Drain plug washer...

[meld_b]

So does everyone replace this washer every single oil change? Anyone
have any other options? This is on a 02 Outback. Is the Subaru filter
really any better? It seems to be about double what I want to pay,
taking doing my oil change from a money saving task to a loosing adventure.

Man those fasteners that hold in the COVER over the oil filter are
pretty chincy... why they put phillips holes in them is beyond me those
aren't threads are they. After the first time it's not so bad.

-meld

 

[Rick Courtright]

So does everyone replace this washer every single oil change? Anyone
have any other options? This is on a 02 Outback. Is the Subaru filter
really any better? It seems to be about double what I want to pay,
taking doing my oil change from a money saving task to a loosing adventure.

Hi,

No, I don't replace the washer every oil change: I got some copper
washers from the auto parts store and they last several changes.

IMO the Subaru OEM filter IS somewhat better than many of the filters
out there. Not all perhaps, but do you want to do your own test? If you
think buying an OEM filter's a money loser (haven't figured your math
there...), you really don't want to buy a bunch of filters and then have
to swap 'em out early when you develop excessive valve train noise, low
oil pressure, etc. Some of us have already done that for you.

But, voice of experience from my car only, Bosch, Purolator (maker of
SOA filters), and Napa Gold have worked well for me, though they're only
a buck or so less than OEM. If you really want to go cheap, stop at
Wally World and get a Super Tech filter if it's available for your car
(only limited apps available.) It's made by Champion Labs, same as Bosch
and Mobil 1 among others, and claims a higher efficiency than either of
them. Best $2 filter I've ever used if one's into cheap. Get their Super
Tech oil, too, at about a buck a quart. If that doesn't beat the quickie
lubes on price, I don't know what will.

Rick

 

[ceraboy]

So does everyone replace this washer every single oil change? Anyone
have any other options? This is on a 02 Outback. Is the Subaru filter
really any better? It seems to be about double what I want to pay,
taking doing my oil change from a money saving task to a loosing
adventure.

Man those fasteners that hold in the COVER over the oil filter are
pretty chincy... why they put phillips holes in them is beyond me
those aren't threads are they. After the first time it's not so bad.

-meld

The drain washer is good for many, many oil changes. I have a 92
Subaru legacy with 190,000 miles still on the original drain plug &
washer without so much as a hint of a leak. The key is to make sure
the washer and mating surfaces on the sump are clean a free of debris.

On this same car I have been using the cheap $2 filters where ever I
can find them and I have never had a mechancial breakdown,
engine/valvetrain is quiet, and still gets as good of mileage, if not
better than stated on the manufacturer sticker. Just dont be fooled
into thinking a premium or OEM filter will last for 10,000miles without
a change. Oil filtration is only one part of the puzzle; viscosity
breakdown, gasoline blowby, etc... all deteriorate engine oil
properties.

 

[Henry Paul]

I have a '96 Impreza. I am not the original owner, but I am still using the
drain plug that was there when I bought it.

I am currently using Mobil 1 synthetic 10w30 oil and a Fram X2 filter rated
for 7k miles (about $12). I have also used the cheap Fram filters in the
past with good results. You can get them at AutoZone and Checker. I think
they run ~$3 or so a piece now.

 

[Skweezieweezie]

I have to replace the washer each time in
my H6. It drips all over the place unless I
grunt it so tight you need a breaker bar to
get it loose the next time.

 

[Edward Hayes]

The washers so inexpensive I just do it and move on with my life to more
interesting things. ed

 

[meld_b]

Thanks for all the input folks... The local dealer only charges $16.50
for the change and tops off other fluids and uses Castrol oil which at
my local K-mart is still $2.17/qt. So with tax at the $6.50 they charge
me for the filter and the $1.02 for the washer I'm sitting at $17.37...
That's my math! And I have to deal with all the disposal.

I see the filter now has a x over a icon of a dumpster... so what am I
supposed to do with it!??

-meld

 

[Aaron M]

A lot of auto parts stores will recycle your used oil and filters.
Although I do think that they probably charge you a small fee for the
service.

 

[ceraboy]

A lot of auto parts stores will recycle your used oil and filters.
Although I do think that they probably charge you a small fee for the
service.

I have been changing oil myself from Cleveland to Seattle and so far
every auto parts store I have run into will recycle oil for free. Of
course they usually cap your disposal at 5 gallons per month to keep
the mechanics away, but for the home mechanic this is no problem.

 

[Rick Courtright]

I see the filter now has a x over a icon of a dumpster... so what am I
supposed to do with it!??

I haven't see this icon yet. Where is it? On the filter box, at the
store or what? As others have said, many if not most auto parts stores
will take your old oil, many will also take filters. Ask about both and
any charges. Mine don't charge for oil--in California there's already a
fee "built in" to the price of each quart of oil to cover recycling. I
don't know about filters: according to the EPA last time I looked, if
they're "hot drained," which I imagine means drained as soon as they're
removed from the engine, they're not considered haz-mat and can be
disposed of in the regular trash. Check your local regs... what I'd
imagine the icon's all about is to keep people from just dumping full
filters in the trash.

But since your dealer already beats your DIY price, just let him take
care of it all!

Rick

 

[y_p_w]

meld_b wrote:




I haven't see this icon yet. Where is it? On the filter box, at the
store or what? As others have said, many if not most auto parts stores
will take your old oil, many will also take filters. Ask about both and
any charges. Mine don't charge for oil--in California there's already a
fee "built in" to the price of each quart of oil to cover recycling. I
don't know about filters: according to the EPA last time I looked, if
they're "hot drained," which I imagine means drained as soon as they're
removed from the engine, they're not considered haz-mat and can be
disposed of in the regular trash. Check your local regs... what I'd
imagine the icon's all about is to keep people from just dumping full
filters in the trash.

But since your dealer already beats your DIY price, just let him take
care of it all!

Many cities in California accept oil filters as part of their
recycling programs.

<http://www.ci.san-bernardino.ca.us/EP/used_oil_&_filters.htm>

My hometown of El Cerrito doesn't have curbside recycling of used
oil or filters. However - we do have a recycling center with an
oil tank and a big 55 gallon drum for filters.

<http://www.ecrecycling.org/center.htm>

As for used oil filters - I don't believe it's legal to dispose
of them in the trash - at least not in California. I took a look
at the California code, and they do say small amounts of "soiled
textiles" (clothes, rags, etc) may be disposed of or laundered
normally.

As for the washer - they're too cheap not to replace. The OEM
washer is made of formed sheet metal, so I doubt they would work
more than once. A copper or aluminum one MIGHT work several times,
but I don't care to try.

 

[Rick Courtright]

As for used oil filters - I don't believe it's legal to dispose
of them in the trash - at least not in California. I took a look
at the California code, and they do say small amounts of "soiled

As with so much of California law, our legislators too often mandate
behaviors that are not possible to comply with due using current
technologies and methodologies. Case in point is what to do with your
old oil filters. Somewhere in the California Health and Safety Code, the
State classifies them as "household hazardous waste" (assuming they're
generated in a household setting, not a business setting) since
Sacramento doesn't feel the Federal regs protect California's citizens
adequately. Ok, so what to do with them? Hmmmm... now the Legislature
discovers this gem:

"CALIFORNIA CODES
HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 25218-25218.12

25218. The Legislature hereby finds and declares all of the
following:
(a) Residential households which generate household hazardous
waste and conditionally exempt small quantity generators which
generate small amounts of hazardous waste in the state need an
appropriate and economic means of disposing of the hazardous waste
they generate."

A few paragraphs along, they come to this brilliant conclusion:

"(c) To facilitate and increase the collection of household
hazardous waste and conditionally exempt small quantity generator
waste, it is the responsibility of the state to provide for an
expedited and streamlined permitting and regulatory structure for
household hazardous waste and conditionally exempt small quantity
generator waste collection and handling. Overburdensome regulations
defeat the objectives of providing convenient and accessible
collection facilities and the protection of public health and safety."

From there they proceed to enumerate rather burdensome regulations
concerning the establishment of collection centers and their operations,
regulations that stifle anyone who wishes to set up such a center! (Case
in point--I have a client who transports used tires from tire shops to a
recycler. It took several MONTHS to get all the permits required to
simply stop at the tire shop, toss a dozen tires in the back of his
pickup, and drive them to the center! And that's before all the
paperwork each time he does this.) And they wonder why people throw
their trash any old where?

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for recycling, and have been for years,
under the condition that it's convenient and economically sound for me
to do so, a mentality which the Legislature has apparently finally
figured out. But if the State or any other entity is going to try to
mandate my recycling behavior, it's incumbent upon them to make it
possible for me to behave as they wish me to under the previous
conditions. If one lives in an area that has oil filter recycling,
either thru curbside pickup, a community pickup center, or cooperating
private businesses (like the auto parts stores), then by all means
recycle those filters. OTOH, if such a service is not readily available
(and I don't consider having to drive an hour to get rid of an oil
filter as being readily available, which was the case until just
recently in my community), I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep by following
EPA guidelines, draining the filter and tossing it in the trash!

Opinions will vary.

Rick

 

[Richard Chang]

So does everyone replace this washer every single oil change?

I paid $16 for 30 washers and chalked it up to the cost of buying a
Subaru. I figure at approximately 2 oil changes a year, it will last me
15 years. If the car lasts that long, I will happily shell out another
$16.

I don't save much money (if any) changing the oil myself. It is my
twice a year opportunity to poke my head under the hood and say "I
wonder what that is?"

-R,

 

[Hallraker]

I don't save much money (if any) changing the oil myself. It is my
twice a year opportunity to poke my head under the hood and say "I
wonder what that is?"

I wish I lived where you do. Around here most oil changes seem to be
$15-$25, although I've seen some $10 places in shady-looking areas.
Depending on the quality and quantity of oil and filter(s), I can DIY for
$6-$14. That $10 is a lot of ramen for a college student like me. (Not
that I would ever use the $2 filter and 99 cent oil that would yield the $6
oil change.)

Back to the original thread topic, I've found that I can use the crush
washer a total of two times. After that, it's just been deformed too much
and doesn't seal right. I found that a good portion of my oil leak is
actually coming from that stupid drain plug.

-Matt

 

[Gilles Gour]

I paid $16 for 30 washers and chalked it up to the cost of buying a
Subaru. I figure at approximately 2 oil changes a year, it will last me
15 years. If the car lasts that long, I will happily shell out another
$16.

I don't save much money (if any) changing the oil myself. It is my
twice a year opportunity to poke my head under the hood and say "I
wonder what that is?"

-R,

Add to that the fact that you KNOW the job has been done right. That's
priceless.
You can also buy a Fumoto valve (I did and never will look back...) and
never again have to remove a drain plug and replace a plug washer. Much
neater also.
Gilles

 

[y_p_w]

y_p_w wrote:




As with so much of California law, our legislators too often mandate
behaviors that are not possible to comply with due using current
technologies and methodologies. Case in point is what to do with your
old oil filters. Somewhere in the California Health and Safety Code, the
State classifies them as "household hazardous waste" (assuming they're
generated in a household setting, not a business setting) since
Sacramento doesn't feel the Federal regs protect California's citizens
adequately. Ok, so what to do with them? Hmmmm... now the Legislature
discovers this gem:

"CALIFORNIA CODES
HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 25218-25218.12

25218. The Legislature hereby finds and declares all of the
following:
(a) Residential households which generate household hazardous
waste and conditionally exempt small quantity generators which
generate small amounts of hazardous waste in the state need an
appropriate and economic means of disposing of the hazardous waste
they generate."

A few paragraphs along, they come to this brilliant conclusion:

"(c) To facilitate and increase the collection of household
hazardous waste and conditionally exempt small quantity generator
waste, it is the responsibility of the state to provide for an
expedited and streamlined permitting and regulatory structure for
household hazardous waste and conditionally exempt small quantity
generator waste collection and handling. Overburdensome regulations
defeat the objectives of providing convenient and accessible
collection facilities and the protection of public health and safety."

From there they proceed to enumerate rather burdensome regulations
concerning the establishment of collection centers and their operations,
regulations that stifle anyone who wishes to set up such a center! (Case
in point--I have a client who transports used tires from tire shops to a
recycler. It took several MONTHS to get all the permits required to
simply stop at the tire shop, toss a dozen tires in the back of his
pickup, and drive them to the center! And that's before all the
paperwork each time he does this.) And they wonder why people throw
their trash any old where?

Don't get me wrong: I'm all for recycling, and have been for years,
under the condition that it's convenient and economically sound for me
to do so, a mentality which the Legislature has apparently finally
figured out. But if the State or any other entity is going to try to
mandate my recycling behavior, it's incumbent upon them to make it
possible for me to behave as they wish me to under the previous
conditions. If one lives in an area that has oil filter recycling,
either thru curbside pickup, a community pickup center, or cooperating
private businesses (like the auto parts stores), then by all means
recycle those filters. OTOH, if such a service is not readily available
(and I don't consider having to drive an hour to get rid of an oil
filter as being readily available, which was the case until just
recently in my community), I wouldn't lose a minute's sleep by following
EPA guidelines, draining the filter and tossing it in the trash!

Opinions will vary.

Well - I live in a major metropolitan area. We have a municipal
recycling center. As I was driving to lunch today, I noticed a
sign at a quickie lube place indicating that they accept used oil
filters. We have a regional hazardous waste facility that serves
half the county. I dispose of my used auto fluids and oil rags
there. They also take used oil or filters, but I have closer
alternatives. It takes a small bit of research to find where these
places are, but anyone who lives reasonably near even small cities
in California are within easy driving distances of these facilities.

I hate to think people in remote areas are dumping oil in their
backyards. Such areas likely rely on well water, and I understand
that it takes very little used oil to (at the very least) noticeably
affect the taste of drinking water.

 

[Richard Chang]

I don't save much money (if any) changing the oil myself. It is my
twice a year opportunity to poke my head under the hood and say "I
wonder what that is?"

I wish I lived where you do. Around here most oil changes seem to be
$15-$25, although I've seen some $10 places in shady-looking areas.
Depending on the quality and quantity of oil and filter(s), I can DIY for
$6-$14. [...]

I don't save money because I put in Mobil-1. Five quarts of that stuff
is already $20+. Toss in a premium filter and we're getting close to
$30. We're not even going to into the cost of my time to change the oil,
drive to the dump for disposal, ...

-R.

 

[meld_b]

That valve sounds like a good idea... Any experience with how the dealer
would react if I still had them do an oil change. They wouldn't put in a
factory plug and washer and charge me would they?

That's pretty pricey for those washers... OK so I've become cheap! The
folks over at SAAB use a copper washer that I've been reusing for years
without a leak, but someone said I really should heat the washer up
until it's red hot and plunge it in water... interesting. Having the
dealer do most of the oil changes is sounding better all the time.

-meld

I paid $16 for 30 washers and chalked it up to the cost of buying a
Subaru. I figure at approximately 2 oil changes a year, it will last
me 15 years. If the car lasts that long, I will happily shell out
another $16.

I don't save much money (if any) changing the oil myself. It is my
twice a year opportunity to poke my head under the hood and say "I
wonder what that is?"

-R,

Add to that the fact that you KNOW the job has been done right. That's
priceless.
You can also buy a Fumoto valve (I did and never will look back...) and
never again have to remove a drain plug and replace a plug washer. Much
neater also.
Gilles[/QUOTE]

 

[ceraboy]

That valve sounds like a good idea... Any experience with how the
dealer would react if I still had them do an oil change. They
wouldn't put in a factory plug and washer and charge me would they?

That's pretty pricey for those washers... OK so I've become cheap!
The folks over at SAAB use a copper washer that I've been reusing for
years without a leak, but someone said I really should heat the
washer up until it's red hot and plunge it in water... interesting.
Having the dealer do most of the oil changes is sounding better all
the time.

-meld

Sump temperatures can easily exceed 212F during extended or demanding
operation. The recrystallization temperature of copper is approx 250F
(this corresponds to complete recrystallization after 1hr). Over a
3month cycle the copper will have recrystallized, hence regaining its
ductile properties. Further copper does not have the same type of
hardening behavior as steel so quenching it will do nothing for you.
In short, dont worry about reusing the copper washer immediately time
and time again unless you are particularly strong armed on the breaker
bar.

 

[Rick Courtright]

That's pretty pricey for those washers... OK so I've become cheap! The
folks over at SAAB use a copper washer that I've been reusing for years

Not sure what the definition of pricey is when we're talking about $25k
or more worth of equipment we're trying to protect! For me, a buck for a
washer here and there, or an extra buck for a factory filter over an
aftermarket's not something to worry about, but I know people who do
just that!

Anyway, on copper washers: I've been using them since the days of
air-cooled VWs with good results. One of my Bugs had the original washer
when it hit 100k miles (like Hallraker, I was a starving student once,
too!) It was pretty thin, but still sealed ok... and, yes, I do change
them more frequently today. No need to do any "homemade heat treating"
on them, though. Just clean the plug, washer and pan surface as someone
already suggested, then torque to spec (that's important.) Fill with
fresh oil and drive happy! It's time for a new washer when you start
noticing any seepage at the plug, which IME is generally long before you
even get a drip, so there's a good safety margin.

Rick