Sad 98 OBW Owner

[rabidsqrl]

Well, I've been a proud Subaru owner since 1985 until recently. I had
my 1985 turbo for 10 years, put 230,000 miles on it, sold it for
$1700, and that person put another 100,000 miles on it. Now I own a 98
OBW with 140,000 miles on it and the dealer said that they can't find
out why it is running too rich and the idle surges and the mileage has
gone into the toilet. They're telling me it could be a rod or crank
bearing. The dealer showed me that the thrust on the crank is way out
by putting a small pry bar behind the crank pulley and watching the
pulley move out about a 1/4". I've replaced plugs, wires, coilpack,
IAC, BPT, and had to replace head gaskets due to a thermostat failure.
So, anyone out there had any dealings with ccrengines.com or any used
engines for that year? I still love the car and it's paid for. I'd
love to get it working again.

Thanks

 

[Rick Courtright]

So, anyone out there had any dealings with ccrengines.com or any used
engines for that year? I still love the car and it's paid for. I'd

Hi,

Only dealing (so far) with CCR is to send 'em an e-mail for a quote for
an engine for my '90--at 343k miles it's getting tired! They were quick
and thorough in their reply. I hope that speaks well for their work.

Back to your original problem--rod and/or crank bearing problems MAY be
evident, but the symptoms sound more like ignition/fuel systems. Bearing
problems typically manifest themselves as knocking noises and loss of
oil pressure before anything else. OTOH, bad O2 sensors are the first
thing that comes to my mind with the running rich problem. My experience
is that Subaru's designed a "fail safe" system into the fuel delivery:
if something goes bad, it "fails" to "full rich." Not sure if that
applies to later years, but it's something to have someone else (not the
dealer who can't find anything!) take a look at before going the new
engine route, cuz bad parts on a new engine will continue to do the same
thing. Someone should be able to read the failure codes stored in your
computer and see what's going on.

Best of luck,

Rick

 

[Edward Hayes]

I agree with Rick as to a possible ignition problem. Wow a 1/4 (0.250) inch
end play that usually is 0.002 inch. I question the measurement or the
measurer. Get another dealer or Subaru knowledgeable person to get a second
opinion. eddie

 

[Carl 1 Lucky Texan]

symptoms similar to bad temp sensor - ECU thinks car is cold and chokes it.
You might try asking for advice on the forum at www.usmb.net - good folks.

Carl
1 Lucky texan

 

[Scott & Robin]

I agree...sounds like O2 sensor or other electronics problem....get a
nother mechanic...preferably not a dealer.

Best wishes.

 

[rick]

OK....2 vote for possible bad o2 sensors and 1 vote for possible bad temp
sensor. My question is, can these sensors be bad and not generate an error
code? My mechanic insists that if (o2) sensors are bad, the computer will
say so.

Rick (a different one)
..
..
..
..

 

[TG]

have a good top end flush done to clean the injectors. O2 sensor would throw
a code. TG

 

[TG]

And your mechanic is correct, however a dirty injector will not show up nor
will an inaccurate coolant temp sensor....until they dump enough fuel to
ruin the O2 sensor and/or cat shit converter. TG

OK....2 vote for possible bad o2 sensors and 1 vote for possible bad temp
sensor. My question is, can these sensors be bad and not generate an error
code? My mechanic insists that if (o2) sensors are bad, the computer will
say so.

Rick (a different one)
.
.
.
.

 

[rabidsqrl]

Forgot to mention, also replaced both O2 sensors and front cat
converter (dealer recommendation) didn't fix the problem. No DTC codes
and no check engine light. I have an Auterra OBD II scanner that can
read codes and other vitals, it shows nothing. Dealer seems to live by
codes. If there aren't any they can't diagnose the problem. Can you
see my frustration. I feel I know more about this engine than they
do.

Thanks for the info and suggestions.

mike

 

[Jim Stewart]

I agree with Rick as to a possible ignition problem. Wow a 1/4 (0.250) inch
end play that usually is 0.002 inch. I question the measurement or the
measurer. Get another dealer or Subaru knowledgeable person to get a second
opinion. eddie

Agreed. If there really is 1/4" of play, there should
be about 2 lbs. of metal shavings in the oil when
you change it.

 

[Guest]

OK....2 vote for possible bad o2 sensors and 1 vote for possible bad temp
sensor. My question is, can these sensors be bad and not generate an error
code? My mechanic insists that if (o2) sensors are bad, the computer will
say so.

Yes! They can be bad and not generate errors.

I did some research on O2 sensors just recently. Computer will give you
error code for O2 sensor if it's completely dead (shortage, broken cap, no
connection, etc.). But it's very rare cases. In most cases sensor just
clogging little by little. And readings getting worse and worse. And
computer just adjusts for "new readings" as long as it gets at least
something. When oxygen sensors get old, they just do not react on changes as
quick as they should and you are getting lean or reach mix for longer time
what kills sensor even more.

Another aspect - time. Most mechanical books recommend to change O2 sensors
every 50-60K for pre-'96 cars and every 100K for cars starting from '97.
Just replace it.

Other things "may" be replaced even without intensive checking - spark plugs
(for Outback 2.5L should be changed every 100K), spark plug wires, PCV valve
(recommended to change every 30K). MAF Sensor (if you have one) may be
cleaned using "Electric Contacts Cleaner". It gets dirty even with best
filters. Injectors "may" be cleaned every 3-6K but it depends on what gas do
you use.

Good luck.

 

[Rick Courtright]

code? My mechanic insists that if (o2) sensors are bad, the computer will

Hi,

I'm not sure when the computers started showing codes for O2
sensors--older ones didn't. On my '90, I can completely disconnect the
O2 sensor and not even get a code. As others have said, even on the
newer cars, there may not be a code until any component involved
actually fails completely. '98 was only a couple of years into OBCD II
or whatever they call the new system, so it might not have been as
sensitive as the newest units.

Rick (the other one)

 

[Rick Courtright]

Forgot to mention, also replaced both O2 sensors and front cat
converter (dealer recommendation) didn't fix the problem. No DTC codes

Hi,

Sounds like it may be time to rule out another problem--a "sick" engine.
I'm a little amazed at the 1/4" crank movement thing: your engine should
have self-destructed long ago if that's the case. As another poster put
it, play there is in the order of a few thousandths. Then things start
running into each other, shredding lots of metal just before they come
to a screeching halt.

But... can you find a good mechanic to do a real compression test (with
a gauge, not extrapolated from computer output) and a cylinder leak down
test? If you have a weak cyclinder (bad rings, leaky valves) that can
keep the computer guessing and duplicate some of the problems you
mentioned. Also inspect all vacuum lines and replace any that are
brittle--tiny vacuum leaks will also cause some problems. Along with the
fuel economy problems, have you noticed any change in oil consumption?
As in higher? That can be a symptom or a cause: symptom of bad
cylinder(s) or cause of O2 sensor or cat failure from "running rich" as
you turn your engine in essence into a two-stroker.

Many of the mechanics today forget the engine's still just a pump under
all the glitz and sensors, and if the internals aren't good, there's
nothing the electronics cad do to "undo" the damage.

I understand your frustration. Been there too many times.

Rick

 

[Edward Hayes]

I have read on this news group that if only the preheat heater in the O2
sensor is defective it will NOT give an error code. Maybe the person who
discovered that after many dealer trips will respond. eddie

 

[John Rutledge]

It could be the temp sensor has failed. I had this problem on my 91 Golf
and replacing the temp sensor fixed the problem. Also, a friend had a
Saturn that couldn't pass deq - same problem, same fix except she didn't
have the surge symptom.

 

[rabidsqrl]

I think I'll try the engine coolant temp sensor. Only $20.00 bucks.
Whats to loose. Is there a shade tree mechanic way to clean the
injectors? They are very easy to take out. Should I also check the
fuel pressure? Could the elec. fuel pump not be pumping enough or the
pressure regulator not regulating?

Thanks again,

mike