I HATE THE POWER WINDOWS

[Daniel J. Stern]

YOU NEED THE KEY TO OPERATE THEM

Your beef isn't with Subaru, it's with the Federal Government.
Specifically, with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration,
which sets and administers the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. One
of the FMVSS requirements is that power windows not operate with the key
in the "off" position *OR* with the key in the "off" position once the
driver's door has been opened. Most manufacturers choose simply to require
that the key be "on" for the power windows to work.

This requirement does not exist in Europe or Japan.

DS

 

[steve ball]

Couldn't be much different than the car lights...

Originally (1960s) power windows were always on. Apparently some kids
were killed playing around in parked cars, and they started turning off
the windows with the ignition. I think they also put in load sensors,
like garage doors.

VW cut the headlights with the ignition. The marker lights would still
drain the battery, but not for many hours.

I had a VW Passat that would close the windows if you held the door key
in the locked position for a few seconds. It was nice if you noticed a
window down as you were leaving the car.

My wife's Prius lets you operate the windows until a door is opened,
very nice.

 

[T]

Marketing wrote:


Anybody else notice this guy is calling himself Marketing?


TBerk

 

[Al]

Your beef isn't with Subaru, it's with the Federal Government.
Specifically, with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration,
which sets and administers the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. One
of the FMVSS requirements is that power windows not operate with the key
in the "off" position *OR* with the key in the "off" position once the
driver's door has been opened. Most manufacturers choose simply to require
that the key be "on" for the power windows to work.

This requirement does not exist in Europe or Japan.

DS

Yeah, your gov't at work. A few stupid people don't supervise their kids
and we all have to suffer.

Al

 

[Robert L. Wilson]

Within a week of buying our '97 OBW I had modified the wiring so the power
windows work without the key. Could also make them work requiring key but in
either run or accessory position. Just took one wire with a push-on
connector
at each end, connected across leads formerly going to relay.
As to whether other cars let you run the windows without the keys, some do,
some require run position, some either run or accessories. I remember
specifically a rented Buick that did not require the keys at all. Of course
if they work without the keys and that is known (e.g. the Buick, where
presumably all of them did that, but not our Suby since others do not) then
a thief knows an easy way to break in: Just snake a coat-hanger wire in and
actuate the window switch. In recent decades manufacturers have redesigned
the lock buttons just so you can't actuate them by pulling with a wire.
Bob Wilson

 

[Gilles Gour]

Yeah, your gov't at work. A few stupid people don't supervise their kids
and we all have to suffer.

Al

Don't want to brag but I'm the proud owner of a 96 Brighton with
luxurious manualy operated windows and environmentally friendly AC
(just roll down the windows). It also has an automatic muscle
conditionner system (just bend forward or bacward and roll the passenger
side or back seat windows up or down).

 

[F. Plant]

snip

Thanks, hopefully I'll get time to look into this as it would be handy.

F. Plant

 

[Adam Helberg]

Within a week of buying our '97 OBW I had modified the wiring so the power
windows work without the key. Could also make them work requiring key but in
either run or accessory position. Just took one wire with a push-on
connector
at each end, connected across leads formerly going to relay.
As to whether other cars let you run the windows without the keys, some do,
some require run position, some either run or accessories. I remember
specifically a rented Buick that did not require the keys at all. Of course
if they work without the keys and that is known (e.g. the Buick, where
presumably all of them did that, but not our Suby since others do not) then
a thief knows an easy way to break in: Just snake a coat-hanger wire in and
actuate the window switch. In recent decades manufacturers have redesigned
the lock buttons just so you can't actuate them by pulling with a wire.
Bob Wilson

A compromise would be to allow power window operation with key in ACC position just
like the radio. When someone is left in the car I leave the keys in the ACC position
so they can listen to radio. They could then also operate the windows. Yet the car
would be secure with the keys out.

Adam

 

[Xtranet]

A compromise would be to allow power window operation with key in ACC position just
like the radio. When someone is left in the car I leave the keys in the ACC position
so they can listen to radio. They could then also operate the windows. Yet the car
would be secure with the keys out.

Adam

As someone else mentioned, I also didn't want to just jumper a wire because
the window relay will always be ON. The other thing is that the Forester's
window switches are lit when on and not controlled by the headlight switch.
This promotes even more power consumption.

I thought about these options above, but I went through the route of wiring
it so that I wouldn't need a key in the ignition because there were a lot of
days that I didn't want to squirm in to switch it to ACC.

Right now anytime I unlock or lock the doors, the windows would be enabled
for 15 seconds. I guess I could've added a switch, but I wanted it fully
automatic for disabling.

 

[Don.]

As someone else mentioned, I also didn't want to just jumper a wire because
the window relay will always be ON. The other thing is that the Forester's
window switches are lit when on and not controlled by the headlight switch.
This promotes even more power consumption.

I thought about these options above, but I went through the route of wiring
it so that I wouldn't need a key in the ignition because there were a lot of
days that I didn't want to squirm in to switch it to ACC.

Right now anytime I unlock or lock the doors, the windows would be enabled
for 15 seconds. I guess I could've added a switch, but I wanted it fully
automatic for disabling.

You sound like an "automotive electrician", something I've never been. ;-)
Any ideas on wiring changes to make the Cruise Control ON all the time?
That's way Porsche and BMW are, it's nice not to have to look down to turn
the blasted thing ON every time you shut off the ignition, only have to
press the lever to SET.

I tried with no success, seems it needs a time delay after the ignition
is turned on.

Don

 

[Xtranet]

You sound like an "automotive electrician", something I've never been. ;-)
Any ideas on wiring changes to make the Cruise Control ON all the time?
That's way Porsche and BMW are, it's nice not to have to look down to turn
the blasted thing ON every time you shut off the ignition, only have to
press the lever to SET.

I tried with no success, seems it needs a time delay after the ignition
is turned on.

I really can't help you unless I have a schematic or your car is a 03-04
Forester. Looking at the Forester, it looks like you only need to jumper
some pins for the 12V. Since, I've never tried it I can't verify the time
delay you spoke of. Sorry.

 

[Don.]

I really can't help you unless I have a schematic or your car is a 03-04
Forester. Looking at the Forester, it looks like you only need to jumper
some pins for the 12V. Since, I've never tried it I can't verify the time
delay you spoke of. Sorry.

It's an 04 OB, but it should be the same as the Forester. I tried that on
the dash switch and it didn't work unless I first turned on the ignition and
then applied a jumper to the 12V. ???

 

[Robert L. Wilson]

(I tried sending this as an emailed response, it did not seem to go
through...)
I agree that a time delay is needed. I have thought about this but not
worked actively on it. Here is what I would do, but it sounds as if you may
not have the equipment I would use to do it: I would use an oscilloscope to
see what it is the dash switch sends. I think it sends a pulse to one of the
computers, and in turn that computer "does" the cruise control in its spare
time. If I found, for example, that it sends a pulse 5 volts high and half a
second wide (totally made up, have not made the measurement!) then I would
design a circuit using something like a 556 linear IC that would note power
up, wait a moment, then send that pulse, every time power came on. The
circuit is really trivial, but I would not want to connect anything to that
lead until I knew exactly what to send. I think it could fry one of the
computers.
I say "one of the computers". I have not even looked closely to see what
there is in by way of computing equipment onboard. On our old '91 Voyager
there were several processors, one for the engine and one for the
transmission and one called the "body" computer that ran things like the
speedometer, and optionally one for the overhead console, etc., that were
linked by a serial current loop network. It might be that all of that is
combined into one in the Subys, cheap processors are now more powerful!
Bob Wilson

 

[Xtranet]

It's an 04 OB, but it should be the same as the Forester. I tried that on
the dash switch and it didn't work unless I first turned on the ignition and
then applied a jumper to the 12V. ???

I looked at the Forester schematic and from what I can gather it's similar
to what you had described, but I believe the delay that's needed is caused
by the internal cruise control circuitry. The cruise switch is just a momentary
switch.

If you need a delay, try using a series resistor/capacitor circuit. This
should give you the delay needed. For example:

1000uF & 10k or
100uF & 100k or
10uF & 1M will all give you around a 10s delay. You should use a capacitor
rated at around 25V.

Place the resistor across the pins that you jumpered. Place one end (if
polarized, the + end) of the cap to the pin that triggers the cruise (the
other pin should be constant 12V). The other end of the cap needs to go to
ground.

When you start the vehicle, 12V activates the cruise box, but the trigger pin
of the cruise box doesn't receive it's 12V until 10s (depending on the res/cap
combo) later.

Caveat: The cap fully charges to 12V in 10s. The problem is that I'm hoping
that when you turn off your vehicle, that 12V charge can discharge. The cruise
box, when off, can go into Hi-Z and probably keep the cap fully charged.