to the
2nd "chief" service tech there and also told him what had already been
done to the car. He was EXTREMEY accomodating -- sympathetic, even --
and they took the car right in, even though it was getting to closing
time for the service department. After about 45 minutes he asked me if
I could leave the car overnight so they could continue to diagnose it
the next day (last Thursday).
So, Thursday, just before leaving work, he finally called to tell me
that they went through EVERY possibility for a misfire on #4 -- and that
it turns out, unfortunately, to be a problem with the VALVE GUIDES on
that cylinder (becoming "unseated", I think, or something -- I still
don't really understand it), and that the entire thing has to be
replaced, cost: $1,539.00 (I thought I was going to literally
pass-out;
my wife said I looked as white as a sheet when she picked me up after
work). He said it was very rare for this to happen and that he's only
seen it two other times in the years he's been with Subaru -- and then
only on engines with more than 100,000 miles (my car has only 63K on
it).
When I asked "why" it happens/what could've caused it, he said there
really isn't an answer for that; that it can just "happen" sometimes.
Just out of curiosity, I also wanted to know why the engine wouldn't
be misfiring/running rough ALL the time (rather than "just" MOST of
the time) and why the tune-up I had done seemed to "cure" the problem
for 2 weeks, but they didn't really have an answer for this either.
The next night (last Friday), I went on the internet to see if I could
find any reports of bad valve guides on Subaru 2.2 engines. I was
just about to give up when I found a site called automotiveforums.com.
Within less than 20 minutes of searching, I found at least * 5 * other
Subaru owners who've had the same experience with the same symptoms
('95-'97 model years, if I remember correctly), and the same difficulty
with their regular mechanics attempting to diagnose/fix it. All of
these other folks, however, seem to have had WELL over 100K on their
cars when this happened. Again, I only have 63K on my '96 Legacy.
(...and to think of all the damn research I did befoe I bought this
car -- I thought my eyes were going to blow out of my head!)
Please forgive me for the length of this post (and for my technical
ignorance too), but I really wanted to know if any Subaru owners here
have experienced this same problem with valve guides or have *heard*
of others who have -- especially with only 63,000 miles. Do you know
WHAT causes it/HOW it occurs? Could it have been a problem with the
original manufacturing of the engine (the Subaru tech says not)? Also,
why wouldn't the engine run badly >100%< of the time, rather than, say,
75% of the time as it did (and why did that tune-up seem to cure it for
a couple of weeks)? ANY answers, advice, opinions are greatly
appreciated. Thanks for listening! (Guess it'll be a Nisson or
something next time, but I really love(d) this car)
Best,
Jeff D.