Nitrogen

What is nitrogen supposed to do that air doesnt? I know that they use
nitrogen in some electrical conduits to combat moisture, but even then I am
not really sure why nitrogen must be used instead of dry air.

Thanks,
--Dan
 
Nitrogen has been used in Formula one cars for some years
and other high speed tyre applications such as aircraft tyres
according to the sales pitch.
The benefits are very low pressure loss (larger molecules)
cooler running giving up to 25% lower wear, 5% better fuel
consumption and quieter running.
At £1.75 ($3) per tyre inflation cost (they say at least 3 months
between top-ups) it's worth a try.
It's only just hit the market over here so little user feed-back so far.
We'll see.

Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.mightymite.com
www.svetlana-tubes.com
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
 
Comment: You must use "DRY NITROGEN" or the benefits are lost due to water
dissociating at higher temperature. A bottle of dry Nitrogen from a
reputable supplier will say "dry nitrogen". This is not the stuff sold to
fill your kids balloons. eddie
 
Nitrogen has been used in Formula one cars for some years
and other high speed tyre applications such as aircraft tyres
according to the sales pitch.
The benefits are very low pressure loss (larger molecules)
cooler running giving up to 25% lower wear, 5% better fuel
consumption and quieter running.
At £1.75 ($3) per tyre inflation cost (they say at least 3 months
between top-ups) it's worth a try.
It's only just hit the market over here so little user feed-back so far.
We'll see.

Sounds like you were sold a bill of goods.

The only benefits for the average vehicle is the
resistance to corrosion of wheels and deterioration
of the tire construction through removing any available
Oxygen. Apparently this corrosion can also contribute to
the debris which causes the valves to jam partly open
and leak.

Trucks use Nitrogen to increase carcass life by slowing
the effects of deterioration. Car tires rarely last
long enough for this to be a problem. For the Model A
which gets driven a couple of hundred kms a year, maybe
this is a good thing.

Nitrogen is used in racing because it eliminates water
from the gas in the tire and creates more stable and predictable
pressures, which is vital for peak performance.
Warm humid climates can contain as much as 6% water vapour.

I have seen no evidence that tires run cooler or quieter.

Air is mostly Nitrogen, so clearly the size of the molecules
is the same.

Air by volume
Nitrogen N2 78.084 %
Oxygen O2 20.9476 %
Argon Ar 0.934 %
Carbon Dioxide CO2 0.0314 %
Neon Ne 0.001818 %
Methane CH4 0.0002 %
Helium He 0.000524 %
Krypton Kr 0.000114 %
Hydrogen H2 0.00005 %
Xenon Xe 0.0000087 %
 
Edward said:
Comment: You must use "DRY NITROGEN" or the benefits are lost due to water
dissociating at higher temperature. A bottle of dry Nitrogen from a
reputable supplier will say "dry nitrogen". This is not the stuff sold to
fill your kids balloons. eddie

Where I live, all cylinders of nitrogen are dry. You
can't get anything else. Your milage may vary.
 
I am well aware of the composition of air....but
water vapour seems to be missing from your analysis
which is rather relevant in this context.
I wasn't 'sold' anything...I bought it to try with
a reasonable grasp of the chemistry and physics
involved....my profession in an earlier life.
There is plenty of discussion on the web
on the subject and pro v con is about equal
although most of the con comment comes from
armchair experts it would appear who have not tried it.
For £7 it's worth a try...and a hell of lot cheaper
than most snake oil products aimed at motorists.
I'm open-minded....you apparently are not.
As a footnote...the UK has very strict legislation
regarding claims made for products called the
Trades Description Act.
If this is bullshit then the company selling the system
to tyre suppliers will have a short life.
--
Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.mightymite.com
www.svetlana-tubes.com
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
 
Edward Hayes said:
Comment: You must use "DRY NITROGEN" or the benefits are lost due to water
dissociating at higher temperature. A bottle of dry Nitrogen from a
reputable supplier will say "dry nitrogen". This is not the stuff sold to
fill your kids balloons. eddie


Well, of course it's not. People use Helium to fill their kids balloons,
not nitrogen.
 
I really goofed with the balloon comment someone. Glad you caught it. Dry as
in dry nitrogen. eddie
 
I asked for qualified ie hands on opinion.
I get a lecture as if I'm some round-eyed hillbilly
from an expert armed with an opinion and nothing else.
Thanks.
I'm not even convinced myself but at least I can
give a user report after a reasonable length of time.
You do silly sums and talk down to people.
This might be a good and cheap tweak and thus of interest
to the NG...or not so no-one else wastes their money.




--
Clive Norris
Selectron (UK) Ltd
www.espguitars.co.uk
www.espshop.co.uk
www.mightymite.com
www.svetlana-tubes.com
www.emgpickups.co.uk
www.tube-shop.com
www.whirlwindusa.com
www.deanmarkley.com
 
I asked for qualified ie hands on opinion.
I get a lecture as if I'm some round-eyed hillbilly
from an expert armed with an opinion and nothing else.
Thanks.

Facts mostly, and some opinion. This is usenet
get used to it.

You're awfully defensive. Sounds like
cognitive dissonance of post-purchase justification.
I'm not even convinced myself but at least I can
give a user report after a reasonable length of time.
You do silly sums and talk down to people.

Nothing silly about numbers. No insults either, unlike
yourself.
This might be a good and cheap tweak and thus of interest
to the NG...or not so no-one else wastes their money.

So you think maybe you wasted your money and you're
upset with a rational discussion of fact exploring
the perceived benefits?
 
I'll try helium on my Subie's tires (including the spare)... I guess the
resulting effective reduction in weight will give me an added boost in
power... ;-)
 
I'll try helium on my Subie's tires (including the spare)... I guess the
resulting effective reduction in weight will give me an added boost in
power... ;-)

I believe Helium is the second smallest atom (or molecule when they
cruise around in pairs) next to Hydrogen. You might experience a lot
more seepage.
 
Something interesting relating to that is saturation divers who spend days
deep in the ocean and breath helium and oxygen. Their watches (rolex
watches often I understand) have helium purge valves so that when they
surface, the helium pressure that has built up in their watches doesnt blow
the watch. The helium is THAT small, it gets inside sealed Rolex diving
watches.

--Dan
 
Dave Null Sr. said:
Facts mostly, and some opinion. This is usenet
get used to it.

You're awfully defensive. Sounds like
cognitive dissonance of post-purchase justification.


Nothing silly about numbers. No insults either, unlike
yourself.


So you think maybe you wasted your money and you're
upset with a rational discussion of fact exploring
the perceived benefits?

I have used nitrogen now for about 4,000kms. I don't know about giving
better tire life as it is too early to say, but I do know that the
nitrogen in the tire does not heat up as much as the standard
compressed air. WHen I had normal compressed air in my tires and did a
highway trip at say 120km/h (75mph) the tires would go from cold 32psi
up to 36-37psi hot. Now that I've put nitrogen in the tires I go from
cold 32psi to 34psi hot.

From what I've heard on the subject it is heat which causes the most
problem for wear in tires. Ride comfort seems to be better as the tire
pressure when hot is not as great. There also does seem to be truth in
the fact that the tire does not need to be topped up all the time. In
the 4,000kms of driving so far the pressure has stayed virtually the
same (pressures vary due to ambient temperatures).
 
One problem I can see: car manufacturers take the heating effect into
consideration when setting tire pressures, that's why they tell you to check
the tires cold. There might be a need to use a higher cold pressure setting
with nitrogen because of the fact they will not heat up as much.

Also, as for the gov't agencies looking out for frauds, don't hold your
breath!! Practical Classics, a British magazine, has been following the
story of a manufacturer of a fuel improving add on for some time, and it
took the gov't a long time to put them out of the market (item was a small
fitting that was inserted in the fuel line that would "catalyse" the fuel,
giving much better mileage). Of course, no one but the manufacturer could
get any fuel mileage improvement with it!!!

Ed B.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
13,999
Messages
67,678
Members
7,489
Latest member
ddm

Latest Threads

Back
Top