Chains required??

T

timscramstad

I have just bought a new Subaru OB 3.0. I notice in the owners manual I
cannot use chains on the stock all weather tires due to clearance
limitations.

Am I not required to have/use chains because of the AWD, or am I expected to
have another set of tires/wheels with chains if I plan on being where chains
are required?

Thanks,

Tim
 
It depends on your state laws...

In Oregon, chains mean 'traction devices'. That means chains on two
wheel drive, on 4WD or AWD, then having having the proper tires is
enough. All season doesn't qualify, I believe they have to be M+S
rated.

Depending on your state, YMMV...

Jack
 
It depends on your state laws...

In Oregon, chains mean 'traction devices'. That means chains on two
wheel drive, on 4WD or AWD, then having having the proper tires is
enough. All season doesn't qualify, I believe they have to be M+S
rated.

Depending on your state, YMMV...

Jack

manual I cannot use chains on the stock all weather tires due to clearance
expected to have another set of tires/wheels with chains if I plan on being where
chains are required?

Good point! If you can't install chains on a vehicle due to it's
design apparently there are just roads you can't drive on. I hope I
never have to run into this situation. I do run M+S all season tires.
The tire chains are a big No-No acording to the owners manual. In my
situation, there is no way I would want a tire chain on my tires.
There just isn't enough clearance.
BlueSTi
"Scary-Fast"
 
Thanks for the replies. In addition:

I talked with the service manager from my dealer in California, ( a skier.)
He says the stock tires at least on the OB are designated M/S for mud and
snow and the since it is all wheel drive, chains are not required in Ca.
(Unfortunately, the CHP officer I talked to said they were required no
matter the car.)

I did not realize this is state specific, so if we have any California
skiers, whats your experience with chains and your Subaru.

thanks again,

Tim
 
my 98 forester manual says chains on front tires only. havent experienced a
situation where chains were required "no exceptions". that is not very
common.
 
my 98 forester manual says chains on front tires only. havent experienced a
situation where chains were required "no exceptions". that is not very
common.


'05 Forester (USA) here, and the manual states front wheels only, and
to use SAE Class "S" chains due to the clearances.

Security Chain Company, who manufactures traction devices, and runs
the website:

http://www.scc-chain.com/Pages Traction/traction.html

has lots of traction information, along with several types of cable
and link chains that meet the SAE Type "S" requirements.



This website is from CALTRANS and designates the three types of chain
controls that may be in effect. Note that in R2 areas, chains must be
carried in 4WD vehicles, and in R3 areas, chains are required on all
vehicles without exception.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/chcontrl.htm

From the California Vehicle Code:
27459. No person shall operate any motor vehicle, trailer or
semitrailer upon any portion of a highway without tire traction
devices when that portion of the highway is signed for the
requirement of tire traction devices. In any case where a passenger
vehicle or motortruck having an unladen weight of 6,000 pounds or
less may be required by the Department of Transportation or local
authorities to be equipped with tire traction devices, the devices
shall be placed on at least two drive wheels, or the department or
local authorities may provide, in the alternative, that the vehicle
may be equipped with snow-tread tires on at least two drive wheels
when the weather and surface conditions at the time are such that the
stopping, tractive, and cornering abilities of the snow-tread tires
are adequate. The snow-tread tires shall be of a type and design
manufactured for use on snow as a replacement for tire chains or tire
traction devices, shall be in good condition, and shall bear the
marking of M-S, M/S, or other marking indicating that the tire was
manufactured for use on snow, or, in the case of tires purchased
before January 1, 1987, shall either bear the markings or, in the
opinion of the inspecting officer, comply with the tread pattern
requirements of Section 558.


All in all, it looks like it depends on the highway, local
jurisdiction, and the judgement of the CHP/LE officer.
 
Found this info at http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/chcontrl.htm. Guess
that answers the question for my home state of California

thanks all,

Tim

Types of Chain Controls
During the winter months motorists may encounter traction device controls in
the mountain areas of California. When chain controls are established signs
along side the road will be opened indicating the type of requirement. There
are three requirements in California.

Requirement One (R1): Chains are required, snow tires are allowed.

Requirement Two (R2): Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel
drive vehicles
with snow tires on all four wheels.
(NOTE: Four wheel drive vehicles must carry traction devices in chain
control areas)

Requirement Three (R3): Chains are required on all vehicles, no exceptions.
 
It depends on your state laws...

In Oregon, chains mean 'traction devices'. That means chains on two
wheel drive, on 4WD or AWD, then having having the proper tires is
enough. All season doesn't qualify, I believe they have to be M+S
rated.

All-season tires are M+S rated. If there is no M+S marking on
the side, the tires are not all-season.
 
I have just bought a new Subaru OB 3.0. I notice in the owners manual I
cannot use chains on the stock all weather tires due to clearance
limitations.

Am I not required to have/use chains because of the AWD, or am I expected to
have another set of tires/wheels with chains if I plan on being where chains
are required?

Thanks,

Tim
Here is an exceprt from the NEVADA regulations:

Please note NRS 484.6432, sub para 2 which exempts 4WD vehicles from
needing chains if snow tires are installed on all 4 wheels.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NRS 484.643 Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires: Use
required where highway marked or posted.

1. It is unlawful for any person to operate a motor vehicle,
whether it is an emergency vehicle or otherwise, without traction
devices, tire chains or snow tires upon any street or highway, under
icy or snowy conditions, when the highway is marked or posted with
signs for the requirement of traction devices, chains or snow tires.

2. The Director shall adopt regulations defining “traction
device,” “tire chain” and “snow tire.” The Director shall consider
regulations of the Federal Highway Administration and the National
Highway Traffic Safety Administration and publications of the Rubber
Manufacturers Association. The regulations must specify minimum
standards for patterns of tread on snow tires which will provide
adequate traction in mud and snow.

[1.6:166:1925; added 1955, 630]—(NRS A 1957, 336; 1981, 866;
1985, 643; 1987, 1344; 1989, 1051)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NRS 484.6432 Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires:
Requirements under certain circumstances.

1. If a highway in this state is marked or posted with signs
requiring the use of traction devices, tire chains or snow tires, a
motor vehicle or combination of vehicles must be equipped with:

(a) Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires if it has a
gross weight or combined gross weight of 10,000 pounds or less.

(b) Tire chains if it has a gross weight or combined gross
weight of more than 10,000 pounds.

2. If a highway in this state is marked or posted with signs
requiring the use of traction devices or tire chains on all motor
vehicles except vehicles with 4-wheel drive and snow tires on all
wheels, all such motor vehicles must be equipped with traction devices
or tire chains.

(Added to NRS by 1987, 1342; A 1989, 1051)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NRS 484.6434 Traction devices, tire chains or snow tires:
Installation and mounting. If a motor vehicle is required to be
equipped with traction devices, tire chains or snow tires, the devices
or chains must be installed or the tires must be mounted on at least
two:

1. Driving wheels of the motor vehicle; and

2. Braking wheels of any trailing vehicle in a combination of
vehicles if that trailing vehicle is equipped or required to be
equipped with brakes.

(Added to NRS by 1987, 1343; A 1989, 1052)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
timscramstad said:
Types of Chain Controls [...]
Requirement One (R1): Chains are required, snow tires are allowed.
Requirement Two (R2): Chains are required on all vehicles except four wheel
drive vehicles with snow tires on all four wheels.
Requirement Three (R3): Chains are required on all vehicles, no exceptions.

This has been discussed here about a year ago.

The consensus then appeared to be that if R1 or R2 is declared,
AWD with M+S is "ok", and that CHP usually just close the road,
rather then declare R3.

For example, current Truckee/Tahoe closures (lots of current snow):
http://www.dot.ca.gov/cgi-bin/roadlt
shows either complete closures, or (shouting theirs)

CHAINS ARE REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES EXCEPT 4-WHEEL-DRIVE VEHICLES
WITH SNOW TIRES ON ALL 4 WHEELS

Cheers,
 
David said:
All-season tires are M+S rated. If there is no M+S marking on
the side, the tires are not all-season.

More likely than not. I do remember the term "All-Season" in
common usage before the "M+S" (mud and snow) markings were used.
Apparently the M+S standard was set by the Rubber Manufacturers
of America.

That being said, I would think that the majority of M+S marked
tires meet a minimum (but not necessarily ideal) standard for snow
traction. If I were going to do a lot of driving in the snow, I
would use purpose-built snow tires.

I found the following:

<http://www.racelinecentral.com/tires_sidewall.html>

It defines "All-Season" as an M+S rated tire without the noise
and rolling resistance of a traditional "deep-lug" winter tire.
The RMA also has a newer "Severe Snow Conditions-Rated"
designation, which supposedly carries a snowflake symbol on the
sidewall. This is supposed to represent a tire with better snow
traction than the basic M+S standard.

I looked up several of the Tire Rack's winter tire offerings in
my car's stock size (205/55R16). These tires carry the "severe
snow conditions" rating and "snowflake on a mountain" symbol:

Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25
Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50
Dunlop SP Winter Sport M2
Dunlop SP Winter Sport M3
Dunlop Graspic DS-2
Pirelli Winter 210 SnowSport
Pirelli Winter Carving (who thinks up these names?)

I would think that the various winter driving regulations might
be modified with this newer standard in place.
 
'05 Forester (USA) here, and the manual states front wheels only, and
to use SAE Class "S" chains due to the clearances.

Security Chain Company, who manufactures traction devices, and runs
the website:

http://www.scc-chain.com/Pages Traction/traction.html

has lots of traction information, along with several types of cable
and link chains that meet the SAE Type "S" requirements.



This website is from CALTRANS and designates the three types of chain
controls that may be in effect. Note that in R2 areas, chains must be
carried in 4WD vehicles, and in R3 areas, chains are required on all
vehicles without exception.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/roadinfo/chcontrl.htm

From the California Vehicle Code:
27459. No person shall operate any motor vehicle, trailer or
semitrailer upon any portion of a highway without tire traction
devices when that portion of the highway is signed for the
requirement of tire traction devices. In any case where a passenger
vehicle or motortruck having an unladen weight of 6,000 pounds or
less may be required by the Department of Transportation or local
authorities to be equipped with tire traction devices, the devices
shall be placed on at least two drive wheels, or the department or
local authorities may provide, in the alternative, that the vehicle
may be equipped with snow-tread tires on at least two drive wheels
when the weather and surface conditions at the time are such that the
stopping, tractive, and cornering abilities of the snow-tread tires
are adequate. The snow-tread tires shall be of a type and design
manufactured for use on snow as a replacement for tire chains or tire
traction devices, shall be in good condition, and shall bear the
marking of M-S, M/S, or other marking indicating that the tire was
manufactured for use on snow, or, in the case of tires purchased
before January 1, 1987, shall either bear the markings or, in the
opinion of the inspecting officer, comply with the tread pattern
requirements of Section 558.


All in all, it looks like it depends on the highway, local
jurisdiction, and the judgement of the CHP/LE officer.
Here is the Traction device page from the Nevada DOT
http://www.nevadadot.com/traveler/pdfs/tractionControl.pdf
 

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